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Re: Aviation fuel in a drag car. OK or Bad idea? [Re: Dunnuck Racing] #188638
01/09/09 11:58 PM
01/09/09 11:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 83
Mississippi Gulf Coast
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Mroctober Offline
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Mississippi Gulf Coast
Because it cost less doesn`t mean it dont work!! some people on here buy 12.00 oil!! Ibuy 400 Dollar work just as good

Re: Aviation fuel in a drag car. OK or Bad idea? [Re: Mroctober] #188639
01/10/09 02:45 AM
01/10/09 02:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
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Bend,OR USA
I use to use avaition fuel in my race cars until I found all of the exhaust valves and seats pitted in my NHRA A/SA 1963 M.W. Belevedere, that was over thirty years ago when valves where cheaper. I have use race gas in my race motors every sense No burnt or pitted valves on race gas so far I owned a 1960 Piper Comanche airpalne for 15 yrs that had a 260 HP engine rated at 2700 RPM 540 C.I. air cooled opposed six cylinder in it, if I baby it at all it would lead foul spark plugs so I learned to lean the motor out as soon as it started and never let it loaf unless I was descending to land, I still kept the mixture fairly lean unless I was doing what is referred to as a go around and you then go to full rich for max power and lean it out as soon as you reach 3000 ft. above seal level. Avaition gas is design and made for slow turning low compression (8.5 or lees) air cooled engine, not high compression high revving race motors, avaition gas also has additives to give it a long shelf life as a lot of general avaition airplanes sit a lot between flights the specific gravity of most batches of 100 LL is around or under .690, most good race gas is higher than that


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Aviation fuel in a drag car. OK or Bad idea? [Re: bigdad] #188640
01/10/09 04:46 PM
01/10/09 04:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Whether or not avgas is suitable for a race car depends on the car/combo. If your combo's requirement exceeds the octane rating of avgas it's not suitable, for others it is.


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Re: Aviation fuel in a drag car. OK or Bad idea? [Re: John_Kunkel] #188641
01/10/09 05:02 PM
01/10/09 05:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
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aotearoa
back in the early 90's i bought into a curcuit car. on our first major closed street curcuit race during qualifying we noticed our car was slower than similarly spec'd cars. it was the car not my driving! a lil investigation found the gas we were using was av gas(supplied by crew member). one of the big name racers had a lab of sorts in his trailer, so we took him a sample of our fuel. a qwik test confirmed our problem. "it's av gas" he said, "get rid of it". he showed us in a glass capillary 3 different components of our fuel make up. burnable octane @ the top was the good stuff, below that was the additives for carb icing for flying high alt's(this doesn't burn btw) at the bottom was water(fuel is hydroscopic{absorbs water}) fuel from airfields thats kept in underground tanks absorbs moisture & the octane boils off in the heat of the day. ever since i only buy proper racegas in a sealed drum. can't make gobs of power if 15% of your fuel mix don't burn!

Re: Aviation fuel in a drag car. OK or Bad idea? [Re: rebel] #188642
01/10/09 09:04 PM
01/10/09 09:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Rio Linda, CA
Quote:

at the bottom was water(fuel is hydroscopic{absorbs water}) fuel from airfields thats kept in underground tanks absorbs moisture




You make it sound as though water is endemic to avgas. Like many other things it depends on the quality of the handling/storage. The fuel delivery system at my local neighboorhood airport has a mass of filters and water separators.

The transfer of fuel from cans, external fuel tanks, or other non-aviation transfer systems introduces the possibility of water mixed into the fuel. Race gas stored in drums can accumulate water just as easily.

Carb icing is addressed by controlling the Reid Vapor Pressure of the fuel, not by additives. Toluene (it burns) is one additive, it's used to lower the freeze point and other additives in small amounts help prevent gum formation in the system.


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Re: Aviation fuel in a drag car. OK or Bad idea? [Re: John_Kunkel] #188643
01/10/09 09:18 PM
01/10/09 09:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
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aotearoa
i'm no fuel expert John, i was only going by what i saw & was told. we ditched the av gas, bought a sealed drum of race gas, put that in the tank & we were instantly at the front of the field, no other changes. i only use fuel from sealed drums from that day on.

Re: Aviation fuel in a drag car. OK or Bad idea? [Re: rebel] #188644
01/11/09 06:25 AM
01/11/09 06:25 AM
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Posts: 8,180
Detroit, MI
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Detroit, MI
I was close to choosing AVgas testing as a senior project for school this past week, simply because it's ALWAYS a debate when someone brings it up yet NO ONE has any REAL data other than here-say and conjecture.

Since I didn't choose it for my project, here's my here-say and conjecture . It's rated at 100 RON, i've NEVER seen any MON data, also i've HEARD the way the RON test is done is DIFFERENT than the one done for vehicles. I've HEARD it actually has better storage properties than race fuel, octane does not degrade nearly as fast since planes stay on tarmacs for extended amounts of time...

My car has gone 8.0's with it with the assistance of some methanol cooling, how much it contributed to octane is unknown.

Re: Aviation fuel in a drag car. OK or Bad idea? [Re: CokeBottleKid] #188645
01/11/09 07:16 PM
01/11/09 07:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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It's not all here-say and conjecture, there have been dyno charts posted in the past showing no appreciable difference between avgas and race gas with that particular motor.

Again, avgas is not appropriate for some circumstances.


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Re: Aviation fuel in a drag car. OK or Bad idea? [Re: mopars rule] #188646
01/11/09 07:45 PM
01/11/09 07:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 716
Indiana
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65dragnet Offline
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Indiana
Mopars Rule try it , it's your choice, you may like it ! I've ran it for a number of years in my mopars from 11.5 compression to 13.5 C.R. and had no problems at all , but be aware you'll have to jet higher with the av gas. I acquired an MSDS a few years ago and the properties are real close to 110 race fuel. It was 100 Low lead.


E. Williams 65 Coronet 500 3400lbs w/d, 446, Indy EZ'S, A&A transbrake,Comp 650 lift cam, 6.50 @ 105 mph 1/8th 10.25 @ 130mph 1/4
Re: Aviation fuel in a drag car. OK or Bad idea? [Re: 65dragnet] #188647
01/11/09 08:27 PM
01/11/09 08:27 PM

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I don't know about all the scientific stuff but I ran 100LL in my dragster it was 14:1 copression and I used a 250 big shot plate on it also.Ran a best of 7.75@173mph no problems.

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