mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
#1917537
09/22/15 06:01 PM
09/22/15 06:01 PM
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efisixpack
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I picked these up in a package deal. Part number on box is7007194. Part number on head is 3769974. I have a matching pair. I really don't know their history or viability of use (any good to use?) so I thought I'd ask. What were these originally for? They are fully ported/polished and marked Mullen. They have "360" cast into he head as well. I even have the original boxes which I think are cool. The only think I find odd is the intake bolt pattern is slightly changed . It can be reversed easily, but why do that in the first place? Anyone familiar with these? I'll try to post some pics. Thanks in advance.
Last edited by efisixpack; 09/22/15 06:04 PM.
When I die I want to go like my Grandfather did, quietly in his sleep. Not screaming like the passengers in his car.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: efisixpack]
#1917548
09/22/15 06:20 PM
09/22/15 06:20 PM
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Cab_Burge
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Probally has the W2 intake bolt pattern on them IHTHs
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: efisixpack]
#1917559
09/22/15 06:36 PM
09/22/15 06:36 PM
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RMCHRGR
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Batten anything is probably worth using as long as they are viable and don't have any major issues. 974 casting heads are basic small block, like late 70's, early 80's maybe?
Rocker stands are milled, looks like the push rod pinch might be gone too, can't tell clearly from the pics. Chambers look nice. Are those chambers milled flat?
What would the intended usage be?
'71 Duster '17 Ram 1500
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: RMCHRGR]
#1917564
09/22/15 06:41 PM
09/22/15 06:41 PM
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Leon441
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I had a set. TA rocker gear for offset pushrods. Intake bolts are moved to also clear pushrods.
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: efisixpack]
#1917571
09/22/15 06:49 PM
09/22/15 06:49 PM
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autoxcuda
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Mullen contributed a lot to the SA Design series book: The "Mopar Smallblock Handook" and then the more popular "Mopar Performance" book
Troy's old Challenger T/A had heads that were done at Mullen. 30K original car that original owner put headers, cam, and those heads on. Steve70 now owns that car with those heads on it.
The heads had Mullen stampings. Steve70 has a picture CD with detailed pics of those heads.
Last edited by autoxcuda; 09/22/15 07:10 PM.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: efisixpack]
#1917572
09/22/15 06:49 PM
09/22/15 06:49 PM
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RMCHRGR
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Sorry, 974 is in fact a mid-70's casting #, looks like 1976.
Did Direct Connection offer a factory ported iron head? They have a lot of W2 characteristics. Bet they flow pretty well.
I saw a peculiar pair of heads they did on Ebay a few years ago. The way they did the ports, they got huge numbers in the lower lifts but not much past like .550 or so said the accompanying flow chart. Maybe they were for circle track? Don't know but they always stuck in my head for that reason.
Would be cool to see what these look like on a flow bench.
'71 Duster '17 Ram 1500
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: Porter67]
#1917623
09/22/15 08:06 PM
09/22/15 08:06 PM
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autoxcuda
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Thats interesting as ive a set of 76 W2-s marked in the same fashion that I thought were from petty, possibly not after seeing these heads.
Can you post a better pic of the stamped area under the center ex ports and I will do the same. This is the highest res I have. There might be more marking than just this. Have to ask Troy and Steve70.
Last edited by autoxcuda; 09/22/15 08:08 PM.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: Porter67]
#1917662
09/22/15 09:01 PM
09/22/15 09:01 PM
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efisixpack
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Honestly I don't know what to do with them. Realistically, I don't see myself building a small block in the near future, but I love finding and learning about these old parts. I would assume there isn't a lot of value in them considering all the new heads out today. You are probably right Andy, it will take a guy doing a day2 car to show interest in them, assuming I decide to let them go. Here's another shot for giggles.
When I die I want to go like my Grandfather did, quietly in his sleep. Not screaming like the passengers in his car.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: efisixpack]
#1917740
09/22/15 10:48 PM
09/22/15 10:48 PM
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Dean_Kuzluzski
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efi, could you possibly post a better pic of the intake bowls??
They don't appear to be finished or maybe that's the intended contour they were going for.
I recently "hogged" out a set of late 70's 360 heads last winter. Got them cheap/free in a pkg deal, they were milled to about 67 cc's and my machinist freshened them for $350. They'll go on a warmed 318 for my sons high school/bracket car.
Most of the entry level guys have been financially pushed out of the hobby but there's a few of us languishing in the shadows.
R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: efisixpack]
#1917777
09/22/15 11:37 PM
09/22/15 11:37 PM
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Dean_Kuzluzski
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Yes, Thanks! Always interesting to see how the pro's did it.
R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: 340_Dart]
#1917937
09/23/15 10:48 AM
09/23/15 10:48 AM
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BradH
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Have one flowed on a bench, we might all be amazed! All the Mullen airflow work done at 3" H20"... and now lots of head specialists even question the validity of testing at 28" since it's often way lower than what the engine really generates for pressure. Makes my lowly SF-110 10" H20 standard look hi-tech compared to the old Mullen-era tests.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: RMCHRGR]
#1919374
09/25/15 12:13 PM
09/25/15 12:13 PM
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Rob C
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Sorry, 974 is in fact a mid-70's casting #, looks like 1976.
Did Direct Connection offer a factory ported iron head? They have a lot of W2 characteristics. Bet they flow pretty well. Yes, stock (360) heads. IIRC, they were the 308 castings, which have W2-ish like exhaust ports. I could be wrong. The heads came bowl ported and the next level up, fully ported. That was there description with a % number for flow increases. But there was still room to go on the heads. They also listed the heads for there intended lift use. AKA; Up to .500 and then over .500. MP also offered a ported 318 head, the 302 IIRC which they claimed it out powered the 360 head by 55HP on the smaller 318. MP offered loaded W2 heads, but not ported, at least that I remember.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: efisixpack]
#1919681
09/25/15 07:39 PM
09/25/15 07:39 PM
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efisixpack
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Interesting bits of information guys. I appreciate all the input. Sounds like the hard part is going to be putting a value on these things assuming I decide to find another owner.
Last edited by efisixpack; 09/25/15 07:40 PM.
When I die I want to go like my Grandfather did, quietly in his sleep. Not screaming like the passengers in his car.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: efisixpack]
#1919693
09/25/15 08:07 PM
09/25/15 08:07 PM
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odcics2
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Any idea what they cost new in a Direct-><-Connection catalog? Anyone have an old DC catalog and price list?
Last edited by odcics2; 09/25/15 08:09 PM.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: efisixpack]
#1919913
09/26/15 02:59 AM
09/26/15 02:59 AM
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Rob C
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The first 2 heads are the 360 heads. It is stated that they are ported to a 44% increase over stock heads which flow 200 cfm at least if not a tiny bit better. So, at least an addional 88 cfm makes them a pretty good flowing head. 288cfm should be able to get you moving well. Produced before Edelbrock came about? Each price is per head. (1 head complete.)
All prices are the Racers Net list in the year 2000.
For the P4876179, 2.02-1.60 ported for .500 lift, $1206.60. For the P4876180. 2.02-1.60, ported for .650 lift, $995.00. -----------P5249459, 360HP- 1.88-1.60 (1 Stock head complete) $495 -----------P5007089, W2 head assembly, unported, $862 -----------P5007047 STAGE V, 500/505 service head, $867 -----------P5249112 STABE V ported/2.14-1.81 (15% flow increase) $1295 -----------P4876186 Stage VI non CNC ported heads with 2.14-1.81 $1375. -----------P5876187, Stage VI non CNC ported head, 2.18-1.81, $1935 -----------P4876857, HEMI, $1495. Not ported, just an assembled head.
You guys don't want the ported 2.2/2.5L OHC 4 banger report do ya?
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: efisixpack]
#1920031
09/26/15 01:14 PM
09/26/15 01:14 PM
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I was asking whether "Direct Connection" (not MP) back in the '70s was offering a ported iron head, I don't have any older DC catalogs around. If Mopar did offer something like that, I imagine they likely would have been done by Mullen. The W2 came out around the same time so it kind of does not really make sense. Maybe they were exploring stuff with factory heads? Dunno.
I have a set of the #269 heads. These were the MP OTC '308' heads without the smog holes. Same a s a regular 308 otherwise with 1.88 valves.
As mentioned, there were a few levels of ported iron heads they offered. I believe that was in the '80s though, not the '70s.
'71 Duster '17 Ram 1500
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: odcics2]
#1921380
09/28/15 07:07 PM
09/28/15 07:07 PM
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Off hand, I'd say that $1500. in today's money is a fair price for buyer and seller. With inflation, that 900.+ per head would be about 2k EACH in today's dollars!! Heck, I don't need them (today) but I'd give 1500 to have them on the shelve... The coolness factor adds value. Besides nos is nos... In this condition, almost unobtanium. LOL... try to get that... with mopar people.. never gonna happen.. plus they would be better off with alum EDIT more like $800-$900 max... sorry to say that.. but I have tried to sell stuff to mopar people in the US and no one wants to buy unless you want to give it away
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 09/28/15 07:10 PM.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: RMCHRGR]
#2440816
01/26/18 01:19 AM
01/26/18 01:19 AM
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Did Direct Connection offer a factory ported iron head? They have a lot of W2 characteristics. Bet they flow pretty well.
Would be cool to see what these look like on a flow bench.
W2 ported offerings from MP/DC? No, just loaded. They did offer ported 360 heads in 2 levels and a ported 318 head. W2’s came bare or loaded. And yes a flow bench would/could be very interesting
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: efisixpack]
#2440909
01/26/18 10:49 AM
01/26/18 10:49 AM
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STEFF
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I had a set of those heads on my 340 in my Challenger for years. They had the relocated pushrod holes to eliminate the pinch in the intake port and used W2 rocker arms and Stands. I sold them in 2000-2001, when I hurt that motor. Got $700 for them with valves & springs, if I remember correctly.
Last edited by STEFF; 01/26/18 10:50 AM.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#2743272
02/15/20 06:27 PM
02/15/20 06:27 PM
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Charlie H
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I was googling Bob Mullen's name and ran across this old thread. Since these things get searched now and then by old guys looking for bits of racing history, I thought I'd add a bit of my recollection of Bob Mullen and Mullen & Co..
I was 19 years old when I went to work for Bob Mullen in 1975 in Carson CA. Jim Razor was his shop leadman. A few doors down in the complex was a man of racing legend from the GT40 LeMans and Shelby Daytona coupe era, Steele Therkelsen. But that's another story.
I was hired as the machinist. Bob bought a brand new Bridgeport mill shortly after I arrived. I tooled up for milling heads and installing big seats in D6 Hemi heads that got some huge valves (2 3/8"?). I had to sink the seats deeply into the chambers so there was enough valve to valve (intake to exhaust) clearance. In the year or so I was there, I machined a lot of D6 heads for the big valves and a lot of port throats on 340/360 and W2 heads. Mullen did have a contract with Direct Connection for providing ported D6 Hemi and the small block iron heads (which I can't recall specifics about).
Mullen began manufacturing his own D6 big intake valve about then also. I made the first of those and seemingly hundreds of them later.
I recall a handful (maybe half a dozen?) of Offy (Offenhauser 4 cylinder) head/cylinder castings coming thru the shop for porting. They were special castings made by the Bignotti Champ Car team after Mullen had redesigned the ports.
One memory is of a set or 2 of 351 Cleveland heads that Bob Glidden had contracted Mullen to port for his pro-stock. I machined the exhaust ports back and installed aluminum plates to raise the exhaust ports, as was contemporary at the time.
Laying around the shop was a set of castings that Mullen had designed and had cast, but not had any machine work done on. These were 4 valve Big Block Chevy heads that were designed to be bolt on to a standard block and use a forked rocker arms to actuate two valves at a time. I talked to him about machining them, but I left the company before we did anything with them. Also laying around the shop was a 427 Ford SOHC engine, if my memory is correct. Pretty rare and valuable piece these days.
The mention of whether 3" of water flowbench testing vs. much higher deltaP flowbenches was going on back then. I had late evening discussions with Bob about that. Bob was an brilliant man. He was convinced there was not enough difference to warrant going to higher deltaP test benches. I think the business successes and racing community recognition he achieved using his hand built flowbench bear that out. I used that flowbench a number of times on both my personal projects and on customer projects. It was extremely well built and reliable, repeatable. I haven't seen any commercially manufactured flowbench that stood up to it. Last time I saw that bench was probably in the 80s or 90s after Bob had sold the business to someone.
I didn't stay in touch with Bob or Jim Razor and don't know if either is still upright. If anyone knows, please post.
Last edited by Charlie H; 02/15/20 06:38 PM.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: LSP]
#2743398
02/16/20 12:01 AM
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I went to an SAE Motorsports Conference in Dearborn in 1998. I met Bob Mullen there and he told me he made a set of D9 Hemi heads, but Sox & Martin weren't interested. He said they were just waiting for the weight breaks to change. I've never heard anything about D9 Hemi heads anywhere.
I have that old A&W 340 manual from when I was in high school. I converted the 3"H2O numbers to the 28"H2O numbers and got within 1 cfm of the bare 915 heads I had flowed locally.
Floyd Lippencott IV
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: LSP]
#2743464
02/16/20 09:48 AM
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Charlie H
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Charlie,
Ever wet sleeve or furnace braze sleeves in any 340 blocks when at Mullen's? LSP, No, I don't recall working on any blocks. I'm not sure a Bridgeport was big enough to sleeve a block. Lots of head work: guides, seats, decks, Holley carb or two, intake manifolds, and even recut Hemi chambers that Jim Razor welded up after some engine failures with a big form cutter that Bob had from his days at Chrysler. Bob's father came to work there somewhere along the time I was there. He was probably in his 80's at the time and had some great stories from machining huge steel mill rolls. It was a fun place to work for a while, when I was between aerospace jobs. But I needed to move on. Bob just couldn't pay much and I was starting to look elsewhere. I ended up at Rockwell working structural machining in El Segundo on the B-1A and Space Shuttle.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: Charlie H]
#2743504
02/16/20 11:43 AM
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LSP
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I was only there once - my Dad ran Modified Eliminator back in the day, and we took his 426 Hemi heads in one morning back in 78 I think it was for a valve job. I was only 14 at the time, but Jim let me face the valves after showing me how, was such a thrill at the time. I asked about the 340 block, because my Dad dropped by the shop later, and saw that it had no cylinders in it, was just one big oblong hole in each bank, Jim had said that it was one of Glidden's blocks.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: RMCHRGR]
#2743851
02/17/20 08:36 AM
02/17/20 08:36 AM
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I was asking whether "Direct Connection" (not MP) back in the '70s was offering a ported iron head, I don't have any older DC catalogs around. If Mopar did offer something like that, I imagine they likely would have been done by Mullen. The W2 came out around the same time so it kind of does not really make sense. Maybe they were exploring stuff with factory heads? Dunno.
I have a set of the #269 heads. These were the MP OTC '308' heads without the smog holes. Same a s a regular 308 otherwise with 1.88 valves.
As mentioned, there were a few levels of ported iron heads they offered. I believe that was in the '80s though, not the '70s. I believe you are thinking of "576" heads. DC/Mopar Perf. had a few versions of them over the years - "stock", assembled/ported to different levels as well as a T/A version. From what I recall reading, Mullin was experimenting with OEM heads, including T/A, and the radical mods finally lead to just casting a whole new head, the W-2. I'm guessing that Mopar had a lot of OEM stuff avaialable when the W-2 came out. There was a major cost factor in changing to W-2's, so the OEM based heads still filled a niche.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: 543Dakota]
#2869497
01/05/21 09:10 PM
01/05/21 09:10 PM
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I have a 1975 Direct Connection catalog and these heads [ Direct Connection / Mullen ] heads are offered in the book !! 1976 the W2 was released so these were the last Oem [Mullin] offerings and that in itself makes these very unique.
I have reference to W-2 heads as early as May ‘73. They might not have been released for sale to general public. But seems like they were ready and waiting. By March 29, 1975 Mullen is testing “W-3” heads. That was after a “W-2 1/2”. Haven’t found a reference to W-4... yet. Could the ported 360 be a class deal requiring production castings? Or/and a more economical head using production valve gear to sell in DC catalog to hot street and bracket racers?
Last edited by autoxcuda; 01/05/21 09:18 PM.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: 543Dakota]
#2874890
01/15/21 08:31 PM
01/15/21 08:31 PM
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I have a 1975 Direct Connection catalog and these heads [ Direct Connection / Mullen ] heads are offered in the book !! 1976 the W2 was released so these were the last Oem [Mullin] offerings and that in itself makes these very unique.
By the DC catalogs it looks like these Mullen 360 heads were offered until 1976
Last edited by autoxcuda; 01/15/21 08:32 PM.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: BradH]
#2977219
10/22/21 12:24 PM
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Charlie H
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Have one flowed on a bench, we might all be amazed! All the Mullen airflow work done at 3" H20"... and now lots of head specialists even question the validity of testing at 28" since it's often way lower than what the engine really generates for pressure. Makes my lowly SF-110 10" H20 standard look hi-tech compared to the old Mullen-era tests. I had some long discussions with Bob on this topic. While there will be differences in the measured results using low ∆P, the benefits of good port work from an accurate flow bench are likely more important than what ∆P is used. Bob's work led the industry when he was using 2 or 3 in/H2O and everyone was running many times that. Bob was a mechanical engineer and highly experienced in using flow benches that were of very high ∆P, much higher than the typical Superflow. I saw test data reports he had from his days at White Diesel, Ford and Chrysler. There's a good reason for going with low ∆P. You don't need soundproof rooms and hearing protection to work on the port while it's flowing. During port development, a technician needs to be able to use probes. High noise hinders concentration and work. With low ∆P, it's not a question of accuracy, but rather whether it is representative of the actual operating conditions. Accuracy is the fidelity of the bench to measure changes and be repeatable. While those early Superflow benches had higher ∆P, they had less ability to measure changes as accurately and repeatably. The question of whether Bob's bench was representative to real world conditions is exhibited in his succeses at the time, IMO. You can also look at aerodynamic testing. Aero engineers still use subscale test models and low flow rates for a lot of data. My brother is a windtunnel engineer at NASA Langley. And yes, there is a use for high speed tunnel data, but a large portion of data is gathered in low speed testing.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: autoxcuda]
#2980273
10/31/21 03:30 PM
10/31/21 03:30 PM
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mr_340
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I remember converting the flow Bob Mullen had at 3 inches of H2O on a stock 340 head vs. what one of mine flowed at 28 inches on a SF400. It was within one CFM of the same numbers after conversion. Different bench and different head. I think it's easier to find small gains with higher test pressures.
Floyd Lippencott IV
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: mr_340]
#3008429
01/24/22 08:36 AM
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Isle of Sheeps
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Wonderful subject and Bob Mullen is a god of Mopar lol.
This whole issue of flow is quite interesting indeed. David Vizard has used very basic methods for port improvement. Low Flow is very handy in port work but the consensus seem to like 28 inches.
We are talking 50 years ago with factory cast hipo heads ‘of the day’. Now we have a head for every occasion and mostly aluminium.
I nearly had the ‘deal of the century’ back in 2005. A good friend in LA took me to meet Hemi George in Sun Valley. I was on the hunt for a 426 hemi and he had some for sale. They were a bit pricey for me so he showed me ‘a builder 426H’.
It was a Bob Mullen experimental hemi in pieces. George said he has no idea what it’s worth, so I offered $15,000?
He said he would think about it and said “that was the price he wanted too”...
He then decided to build it himself.
It sold for $35,000 oh well, I was very close that time DOH...
Last edited by Gtxxjon; 01/24/22 08:38 AM.
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero, thanx Horace!
There’s no point trying to fix stuff that ain’t broke,,, 'but if ain’t broke',,, you is not trying hard enough...
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: Gtxxjon]
#3008512
01/24/22 01:51 PM
01/24/22 01:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791 MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
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I acquired this pair of T/A castings. The rocker pedestals are milled off. They look similar to a Mullen head. Any ides? Doug
Last edited by dvw; 01/24/22 01:56 PM.
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: dvw]
#3008513
01/24/22 01:54 PM
01/24/22 01:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791 MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
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Re: mid 70's NOS Mullen small block race heads
[Re: dvw]
#3008600
01/24/22 06:53 PM
01/24/22 06:53 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,072 oregon
greendart408
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,072
oregon
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I acquired this pair of T/A castings. The rocker pedestals are milled off. They look similar to a Mullen head. Any ides? Doug Neat stuff dvw, I'm into all this day 2 stuff and am always looking for something similar to put on my day 2 69 swinger. Hard to find for reasonable prices anymore tho.
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