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Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off #193273 01/14/09 03:18 PM 01/14/09 03:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 2,073 Tulsa, Ok WadeMetzinger OP top fuel
WadeMetzinger OP top fuel Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 2,073 Tulsa, Ok	I'd like to move the battery to the trunk of my wife '68 Cuda but since it's also a street car I do not want to put a shut off on the back of the car. It's my understanding that there is an IHRA/NHRA rule requiring one but I was wondering if there was also and ET break for when it's required or does it not matter what ET, if you have it in the trunk you have to have an external shut off? Wade Metzinger 918-809-0987 71 Cuda 9.28@145 -1s, Pglide 68 Cuda 10.64@124 1.45 60's 318->390 eddys Moparts discount code on WIX - moparts www.Filter1.com

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: WadeMetzinger] #193274 01/14/09 03:22 PM 01/14/09 03:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 146 michigan tonycpe member
tonycpe member Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 146 michigan	Batt relocated to trunk = rear shut off for all power . you knew you knew the answer. Old Fogey Racing Ltd.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: WadeMetzinger] #193275 01/14/09 03:30 PM 01/14/09 03:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,178 Indy FlyFish super stock
FlyFish super stock Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,178 Indy	Yes you have to have one. On my 67 cuda its right through the center of my license plate. 67 Barracuda street car, 408, e85, 1.38 60', 6.44 @105.9 in the 1/8 mile, 10.19 @130.5 in the 1/4...so far....

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: FlyFish] #193276 01/14/09 03:36 PM 01/14/09 03:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 5,314 Carstairs, Alberta, Canada dave571 master
dave571 master Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 5,314 Carstairs, Alberta, Canada	What most guys who are opposed to the look do, is use a push pull type of switch. then you run the rod for the knob/switch through a small hole in whatver part you like.(a lense or behind the plate, or whatever) Then, when not in use just unthread the rod, and put it in the glove box.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: dave571] #193277 01/14/09 03:38 PM 01/14/09 03:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,080 organ M maximum entropy master
maximum entropy master M Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,080 organ	not only do you have to have a shut off at the back of the car, but the battery needs to be in an nhra approved box vented to the out side, or you need a rear firewall. bolted down with minimum 3/8 studs x2. Last edited by maximum entropy; 01/14/09 03:41 PM. for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: dave571] #193278 01/14/09 03:39 PM 01/14/09 03:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	Also need a metal fire wall between the trunk area and the passenger compartment.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: dave571] #193279 01/14/09 03:41 PM 01/14/09 03:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington T Triple Threat master
Triple Threat master T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington	There are ways to make it easier and less conspicuous on a street car. Through the license plate, under a tail light. My car is just as much of a street car as a race car, With glass bumpers I said screw it and just mounted it in the bumper as normal. The handle is close to body color though so it doesn't stick out quite as much. Never been hassled in tech about it either. -Dustin 67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi 68 Barracuda 340 F/SA

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: dave571] #193280 01/14/09 06:16 PM 01/14/09 06:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH	Quote: What most guys who are opposed to the look do, is use a push pull type of switch. then you run the rod for the knob/switch through a small hole in whatver part you like.(a lense or behind the plate, or whatever) Then, when not in use just unthread the rod, and put it in the glove box. That is a great Idea. I used a push/pull on Gina's car and was concerned about someone bumping it while we were driving on the street. I used one of the existing hole in the bumper to put the rod through. If you have any it's an alternative to drilling into the body. I did have to ream it a little larger. But, if you take the rod out, you'll never notice.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: WadeMetzinger] #193281 01/14/09 07:09 PM 01/14/09 07:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 30,992 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 30,992 Oregon	It depends on the track and how fast the car is. The local track here doesn't require an external shut off even though the rules require it. I've had my car thru tech several times and the tech guy has never been concerned about my lack of an external shut off. He looked over my trunk mounted battery closely and examined the straps that hold it down and then said I was good to go.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: AndyF] #193282 01/14/09 10:35 PM 01/14/09 10:35 PM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 902 Gilbert, AZ A Aspen7695 super stock
Aspen7695 super stock A Joined: May 2003 Posts: 902 Gilbert, AZ	Obviously the tech inspectors at your track don't know what they are doing, or they are too lazy to do the job they are trained to do. Just because they are not following the rules does not excuse you from following them. You obviously know better. Do you even have a rear firewall? I don't mean to be a fanatic, but I am a certified NHRA tech and I take the job personally. Raul

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: Aspen7695] #193283 01/14/09 10:48 PM 01/14/09 10:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,263 Southwestern Ontario Canada racealittle pro stock
racealittle pro stock Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,263 Southwestern Ontario Canada	What about the newer Chrysler products that come with the battery factory mounted in the trunk? I've seen them running at the track without a shutoff switch or a battery box. Too many cars, too many parts, too little coin, too little space to work in, too little time left to make it all happen! Update: down to one ride, still too many parts, a little more jingle in the pocket, gaining space, and it's going to happen this year!

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: racealittle] #193284 01/14/09 11:07 PM 01/14/09 11:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,537 PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA superwrench master
superwrench master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,537 PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA	Quote: What about the newer Chrysler products that come with the battery factory mounted in the trunk? I've seen them running at the track without a shutoff switch or a battery box. Ah-Ha!!! A can of worms here???

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: superwrench] #193285 01/14/09 11:12 PM 01/14/09 11:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	Quote: Quote: What about the newer Chrysler products that come with the battery factory mounted in the trunk? I've seen them running at the track without a shutoff switch or a battery box. Ah-Ha!!! A can of worms here??? IIRC, it's required IF you move the battery from the factory location. No worms on the loose

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: racealittle] #193286 01/14/09 11:13 PM 01/14/09 11:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	Quote: What about the newer Chrysler products that come with the battery factory mounted in the trunk? I've seen them running at the track without a shutoff switch or a battery box. Don't need a box.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: RobX4406] #193287 01/14/09 11:23 PM 01/14/09 11:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,863 Colorado Leadfoot master
Leadfoot master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,863 Colorado	Does killing "All" power mean it kills the engine and it will not crank either? I can't think of a way to do it with a single set of contacts like most switches that I've seen. I've never put a lot of thought into it either.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: Leadfoot] #193288 01/14/09 11:30 PM 01/14/09 11:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	Not hard to do. All you have to do is to run the alternator battery wire to the + side of the battery or the shut off switch. Then when the switch is turned to off it kills the battery flow that energizes the alternator. A lot of people also hook in a Ford type solenoid but it is not needed to kill the power.

Post deleted by Defbob [Re: Leadfoot] #193289 01/14/09 11:32 PM 01/14/09 11:32 PM
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Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut #193290 01/15/09 12:06 AM 01/15/09 12:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 807 Toronto, Canada D dirtybee super stock
dirtybee super stock D Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 807 Toronto, Canada	i'm trying to figure this out too. so duster dave where does the big pos battery cable go to? the cold side of the switch?

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: dirtybee] #193291 01/15/09 12:11 AM 01/15/09 12:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,863 Colorado Leadfoot master
Leadfoot master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,863 Colorado	So now we have three wires going from the trunk to the front. 1 Big one and 2 little ones. Alternator and battery go to the left side and out the right side we go to the starter with the big one and the relay with the little one. I think I get it now.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: Leadfoot] #193292 01/15/09 12:13 AM 01/15/09 12:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 807 Toronto, Canada D dirtybee super stock
dirtybee super stock D Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 807 Toronto, Canada	wha? i got to go to bed but i've been trying to figure out how to make my 2 post moroso shut off switch work ever since i bought it over a year ago soi'll check back in 2morrow. thx, dave Last edited by dirtybee; 01/15/09 12:19 AM.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: dirtybee] #193293 01/15/09 12:38 AM 01/15/09 12:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	Some don't like to run the continuous duty relay for the alternator. I like to run the alternator to one because when the switch gets thrown, there are NONE, ZERO, ZIP, NADA hot wires beyond the cut off and the relay. Nothing hot outside the trunk. Running the alt + to the battery keeps that line live at all times. For those playing along at home requiring a visual:

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: Leadfoot] #193294 01/15/09 02:22 AM 01/15/09 02:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 30,992 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 30,992 Oregon	Quote: Does killing "All" power mean it kills the engine and it will not crank either? I can't think of a way to do it with a single set of contacts like most switches that I've seen. I've never put a lot of thought into it either. The easy way to do it is to put the switch on the negative side of the bat. But evidently the tech guys at NHRA aren't smart enough to allow that logical solution so they insist on the switch being on the positive side. Having the switch on the positive side causes several issues with the charging circuit but NHRA refuses to open their mind.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: AndyF] #193295 01/15/09 03:16 AM 01/15/09 03:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere S smokinwoody I Live Here
smokinwoody I Live Here S Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere	Quote: Quote: Does killing "All" power mean it kills the engine and it will not crank either? I can't think of a way to do it with a single set of contacts like most switches that I've seen. I've never put a lot of thought into it either. The easy way to do it is to put the switch on the negative side of the bat. But evidently the tech guys at NHRA aren't smart enough to allow that logical solution so they insist on the switch being on the positive side. Having the switch on the positive side causes several issues with the charging circuit but NHRA refuses to open their mind. that being said...whenever I was tech inspected at any NHRA event,they would have me start the car then they would turn off the switch making sure the engine and all electrical would shut off..I dont recall any of them checking the battery leads or source except whether or not the battery was in a box(no firewall needed) or open and if there was a cell(firewall needed).. so..yes switching the negative is the best way..and easiest..but not allowed

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: smokinwoody] #193296 01/15/09 07:36 AM 01/15/09 07:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	Quote: the battery was in a box(no firewall needed) or open and if there was a cell(firewall needed).. so..yes switching the negative is the best way..and easiest.. Fire wall still needed if fuel cell is in the trunck area and also the box needs to be NHRA approve for that. Not just a battery box like a marine use box.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: MoparforLife] #193297 01/15/09 10:13 AM 01/15/09 10:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
WILD BILL Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH	IIRC the rules state that the switch must be on the POS side of the battery. I don't have a rule book with me right now so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: WILD BILL] #193298 01/15/09 10:32 AM 01/15/09 10:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 371 Fort Worth, Texas Mike Miller enthusiast
Mike Miller enthusiast Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 371 Fort Worth, Texas	According to the NHRA rule book.... The switch must be on the positive side and stop ALL electrical fuctions. This is to shut the engine off and prevent fires from shorted wires after an accident, the same reason you always see the fire department cut the battery cables on a car after a collision hard enough to damage wiring. Why is it that a rule is put in place for your safety and then people have to try to find a way around it? These switches are a no brainer to hook up. Take the cable coming from the battery to one side of the switch, connect the other side to everything else (thru the starter relay or whatever).

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: Mike Miller] #193299 01/15/09 12:32 PM 01/15/09 12:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 125 Loganville, GA S Stewart member
Stewart member S Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 125 Loganville, GA	How many times have you gotten into the car and realized the switch is in the off position? I put the switch on the driver side rollbar tube that runs from the top of the main loop to the rear of the car. Then a long rod or a chute cable can be mounted right above your head so you can also operate the switch from inside the car. If you have a problem on the track, your the first one there, so you can kill your own power.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: Stewart] #193300 01/15/09 05:31 PM 01/15/09 05:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 549 Bristol, Va fasteddie mopar
fasteddie mopar Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 549 Bristol, Va	Stewart, what if you are knocked out? The switch must accessable from the back of the car so track personnel can cut power. The switch must be on the positive side because if it is on the negative side and in a crash the neg. cable is cut or chafed it will provide a ground making the switch useless. Call Mark at Mad electrical 559-539-7128 he will sell you all you need to do it right. Website is www.madelectrical.com I followed his instructions and have had no problems at all. The switch can be on the main positive cable but I had a hot start problem with mine wired that way. Mark's way of wiring it solved all that and is NHRA legal too. 2003 Bristol Dragway Sportsman Champion 2016 Bristol Dragway Power Hour Champion

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: fasteddie] #193301 01/15/09 06:13 PM 01/15/09 06:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,852 KENTUCKY 69CHARGERMD master
69CHARGERMD master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,852 KENTUCKY	Is the "Ford" solenoid a particular part number,,eg,,from NAPA or the local automotive store ? I saw in one of the pics a "Borg Warner S605 Continous Duty Relay".... (is this the Ford solenoid that people use?) ps RobX,,you da man,,great pics/diagrams,,i saved and printed all of them for future reference. Last edited by 69CHARGERMD; 01/15/09 06:16 PM.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: 69CHARGERMD] #193302 01/15/09 06:20 PM 01/15/09 06:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	http://www.napaonline.com/NOLPPSE/(S(saf...p;Dk=1&Dp=3 Hope that works. It's the interchange info from napa with part numbers for the relay. Can't take credit for any of the diagrams. Someone else posted them and I did the same... clicked and saved. They do come in handy!

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: RobX4406] #193303 01/15/09 06:32 PM 01/15/09 06:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,852 KENTUCKY 69CHARGERMD master
69CHARGERMD master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,852 KENTUCKY	Thanks Rob, I checked the NAPA site,,,they picture 2 different solenoids,,one looks more sturdy than the other,,and price was way different,,,, Was there a particular one you used ? I also put the link to MadElectical,,,, i might get this one,,,has the wires,,and solenoid,,,and the price was pretty good.... http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: WadeMetzinger] #193304 01/15/09 06:55 PM 01/15/09 06:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere S smokinwoody I Live Here
smokinwoody I Live Here S Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere	this be what I did..

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: smokinwoody] #193305 01/15/09 07:15 PM 01/15/09 07:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 125 Loganville, GA S Stewart member
Stewart member S Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 125 Loganville, GA	Fasteddie The switch is still hooked to the rod that is out the back of the car. It has to be to be legal. But I can also work it from in the drivers seat.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: Stewart] #193306 01/15/09 07:48 PM 01/15/09 07:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 549 Bristol, Va fasteddie mopar
fasteddie mopar Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 549 Bristol, Va	Quote: Fasteddie The switch is still hooked to the rod that is out the back of the car. It has to be to be legal. But I can also work it from in the drivers seat. That's cool. Just trying to be helpful. 2003 Bristol Dragway Sportsman Champion 2016 Bristol Dragway Power Hour Champion

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: fasteddie] #193307 01/15/09 08:38 PM 01/15/09 08:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 286 So. IL. USA PLUM BAD enthusiast
PLUM BAD enthusiast Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 286 So. IL. USA	I made mine so the switch can be turned off and on from inside the car or behind it. I can't count how many times I got in and forgot to turn on the power. Not any more.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: smokinwoody] #193308 01/15/09 08:56 PM 01/15/09 08:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 807 Toronto, Canada D dirtybee super stock
dirtybee super stock D Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 807 Toronto, Canada	smokinwoody, no offence but i can't see where alot of those wires are going to/ coming from. i would love to see a clear (even drawn with a pencil) diagram of a SIMPLE way to LEGALLY install a 2 prong on/off batt cutoff switch on a car running a mostly stock mopar wiring setup with an orig alternator. i have eliminated the ammeter in favor of the MADELECTRIC voltmeter conversion. can i hook up my switch by simply running a few wires and NO ford solenoid? thats what i want to know. sorry if this is boring or redundant or a hijack but i thought i'd be able to just hook up this overpriced switch and race without a whole rigamaroll?

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: PLUM BAD] #193309 01/15/09 09:09 PM 01/15/09 09:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,852 KENTUCKY 69CHARGERMD master
69CHARGERMD master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,852 KENTUCKY	very cool plumbad......

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: PLUM BAD] #193310 01/15/09 09:31 PM 01/15/09 09:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 288 Delmont, Pa. S SRT8Challenger enthusiast
SRT8Challenger enthusiast S Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 288 Delmont, Pa.	Hey guys, this is a great idea, I'm going to relocate my Batt to the trunk this spring! I currently have a cut out on the neg side right now with the Batt up front, I think I have worn out my door hinges with going in and out to turn in on!! I always forget, Great idea, two methods to control the power! Thanks! ED

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: dirtybee] #193311 01/15/09 10:33 PM 01/15/09 10:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere S smokinwoody I Live Here
smokinwoody I Live Here S Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere	Quote: smokinwoody, no offence but i can't see where alot of those wires are going to/ coming from. i would love to see a clear (even drawn with a pencil) diagram of a SIMPLE way to LEGALLY install a 2 prong on/off batt cutoff switch on a car running a mostly stock mopar wiring setup with an orig alternator. i have eliminated the ammeter in favor of the MADELECTRIC voltmeter conversion. can i hook up my switch by simply running a few wires and NO ford solenoid? thats what i want to know. sorry if this is boring or redundant or a hijack but i thought i'd be able to just hook up this overpriced switch and race without a whole rigamaroll? none taken...lol...it looks like a mess back there but its realy simple.. its basicaly this.. the alternator goes to the solonoid and then to the battery...when the switch is off,the power is released to the solonoid thus killing the alternator and the switch killing off all positive power from the battery...

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: smokinwoody] #193312 01/15/09 11:01 PM 01/15/09 11:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,852 KENTUCKY 69CHARGERMD master
69CHARGERMD master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,852 KENTUCKY	Smokin' good pics.... I need to re-wire the Belvedere,,,,and put in a solenoid,,,and run a wire up to the alternator....to make it right. Question: Where did you get the wiring you have,,,,and how did you know what gauge to use for what .... thanks, Doug ps,,,is the way you have your (+) cable running from battery,,,,,to the kill switch,,,,,and then to the starter how you did it ? ( wont this keep the large,,batt cable running to the front of the car hot ALL the time when teh kill switch is in the on position ? ),,, in the first diagram that Rob posted,,,the batt cable looks to go thru the solenoid,,,,( i suppose in that case, the batt cable would only be hot during starting ,,,and then "dead" while the car is running ?),,, I hope i am making sense,,,, not sure if i am missing something ? On the Madelectric site,,,they also show the large batt cable going thru the solenoid,,, I have to figure out how to wire mine....... Doug Last edited by 69CHARGERMD; 01/15/09 11:20 PM.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: 69CHARGERMD] #193313 01/15/09 11:26 PM 01/15/09 11:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere S smokinwoody I Live Here
smokinwoody I Live Here S Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere	the solonoid just kills off the alternator...you could run some other things thru it like ignition feed but thats always better off the switch direct to the battery... theres never a hot lead to the starter...battery to one side of switch...other side to starter..remember we are using the solonoid to break the power coming from the alternator.. when the switch is off..its all dead from the battery.. as far as wire size...the 2 yellows I parralleld from the solonoid because I ran out of the larger gauge that I used from the alternator...I want to say thats a #6 wire to the alternator...#2's to the starter and from the battery... you can buy wire kits for remote batteries..maybe my background of being an electrician sorta helps..I know it looks like a mess but if you saw it or being there helps...pics somehow dont always show the exact detail...

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: smokinwoody] #193314 01/15/09 11:48 PM 01/15/09 11:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	Doug, I'm guessing the mad electric wire kit comes with the less expensive relay. I've used some of the cheapest relays ever and never had an issue with the relays. I ALWAYS carried a spare. I generally wire it like the first diagram and use two relays. One for the starter and wired like the diagram. The second I remove the alt wire from the starter relay in the first diagram and run it like the 3rd diagram with the s605. Once the car starts, the only two hot wires to the front run to the starter relay lug and the alternator wire. The starter wire/cable is only hot when the key is in the start position. Hope that helps. It's a bit of a hybrid of the two as I don't like any of the three on a standalone basis. My thinking is that once you throw the cut off, everything beyond the switch and relays should be dead. Keep anything hot contained to a small area in the trunk. Revised the way I like to wire them up.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: RobX4406] #193315 01/16/09 12:29 AM 01/16/09 12:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 807 Toronto, Canada D dirtybee super stock
dirtybee super stock D Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 807 Toronto, Canada	so you can't run a bat cutoff switch effectively and pass tech without buying relays and or solenoids? sorry guys

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: dirtybee] #193316 01/16/09 12:38 AM 01/16/09 12:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere S smokinwoody I Live Here
smokinwoody I Live Here S Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere	sure you can...we just got more creative..

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: smokinwoody] #193317 01/16/09 12:49 AM 01/16/09 12:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 807 Toronto, Canada D dirtybee super stock
dirtybee super stock D Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 807 Toronto, Canada	ok i've been warned at the track already, how should i run the wires 'cause i don't think the instructions that came with the switch to just interupt the pos batt cable with the switch will be adequet? do i just also run the alt batt wire back to the switch then back forward to the factory batt term on the firewall to basically interupt this circuit with the switch as well? again, sorry i'm a bit thick on this

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: dirtybee] #193318 01/16/09 12:56 AM 01/16/09 12:56 AM
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere S smokinwoody I Live Here
smokinwoody I Live Here S Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere	follow the schematics that Rob posted

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: smokinwoody] #193319 01/16/09 12:59 AM 01/16/09 12:59 AM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	Wire it like the second schematic if you don't want to spend about $30 on the relays.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: RobX4406] #193320 01/16/09 01:13 AM 01/16/09 01:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma V Von master
Von master V Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma	Not to hijack this post, but Ive got a question. Last time out at TRP, (Wade,you might take note) they gritched because my shut off didnt kill the motor.(I figured they would sooner or later) Anyway, why cant I just run the charge wire from the alt to the pos side of the batter? Wouldnt that kill everything when the switch is turned off? Thanks 72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: Von] #193321 01/16/09 01:19 AM 01/16/09 01:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere S smokinwoody I Live Here
smokinwoody I Live Here S Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere	yes but the positive at the alternator will be hot...thats why I have a solonoid..

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: smokinwoody] #193322 01/16/09 01:26 AM 01/16/09 01:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma V Von master
Von master V Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma	Quote: yes but the positive at the alternator will be hot...thats why I have a solonoid.. OK. If I run the charge wire from the alt to the battery side of the shutoff wouldnt that kill everything? 72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: Von] #193323 01/16/09 01:35 AM 01/16/09 01:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	it should

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: dirtybee] #193324 01/16/09 02:54 AM 01/16/09 02:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 5,314 Carstairs, Alberta, Canada dave571 master
dave571 master Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 5,314 Carstairs, Alberta, Canada	Quote: ok i've been warned at the track already, how should i run the wires 'cause i don't think the instructions that came with the switch to just interupt the pos batt cable with the switch will be adequet? do i just also run the alt batt wire back to the switch then back forward to the factory batt term on the firewall to basically interupt this circuit with the switch as well? again, sorry i'm a bit thick on this The easy way, with no relays required..... Disconnect the factory alternator(heavy b+) output wire from the alt. Run a heavy wire/cable from the alt B+ to the battery positive terminal in the trunk (or the SAME side of the switch that the battery positive is on) In review....2 pole switch. One side has the alt B+ wire, AND the batt pos on it. The other side has the cable that goes up to the starter solenoid,(where the factory pos wire used to go) It's really that simple. No relays, only one extra wire, it'll shut the car off every time, and pass tech every time. The rules state that electrical function must cease, and it all does. Think of it this way. The car needs B+ to run. The batt OR the alt can provide B+ By putting them both on the SAME side of the switch, you isolate them both from the rest of the car when you throw the switch. The other benefit, your ammeter is now bypassed. no chance of melting anything.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: Von] #193325 01/16/09 08:07 AM 01/16/09 08:07 AM
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere S smokinwoody I Live Here
smokinwoody I Live Here S Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere	yes and yes...as long as its the battery side of the switch

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: dave571] #193326 01/16/09 08:14 AM 01/16/09 08:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	Quote: Quote: ok i've been warned at the track already, how should i run the wires 'cause i don't think the instructions that came with the switch to just interupt the pos batt cable with the switch will be adequet? do i just also run the alt batt wire back to the switch then back forward to the factory batt term on the firewall to basically interupt this circuit with the switch as well? again, sorry i'm a bit thick on this The easy way, with no relays required..... Disconnect the factory alternator(heavy b+) output wire from the alt. Run a heavy wire/cable from the alt B+ to the battery positive terminal in the trunk (or the SAME side of the switch that the battery positive is on) In review....2 pole switch. One side has the alt B+ wire, AND the batt pos on it. The other side has the cable that goes up to the starter solenoid,(where the factory pos wire used to go) It's really that simple. No relays, only one extra wire, it'll shut the car off every time, and pass tech every time. The rules state that electrical function must cease, and it all does. Think of it this way. The car needs B+ to run. The batt OR the alt can provide B+ By putting them both on the SAME side of the switch, you isolate them both from the rest of the car when you throw the switch. The other benefit, your ammeter is now bypassed. no chance of melting anything. Exactly like I said above. Clean it, if it's Dirty. Oil it, if it Squeaks. But: Don't fix it, if it Works!

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: dave571] #193327 01/16/09 08:21 AM 01/16/09 08:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 512 Illinois Mopar_Ray mopar
Mopar_Ray mopar Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 512 Illinois	Quote: Quote: The easy way, with no relays required..... Disconnect the factory alternator(heavy b+) output wire from the alt. Run a heavy wire/cable from the alt B+ to the battery positive terminal in the trunk (or the SAME side of the switch that the battery positive is on) In review....2 pole switch. One side has the alt B+ wire, AND the batt pos on it. The other side has the cable that goes up to the starter solenoid,(where the factory pos wire used to go) It's really that simple. Thats the way I did it. Battery and 1 wire alternator wire to one side of switch and everything else to the other side of switch. Why would you do it any other way? Is there any advantage to using all the selenoids?

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: Mopar_Ray] #193328 01/16/09 08:43 AM 01/16/09 08:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 288 Delmont, Pa. S SRT8Challenger enthusiast
SRT8Challenger enthusiast S Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 288 Delmont, Pa.	Thats the way I was going to do it....But the wire to the Alt. will be hot all the time, even when main is in the off position. I also have the one wire Alt. does it matter if this is hot all the time, or do I need a soleniod??? Thanks, Ed

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: dave571] #193329 01/16/09 09:23 AM 01/16/09 09:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 807 Toronto, Canada D dirtybee super stock
dirtybee super stock D Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 807 Toronto, Canada	ok, i finally get it. i did say i was a bit thick. don't know why i didn't get the diagram the first time. thanks to all. you guys rule

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: RobX4406] #193330 01/17/09 07:52 AM 01/17/09 07:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,852 KENTUCKY 69CHARGERMD master
69CHARGERMD master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,852 KENTUCKY	Quote: Doug, I'm guessing the mad electric wire kit comes with the less expensive relay. I've used some of the cheapest relays ever and never had an issue with the relays. I ALWAYS carried a spare. I generally wire it like the first diagram and use two relays. One for the starter and wired like the diagram. The second I remove the alt wire from the starter relay in the first diagram and run it like the 3rd diagram with the s605. Once the car starts, the only two hot wires to the front run to the starter relay lug and the alternator wire. The starter wire/cable is only hot when the key is in the start position. Hope that helps. It's a bit of a hybrid of the two as I don't like any of the three on a standalone basis. My thinking is that once you throw the cut off, everything beyond the switch and relays should be dead. Keep anything hot contained to a small area in the trunk. Revised the way I like to wire them up. Rob,,,, Is there an advantage to running TWO relays,,,, Wouldnt the pic below be OK ? Sorry,,,i am learning here,,,, Seems like the same thing ?? (ps,,in your pic,,you have 2 "different" relays,,one a "ford" the other a sBorg ? (is there a difference,,),,again forgive my electrical knowledge,, Last edited by 69CHARGERMD; 01/17/09 08:13 AM.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: 69CHARGERMD] #193331 01/17/09 08:34 AM 01/17/09 08:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere S smokinwoody I Live Here
smokinwoody I Live Here S Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere	in your pic Doug...the power from the battery will remain hot at the alternator...and yes there is a way to do this with one solonoid and not have a hot wire passed the battery...

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: smokinwoody] #193332 01/17/09 10:05 AM 01/17/09 10:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	Funny how confusing and difficult some people can make something so easy.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: MoparforLife] #193333 01/17/09 10:45 AM 01/17/09 10:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 512 Illinois Mopar_Ray mopar
Mopar_Ray mopar Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 512 Illinois	Still haven't figured out what the problem is with doing it the simple way (running the alternator off the battery side of switch). I know the alternator wire will be hot all the time, but what problems could that cause?

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: Mopar_Ray] #193334 01/17/09 11:14 AM 01/17/09 11:14 AM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,271 Vista, California 6 67Satty pro stock
67Satty pro stock 6 Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,271 Vista, California	OK, I've got a silly question. Why does moving the battery to the trunk position necessitate having a cut-off switch? I can see that having a switch to shut off power is a good safety idea. So wouldn't it also be a good idea with the battery under the hood? What is it about moving the battery back that makes it a rule to have the cutoff switch?

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: 67Satty] #193335 01/17/09 11:32 AM 01/17/09 11:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: OK, I've got a silly question. Why does moving the battery to the trunk position necessitate having a cut-off switch? I can see that having a switch to shut off power is a good safety idea. So wouldn't it also be a good idea with the battery under the hood? What is it about moving the battery back that makes it a rule to have the cutoff switch? NHRA/IHRA rule. The factory doesnt see the need for a master switch(cost and stupid people)they would forget its there, plus now days alot of stuff is still on the battery.. even when the ignition is off

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: MR_P_BODY] #193336 01/17/09 12:15 PM 01/17/09 12:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,818 Kirkland, Washington Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,818 Kirkland, Washington	Quote: Quote: OK, I've got a silly question. Why does moving the battery to the trunk position necessitate having a cut-off switch? I can see that having a switch to shut off power is a good safety idea. So wouldn't it also be a good idea with the battery under the hood? What is it about moving the battery back that makes it a rule to have the cutoff switch? NHRA/IHRA rule. The factory doesnt see the need for a master switch(cost and stupid people)they would forget its there, plus now days alot of stuff is still on the battery.. even when the ignition is off I always figured it was a combination of: 1) By moving the batt to the trunk its not THAT difficult to require the switch while your at it and... 2) Most cars that reach this level of modification are now running an electric fuel pump, and thats the primarly goal of the switch--to stop fuel flow in the event of an accident, even though the motor may have already stopped.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: MR_P_BODY] #193337 01/17/09 12:17 PM 01/17/09 12:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,852 KENTUCKY 69CHARGERMD master
69CHARGERMD master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,852 KENTUCKY	Quote: Funny how confusing and difficult some people can make something so easy Whatever...........some of "us" need a bit of assistance..

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: 69CHARGERMD] #193338 01/17/09 01:03 PM 01/17/09 01:03 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar master
451Mopar master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	You sure make your wiring complicated My setup is Battery positive to cutoff switch, other side of cutoff switch to starter terminal stud with a jumper wire from the staerer terminal stud to the starter relay to where the battery power is normmaly connected. Obviously throwing the switch will not kill the engine, so my one wire solution was wiring an ignition kill circuit that goes from the ignition to ground through a normally closed microswitch mounted to the battery cutoff switch. I'm not sure this is 100% NHRA approved, but it has passed tech for years.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: MoparforLife] #193339 01/17/09 01:14 PM 01/17/09 01:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	Quote: Funny how confusing and difficult some people can make something so easy. Like Woody and I have both said. We prefer to not have any hot wires beyond the trunk. Your way and the easier way leaves the hot to the alternator all the time... NO thanks! It might pass tech, but I prefer to be a bit safer. My way takes one relay and one/two extra wires... I know that must be a pain and so difficult for some!

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: RobX4406] #193340 01/17/09 01:25 PM 01/17/09 01:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,852 KENTUCKY 69CHARGERMD master
69CHARGERMD master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,852 KENTUCKY	Thanks Rob,,, I am going to wire mine like your diagram,,,appreciate the help.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: 69CHARGERMD] #193341 01/17/09 01:41 PM 01/17/09 01:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	Good luck. For those that want to incorporate the neutral safety switch, use an Echlin st-83 jeep solenoid. There some more difficulty for you...

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: RobX4406] #193342 01/17/09 02:17 PM 01/17/09 02:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 344 Phoenix J jinxy enthusiast
jinxy enthusiast J Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 344 Phoenix	On my 1970 Dart the output terminal on the alternator is hot(12 volts) all the time, even with the ignition switch off. So the alternator output terminal is connected to the battery (+) all the time from the factory. Jeff

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: RobX4406] #193343 01/17/09 02:31 PM 01/17/09 02:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	Quote: Quote: Funny how confusing and difficult some people can make something so easy. Like Woody and I have both said. We prefer to not have any hot wires beyond the trunk. Your way and the easier way leaves the hot to the alternator all the time... NO thanks! It might pass tech, but I prefer to be a bit safer. My way takes one relay and one/two extra wires... I know that must be a pain and so difficult for some! You have hot wires beyond the trunk. No way around it if your battery is in the trunk you have wires to it. relays, solenoids or not. It is you money. Support the parts people they need money too. Clean it, if it's Dirty. Oil it, if it Squeaks. But: Don't fix it, if it Works!

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: MoparforLife] #193344 01/17/09 02:42 PM 01/17/09 02:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	Quote: Quote: Quote: Funny how confusing and difficult some people can make something so easy. Like Woody and I have both said. We prefer to not have any hot wires beyond the trunk. Your way and the easier way leaves the hot to the alternator all the time... NO thanks! It might pass tech, but I prefer to be a bit safer. My way takes one relay and one/two extra wires... I know that must be a pain and so difficult for some! You have hot wires beyond the trunk. No way around it if your battery is in the trunk you have wires to it. relays, solenoids or not. It is you money. Support the parts people they need money too. Not the way I do it you don't... Once you throw the switch there's NOTHING hot beyond the trunk and the relays in the trunk. I won't argue with you about this because you don't have a clue on this one.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: RobX4406] #193345 01/17/09 03:11 PM 01/17/09 03:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Funny how confusing and difficult some people can make something so easy. Like Woody and I have both said. We prefer to not have any hot wires beyond the trunk. Your way and the easier way leaves the hot to the alternator all the time... NO thanks! It might pass tech, but I prefer to be a bit safer. My way takes one relay and one/two extra wires... I know that must be a pain and so difficult for some! You have hot wires beyond the trunk. No way around it if your battery is in the trunk you have wires to it. relays, solenoids or not. It is you money. Support the parts people they need money too. Not the way I do it you don't... Once you throw the switch there's NOTHING hot beyond the trunk and the relays in the trunk. I won't argue with you about this because you don't have a clue on this one. The HELL I don't we were wiring relays and solenoids into circle cars probably before you were born or even thought of for that matter. Don't tell me I don't have a clue on this. Just find it a waste. Throwing the main without all the bells and whistles kills the power too so whats the biggy? Anything live is wired to the off side. (Or should be) If you want to be so dam smart better rewire everything you have there is a Hell of a lot more live wiring (even with the switch off) than on your drivers than ever on the your race cars. I don't really car what you high $$$ guys do. There seems to be an endless supply of $$$ on this board. Many must have gotten in on the stimulus funding.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: MoparforLife] #193346 01/17/09 03:22 PM 01/17/09 03:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Funny how confusing and difficult some people can make something so easy. Like Woody and I have both said. We prefer to not have any hot wires beyond the trunk. Your way and the easier way leaves the hot to the alternator all the time... NO thanks! It might pass tech, but I prefer to be a bit safer. My way takes one relay and one/two extra wires... I know that must be a pain and so difficult for some! You have hot wires beyond the trunk. No way around it if your battery is in the trunk you have wires to it. relays, solenoids or not. It is you money. Support the parts people they need money too. Not the way I do it you don't... Once you throw the switch there's NOTHING hot beyond the trunk and the relays in the trunk. I won't argue with you about this because you don't have a clue on this one. The HELL I don't we were wiring relays and solenoids into circle cars probably before you were born or even thought of for that matter. Don't tell me I don't have a clue on this. Just find it a waste. If you want to be so dam smart better rewire everything you have there is a Hell of a lot more live wiring (even with the switch off) than on your drivers than ever on the your race cars. I don't really car what you high $$$ guys do. There seems to be an endless supply of $$$ on this board. Many must have gotten in on the stimulus funding. High dollar... 30-50 bucks. Yep that it's. I don't care if you are old enough to have invented the wheel. Maybe you handcranked your first car?. No surprise some of the guy I know on this board, think what they do about you. You don't know what you're talking about. When you throw the cutoff on my cars nothing is live outside the trunk and it's maybe a 2x3 area at that. It's called alternatives. I take it you haven't thought about a constant hot wire to an alternator and a bad fuel leak. Been in a fire because of that smart guy? You know everything so take that genius! I'm done. Another to ignore... congrats

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: MoparforLife] #193347 01/17/09 03:27 PM 01/17/09 03:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 761 KY J juicedcuda super stock
juicedcuda super stock J Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 761 KY	why cant you just put the alternator wire on the side of the main kill switch going to the front of the car so that the alternator is killed when the switch is off? 1970 Plymouth 'Cuda 1970 Plum Crazy "Gold Duster" 1973 Gold Duster

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: juicedcuda] #193348 01/17/09 03:32 PM 01/17/09 03:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	Quote: why cant you just put the alternator wire on the side of the main kill switch going to the front of the car so that the alternator is killed when the switch is off? If you put it on the side of the switch going to the front of the car, it won't cut off the power supply from the alternator. As long as the alternator is turning, energy is being supplied. The car will continue to run, just like when you have it running and pull the + battery terminal from a car, due to the charging system. It has to be on the battery side of the switch.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: RobX4406] #193349 01/17/09 03:36 PM 01/17/09 03:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 761 KY J juicedcuda super stock
juicedcuda super stock J Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 761 KY	Quote: Quote: why cant you just put the alternator wire on the side of the main kill switch going to the front of the car so that the alternator is killed when the switch is off? If you put it on the side of the switch going to the front of the car, it won't cut off the power supply from the alternator. As long as the alternator is turning, energy is being supplied. The car will continue to run, just like when you have it running and pull the + battery terminal from a car, due to the charging system. It has to be on the battery side of the switch. gotcha 1970 Plymouth 'Cuda 1970 Plum Crazy "Gold Duster" 1973 Gold Duster

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: juicedcuda] #193350 01/17/09 03:42 PM 01/17/09 03:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,756 London, England Gavin top fuel
Gavin top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,756 London, England	Quote: why cant you just put the alternator wire on the side of the main kill switch going to the front of the car so that the alternator is killed when the switch is off? Because although that would break the path between the battery and the alternator (thus stopping the alternator being hot when everything was switched off) it means that the alternator is directly wired to the rest of the vehicle wiring - so if you switch the disconnect with the engine running the alternator will still power everything and the engine won't cut out..... EDIT - I need to refresh more often

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: RobX4406] #193351 01/17/09 03:57 PM 01/17/09 03:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	Quote: I take it you haven't thought about a constant hot wire to an alternator and a bad fuel leak. Been in a fire because of that smart guy? Oh master electrical god, it is dead with the switch in the off position when wire it to the off side of the switch so it is only connected with the switch in the on position. Ever think of that oh brilliant one.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: MoparforLife] #193352 01/17/09 04:03 PM 01/17/09 04:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	Quote: Quote: I take it you haven't thought about a constant hot wire to an alternator and a bad fuel leak. Been in a fire because of that smart guy? Oh master electrical god, it is dead with the switch in the off position when wire it to the off side of the switch so it is only connected with the switch in the on position. Ever think of that oh brilliant one. Want to think about that for a minute... Just want to get this up so you can't change what you wrote. That removes the other electrical source how? Battery one. Alternator the other... Thanks for proving my point. see the post about 1-3 above... After this doozy, maybe you should have stuck with your old handle! You're on ignore now, so have fun.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: RobX4406] #193353 01/17/09 05:33 PM 01/17/09 05:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	Granted it isn't legal to hook it up the way I mentioned in the post above as it would not kill power as long as the engine is running off alternator output but once the ignition is shut off the alternator power wire would be dead with the master cut off shut in the off position until the ignition power switch or the master switch is switched to on. But with both switches off it would be dead as in sitting in a trailer or in the pits. Not legal NHRA legal but the power would be dead but wouldn't kill as long as the alternator was charging. You do your others can do your thing and me and many others will do ours. Hope you rewire your drivers so that they are dead when you throw the switch there lot more live wires there with the ignition off. That way you can sleep easier.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: MoparforLife] #193354 01/17/09 07:08 PM 01/17/09 07:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,852 KENTUCKY 69CHARGERMD master
69CHARGERMD master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,852 KENTUCKY	Quote: Granted it isn't legal to hook it up the way I mentioned in the post above as it would not kill power as long as the engine is running off alternator output Dont like the sound of that ,Worse case scenerio ,eg ,Motor running,,,crash or accident occurs down track,,,,motor still running or fire,,,,driver might not be able to shut off ignition inside car ( cant reach it,,or too dazed to shut it off) ,,,,track personal run up to car to help,,,, track personal cant kill car with switch on back of car ?? Last edited by 69CHARGERMD; 01/17/09 07:10 PM.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: MoparforLife] #193355 01/17/09 08:00 PM 01/17/09 08:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 512 Illinois Mopar_Ray mopar
Mopar_Ray mopar Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 512 Illinois	Quote: Oh master electrical god, it is dead with the switch in the off position when wire it to the off side of the switch so it is only connected with the switch in the on position. Ever think of that oh brilliant one. OK another question I wish I never asked!

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut [Re: 69CHARGERMD] #193356 01/17/09 08:24 PM 01/17/09 08:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	Quote: Quote: Granted it isn't legal to hook it up the way I mentioned in the post above as it would not kill power as long as the engine is running off alternator output Dont like the sound of that ,Worse case scenerio ,eg ,Motor running,,,crash or accident occurs down track,,,,motor still running or fire,,,,driver might not be able to shut off ignition inside car ( cant reach it,,or too dazed to shut it off) ,,,,track personal run up to car to help,,,, track personal cant kill car with switch on back of car ?? Like I said it ain't legal but have seen it done because they hook it up that way and it is dead. They turn it on and things work. They turn engine off with ignition switch, hit main and all is dead. A lot of people don't try to hit the main with the engine running to see if it will kill everything and just take for granted that because it is dead when it is off and alive with the ignition on it is right and track legal, when in reality it isn't. Yes every thing is dead when when everything is shut down. But not when you need it. Point I was trying to make is that there are many ways to hook up the main, some may work but not be racing legal but everyday functional and a theft deterent or what ever and there are also several race legal ways to hook up a main.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: PLUM BAD] #193357 01/17/09 08:58 PM 01/17/09 08:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio VernMotor master
VernMotor master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio	Quote: I made mine so the switch can be turned off and on from inside the car or behind it. I can't count how many times I got in and forgot to turn on the power. Not any more. Awsome ! Idea of the month ! Thank you !

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: VernMotor] #193358 01/17/09 10:58 PM 01/17/09 10:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	I would also think one reason NHRA wants a cutout switch when the battery is in the trunk is because if the car needs the power killed with the battery in the trunk they may not be able to open the trunk. The hood can usually be opened even if a car crashes but most of the time you need the key to open the trunk and unhook the battery if the battery is in the trunk. Ron

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: 383man] #193359 01/17/09 11:12 PM 01/17/09 11:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 549 Bristol, Va fasteddie mopar
fasteddie mopar Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 549 Bristol, Va	Good Lord! Some people make even the simplest things complicated and fight about it. Call Mark at Mad electrical and he will supply you with all you need, wiring, relays, and most important, instructions. Wire it the way he says in the supplied instructions and you will be safe and legal. 2003 Bristol Dragway Sportsman Champion 2016 Bristol Dragway Power Hour Champion

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: fasteddie] #193360 01/18/09 12:49 AM 01/18/09 12:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,384 Madison Wi NTOLERANCE master
NTOLERANCE master Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,384 Madison Wi	My disconnect switch had 4 terminals on it. One set is large for the main battery cable, and one set is small for the alternator batt wire. I run a smal jumper from the battery larger terminal, to the small terminal. The other small terminal goes to the alternator. No relay needed. I used to care but....... things have changed

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: NTOLERANCE] #193361 01/18/09 09:53 AM 01/18/09 09:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest M MoparforLife Too Many Posts
MoparforLife Too Many Posts M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest	NTOLERANCE - Nice switch - really simplifies and things. Like said there are a lot of ways to do this and with out robbing a bank to do it.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: NTOLERANCE] #193362 01/18/09 10:53 AM 01/18/09 10:53 AM
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere S smokinwoody I Live Here
smokinwoody I Live Here S Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere	Quote: My disconnect switch had 4 terminals on it. One set is large for the main battery cable, and one set is small for the alternator batt wire. I run a smal jumper from the battery larger terminal, to the small terminal. The other small terminal goes to the alternator. No relay needed. I hope those little terminals are rated for more than 30 amp..most alternators put out at least 60A and average is 80A...usualy those smaller terminals would be reserved for the ignition which is a great idea...I use mine that has 2 poles for ignition and I use a solonoid for disconecting the power from the alternator so I dont have any HOT wires leaving the Trunk/battery area...and when the switch is OFF...its all OFF.. there are other ways Im sure...I believe there maybe a switch that has the two poles rated for the higher amperage

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: smokinwoody] #193363 01/18/09 11:00 AM 01/18/09 11:00 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,384 Madison Wi NTOLERANCE master
NTOLERANCE master Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,384 Madison Wi	This switch is from an industrial application. ITs all copper contacts inside, and while the terminals do seem small, I dont anticipate a problem. I dont have alot of power accessories. Headlights would be my biggest concern. I used to care but....... things have changed

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: NTOLERANCE] #193364 01/18/09 11:05 AM 01/18/09 11:05 AM
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere S smokinwoody I Live Here
smokinwoody I Live Here S Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 12,339 somwhere	the other reason why Im saying this about those switches is...I did the same thing you are doing on my other car...my switches also are heavy duty copper contacts...I went back to the switch as the car was running,and that switch was so hot it felt like it was going to go into meltdown...I went and switched over like I did in the race car and it doesnt have nearly the heat build up... Im just saying those smaller contacts/terminals have a much lower rated load capacity...and be careful...

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: smokinwoody] #193365 01/18/09 11:44 AM 01/18/09 11:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio VernMotor master
VernMotor master Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,348 Mt.Vernon ,Ohio	One thing I have not seen covered in this thread is the size of wire..If you do not run a big good wire from the alt to relay/switch..your car will not charge good. I think it need to be #6 or bigger. one of my car has #8 on it and I lose 2 volts by the time it gets to the Battery..Long ways back there.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: smokinwoody] #193366 01/18/09 02:30 PM 01/18/09 02:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	Quote: Quote: My disconnect switch had 4 terminals on it. One set is large for the main battery cable, and one set is small for the alternator batt wire. I run a smal jumper from the battery larger terminal, to the small terminal. The other small terminal goes to the alternator. No relay needed. I hope those little terminals are rated for more than 30 amp..most alternators put out at least 60A and average is 80A...usualy those smaller terminals would be reserved for the ignition which is a great idea...I use mine that has 2 poles for ignition and I use a solonoid for disconecting the power from the alternator so I dont have any HOT wires leaving the Trunk/battery area...and when the switch is OFF...its all OFF.. there are other ways Im sure...I believe there maybe a switch that has the two poles rated for the higher amperage I agree with Woody. What is it's rating? Also, what is the cost of the 4 post compared to a 2 post and relay. My 2 post switch cost right at $20-25 and the relay is $13-15. I run very fine strand wire from the Alt to the relay. No matter if you run a relay or not, you'll have drop for the longer run.

Re: Moving Battery to trunk, do you have to have a shut off [Re: RobX4406] #193367 01/18/09 09:30 PM 01/18/09 09:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,384 Madison Wi NTOLERANCE master
NTOLERANCE master Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,384 Madison Wi	I thought the 4 post switch was like $30.00 Been awhile since I bought it. I cant find it in my catalog now. I am running welding cable for the battery/power cable. I used to care but....... things have changed

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