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Re: Wade Metzinger...........your intake [Re: Big Squeeze] #1906284
09/04/15 01:31 PM
09/04/15 01:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quicktree Offline
I Win
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Posts: 32,394
wow this troubles me to read this. I have the utmost respect for Monte and his vast knowledge he shares with the members. and I hope he continues doing so. But dang man this doesn't look good for you. there is no good excuse for not communicating to customers and getting their junk back in a timely fashion. be upfront and tell people it may take a long time. there also is no excuse for not providing paper work. By the evidence I see presented to this court I rule in the favor of Big Squeeze. sorry Monte but I hope you get with him and make it right..

Re: Wade Metzinger...........your intake [Re: Monte_Smith] #1906313
09/04/15 02:21 PM
09/04/15 02:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Monte_Smith Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2004
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North Alabama
I admitted it took a long time and whatever facts are presented there is still more to the story. Yes, he paid up front, but at that time there was a real issue with the block he had and he was contemplating building a big block with PSO heads, because the block he planned to use had bad main web registers and they were not sure if it could be fixed or they could find another block. I know it went to a couple shops and was even discussed for me to look at it. I know whoever had it at the time, called me talking about block and he told me they had not decided what the plan was, I didn't talk to Wayne. Don't remember how long it was before the decision to stick with smallblock was made, nor who let me know that decision, but then parts were ordered and machine work done on intake.

The cam was a custom billet blank, with a 4 month lead time. It was ordered, after, not sure how long, he contacted me and said the new block needed a 55mm core instead of the previous 50mm as ordered. I contacted the grinder, relayed this info and then at a later date Wayne called back and said to just stick with the 50mm. I then relayed this information to the cam grinder. I never gave it another thought and they must have put it on the back burner. He called earlier this year asking about cam. I admitted to him that I had forgotten about it, but would call and check on it, so I did. They had forgotten about it as well, but got started and I think 3 months later, we had a cam.

As Wayne himself stated, he told me he wasn't in a hurry and I likely took advantage of that situation as I was extremely busy and had lots of other issues to deal with in the last year or so. I knew he didn't have his motor, nor was anywhere near ready to race, so didn't get it back to the front of the line soon enough, which was entirely my fault and there is no excuse.

On the matter of the invoice, I told him the truth........that it had been so long, that I could NOT remember what all was involved in the price given. Originally that price possibly included some motor parts, but I simply didn't remember and neither did he and I was working on it.

I had a parts list on my computer that I had been figuring out and when he posted here, I sent what I had to him and it had on it, what I remembered, what he had paid, and what the work had cost. There was over a $1000 dollar difference and I plainly told him that I could not remember where it was. He reminded me that I had put the injectors in his manifold and he had not supplied them. So that shaved more off the total but there was still about $500 missing that I had no idea what it was for. So as I told him here, all he has to do is let me know how much he thinks I owe him and he will get it. I think originally I was supposed to get him some lifters, but he got them elsewhere, because it appears we BOTH forgot what the original plan was. I admittedly did not write it down and it appears he did not either, because even he forgot that a cam was part of the deal and he bought one from Charlie Buck, who did the heads.

So bottom line............poor time management on my side.......poor record keeping on both sides

This has been a long and drawn out affair, as there have been numerous setbacks on his engine, for various reasons, I don't think any of which were in his control and knowing this, I did not make enough of an effort to get his intake back to the front, for which I have apologized to him numerous times. And as I said, I simply did NOT remember what the original deal was for, but I was trying to figure it out, but obviously not figuring it out fast enough. I didn't just whip up that bill and send it to him because I saw it here. I had been trying to work it out and jog my memory, by looking at things I had ordered and who they were for a and at this point, I STILL don't recall what the original deal was and he doesn't either

Last edited by Monte_Smith; 09/04/15 04:24 PM.
Re: Wade Metzinger...........your intake [Re: Monte_Smith] #1906393
09/04/15 04:47 PM
09/04/15 04:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee Offline
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dannysbee  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
I hope both parties can take the experience and move forward. We all know both are good guys. Yet we all have our faults. Life's too short and you can't have too many friends. Everyone have a nice holiday weekend.


Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
Re: Wade Metzinger...........your intake [Re: dannysbee] #1906433
09/04/15 05:50 PM
09/04/15 05:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,851
United Socialist States of Ame...
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United Socialist States of Ame...
Originally Posted By dannysbee
I hope both parties can take the experience and move forward. We all know both are good guys. Yet we all have our faults. Life's too short and you can't have too many friends. Everyone have a nice holiday weekend.

This^^^^^^^^^


The end is near.....
Re: Wade Metzinger...........your intake [Re: Monte_Smith] #1906478
09/04/15 07:16 PM
09/04/15 07:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
master
72Swinger  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
Failure to Communicate. Seen it many times.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Wade Metzinger...........your intake [Re: Monte_Smith] #1906498
09/04/15 08:12 PM
09/04/15 08:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,192
fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,192
fredericksburg,va
Been in business all my life,50 years. If an employee can't make me twice what i pay him, he's useless other than getting the work out. If talented and smart he will have his own shop. In all those years and maybe 100 workers, there where two that I could trust not to burn the place down and have the work done. iMO The only "good" employee has some type of baggage attached to keep him from leaving. The last twenty years I just did it myself without all the headaches and regs you have to put up with($$$$)

Re: Wade Metzinger...........your intake [Re: Monte_Smith] #1906512
09/04/15 08:51 PM
09/04/15 08:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quicktree Offline
I Win
Quicktree  Offline
I Win
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Monte I really think you missed the boat on this one. I don't know all the dynamics but I do know Big Squeeze is more than qualified to help you and become a partner so both of you could make some money have a good product and take care of your customers. it wont be long before you can't get customers at this pace. one unhappy customer tells everyone and the word soon spreads, just like this thread. If I were you I would go over and have a heart to heart talk make a contract between the two of you and join sides..

Re: Wade Metzinger...........your intake [Re: cudaman1969] #1906513
09/04/15 08:53 PM
09/04/15 08:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quicktree Offline
I Win
Quicktree  Offline
I Win
Q

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Been in business all my life,50 years. If an employee can't make me twice what i pay him, he's useless other than getting the work out. If talented and smart he will have his own shop. In all those years and maybe 100 workers, there where two that I could trust not to burn the place down and have the work done. iMO The only "good" employee has some type of baggage attached to keep him from leaving. The last twenty years I just did it myself without all the headaches and regs you have to put up with($$$$)
to be honest with that attitude I am surprised you ever got an employee. sorry that's just the way you come across.

Re: Wade Metzinger...........your intake [Re: Quicktree] #1906559
09/04/15 10:31 PM
09/04/15 10:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,192
fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
master
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Posts: 8,192
fredericksburg,va
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Originally Posted By Quicktree
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Been in business all my life,50 years. If an employee can't make me twice what i pay him, he's useless other than getting the work out. If talented and smart he will have his own shop. In all those years and maybe 100 workers, there where two that I could trust not to burn the place down and have the work done. iMO The only "good" employee has some type of baggage attached to keep him from leaving. The last twenty years I just did it myself without all the headaches and regs you have to put up with($$$$)
to be honest with that attitude I am surprised you ever got an employee. sorry that's just the way you come across.

Not sure what you mean about attitude, sounds like you have never been in business for yourself. Why else would you have an employee than to make you money, It's not charity. That's the problem with today's worker, they think they're owed something more than a paycheck. It's simple business, you make me money the doors stay open. If not I might as well be fishing down on the riverbank.

Re: Wade Metzinger...........your intake [Re: Monte_Smith] #1906583
09/04/15 11:30 PM
09/04/15 11:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,762
Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp Offline
master
FastmOp  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,762
Hot Rod Ridge
Quicktree is 1st round runner up again.
Mind your own business

Re: Wade Metzinger...........your intake [Re: Monte_Smith] #1906669
09/05/15 01:25 AM
09/05/15 01:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze Offline
pro stock
Big Squeeze  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
I admitted it took a long time and whatever facts are presented there is still more to the story. Yes, he paid up front, but at that time there was a real issue with the block he had and he was contemplating building a big block with PSO heads, because the block he planned to use had bad main web registers and they were not sure if it could be fixed or they could find another block. I know it went to a couple shops and was even discussed for me to look at it. I know whoever had it at the time, called me talking about block and he told me they had not decided what the plan was, I didn't talk to Wayne. Don't remember how long it was before the decision to stick with smallblock was made, nor who let me know that decision, but then parts were ordered and machine work done on intake.
That's incorrect.....I had been contemplating doing a PSO motor BEFORE I bought the small block....once I bought the small block, I was committed and there was no turning back......

The cam was a custom billet blank, with a 4 month lead time. It was ordered, after, not sure how long, he contacted me and said the new block needed a 55mm core instead of the previous 50mm as ordered. I contacted the grinder, relayed this info and then at a later date Wayne called back and said to just stick with the 50mm. I then relayed this information to the cam grinder. I never gave it another thought and they must have put it on the back burner. He called earlier this year asking about cam. I admitted to him that I had forgotten about it, but would call and check on it, so I did. They had forgotten about it as well, but got started and I think 3 months later, we had a cam.
I have no problem with lead times and that's why I was trying to get the ball rolling on all this stuff....Thing is, if you knew that you were including a cam in the 5K, the cam should have been ordered as soon as you got the money (August of 2013)......The heads were at Charlie's for softening in December of 2011 and I ordered a camshaft from him at that same time because for some reason I was under the impression that you'd advised me to get the camshaft from him (I don't remember where I got that idea)........then you told me the cam wasn't something you'd have done, so I told you to go ahead and do me another camshaft (what's another $1,000 when you have 6 digits in pile of bolts?)......When I sent the 5K, I didn't know if that included covering the new camshaft or not.......I just sent 5K like you told me to.......

As Wayne himself stated, he told me he wasn't in a hurry and I likely took advantage of that situation as I was extremely busy and had lots of other issues to deal with in the last year or so. I knew he didn't have his motor, nor was anywhere near ready to race, so didn't get it back to the front of the line soon enough, which was entirely my fault and there is no excuse.That's what I was looking for................

On the matter of the invoice, I told him the truth........that it had been so long, that I could NOT remember what all was involved in the price given. Originally that price possibly included some motor parts, but I simply didn't remember and neither did he and I was working on it.That paragraph proves that the way you run your business needs a major rethink........

I had a parts list on my computer that I had been figuring out and when he posted here, I sent what I had to him and it had on it, what I remembered, what he had paid, and what the work had cost. There was over a $1000 dollar difference and I plainly told him that I could not remember where it was. He reminded me that I had put the injectors in his manifold and he had not supplied them. So that shaved more off the total but there was still about $500 missing that I had no idea what it was for. So as I told him here, all he has to do is let me know how much he thinks I owe him and he will get it. I think originally I was supposed to get him some lifters, but he got them elsewhere, because it appears we BOTH forgot what the original plan was. I admittedly did not write it down and it appears he did not either, because even he forgot that a cam was part of the deal and he bought one from Charlie Buck, who did the heads.

So bottom line............poor time management on my side.......poor record keeping on both sides The only record keeping that I needed was to know how much the check was for because I have no idea what you charge for parts and services other than you'd told me it was $500 to flow one stage......it's your job to keep track of what you do for customers and invoice them accordingly.......

This has been a long and drawn out affair, as there have been numerous setbacks on his engine, for various reasons, I don't think any of which were in his control and knowing this, I did not make enough of an effort to get his intake back to the front, for which I have apologized to him numerous times. And as I said, I simply did NOT remember what the original deal was for, but I was trying to figure it out, but obviously not figuring it out fast enough. I didn't just whip up that bill and send it to him because I saw it here. I had been trying to work it out and jog my memory, by looking at things I had ordered and who they were for a and at this point, I STILL don't recall what the original deal was and he doesn't either


Thing is, when his first response to me on this thread was this;
"Was going to ignore you, but you just won't let it go and seem to want to do it publicly, so how about the other side of the story.....As usual, you would be thinking WRONG....".....that was a major slap in the face.....and the gloves came off.......I don't lie and and I'm not wrong........Instead of writing that and trying to make me look stupid, all he had to do was say something like; "Yeah, I apologize, Wayne....I know I've taken too long but I'll get you handled by the weekend"......and I'd have dropped it right then........

I honestly didn't want to do this......but I got forced into it......maybe Monte will rethink how he handles work load and customers.......Like most everyone here, I enjoy his tech on the forums, but I'm not a fool and I won't take being treated like one......



Originally Posted By 72Swinger
Failure to Communicate. Seen it many times.
Yep, and I tried and tried....



Originally Posted By Quicktree
Monte I really think you missed the boat on this one. I don't know all the dynamics but I do know Big Squeeze is more than qualified to help you and become a partner so both of you could make some money have a good product and take care of your customers. it wont be long before you can't get customers at this pace. one unhappy customer tells everyone and the word soon spreads, just like this thread. If I were you I would go over and have a heart to heart talk make a contract between the two of you and join sides..
That's one of the best things I've ever seen you post, Tony!!! LOL laugh2 I was actually thinking of moving farther East so I could be closer to more headsup racing action and I actually hit Monte up about that because I knew he needed the help, but he was too afraid I'd steal all his secrets..... twocents




If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
Re: Wade Metzinger...........your intake [Re: Monte_Smith] #1906674
09/05/15 01:47 AM
09/05/15 01:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 525
Can , Nova Scotia , Cape Breto...
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caper Offline
mopar
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mopar
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 525
Can , Nova Scotia , Cape Breto...
I think you are wrong one this one FastmOp, Quicktree has you on this one. you have to pay what the work is worth if you are making a full pie than the worker has to make a certain percentage of that pie for his work and qualifications and experiencing if not it does not work.


New best 10.18 , 1.40 60 ft 496 Scott Brown built, street driven 3600 lbs,654 hp , 653 ft tq
Re: Wade Metzinger...........your intake [Re: Monte_Smith] #1906686
09/05/15 02:05 AM
09/05/15 02:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,762
Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp Offline
master
FastmOp  Offline
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Posts: 5,762
Hot Rod Ridge
I just think two friends were hashing out a problem, in a public forum but still two guys that are working it out. They don't need chumps poking and prodding. I hope squeeze and Monty can still be friends after this deal. If not, it's a shame. I met the two guys together hanging out at the track, I hope they can still do that.

Re: Wade Metzinger...........your intake [Re: Monte_Smith] #1906699
09/05/15 02:30 AM
09/05/15 02:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
I Live Here
Al_Alguire  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,304
Las Vegas
I think we have had enough fun on this topic. The issues you all have can be handled offline or via PM. This is done..


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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