have ? about best combo
#186178
01/06/09 09:54 PM
01/06/09 09:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 416 Eagleville Tn.
rtstreet
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 416
Eagleville Tn.
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ok guys need to know what your opinion is, we are building a new car for my son and i cant decide which way to go (small or big block) car = 73 cuda, 25.5 cage, S-60 cal tracs and split mono, bob's frt end, mini tubed, 15x12 with 29.5 x 10.5 S, 727 or glide, all max effort stuff. Power adder = F-1R procharger (the biggest allowed) 1st combo = up to 365 cid small block, indy 360's big bore small stroke, only 3125 lbs. 2nd combo = up to 400 cid same but 3225 lbs. 3rd combo = up to 477 cid big block, cnc 440-1 (345 cc runner) 3225 lbs. 4th combo = up to 524 cid same but 3275 lbs. what i am wondering is will the increase in boost and the lighter weight of the 365 cid be the best choice, maybe a super small big block???, I dont have alot of experience with blowers or small blocks at this level, please ask me anything and help us sort this out. thanks moparts guru's
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Re: have ? about best combo
[Re: rtstreet]
#186179
01/06/09 10:00 PM
01/06/09 10:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington
Triple Threat
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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So no matter what its going to have an F1 procharger hanging off the front of it, you just need help figuring out how big of a motor you want to run? I'm thinking a big block with -1's with some forced induction would be well worth the 100-150# weight penalty over the 365.
Last edited by Triple Threat; 01/06/09 10:04 PM.
-Dustin 67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi 68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: have ? about best combo
[Re: Triple Threat]
#186181
01/06/09 10:10 PM
01/06/09 10:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 437 south central pa
bdaz smblk
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 437
south central pa
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I would go with 365 on leafs and rely on lots of rpm's.Won't have lots of torque to blow tires off early with a glide.That thing would hall the mail.Good luck with it and keep us posted.Hope Cam kicks butt with it.
3120lb, small block, 10.5" tire, NA, through exhaust, full int, WITH 83/4 REAR, 9.0 at 150mph
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Re: have ? about best combo
[Re: bdaz smblk]
#186182
01/06/09 11:03 PM
01/06/09 11:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Andy, this is a question we would be asking you do they make a good sb block like they do for big blocks? me and Quicktree wanted say hello to you but you had a crowd around you at the PRI show.
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: have ? about best combo
[Re: RyanJ]
#186185
01/06/09 11:27 PM
01/06/09 11:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,611 Elbridge, NY
Dart1031
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,611
Elbridge, NY
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Quote:
Quote:
do they make a good sb block like they do for big blocks?
Two letters....
That's one letter
I would think with a 'glide the BB isn't gonna blow the tires off.
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Re: have ? about best combo
[Re: sixpackgut]
#186187
01/07/09 12:27 AM
01/07/09 12:27 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,129 Cleveland
sunroofgtx
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
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Andy, I'd go with what DT said.. He's got a pretty good grip on combo's.. New drawing board , Andy ??
Join the quickest team in motorsports. Team FireCore. CustomWiresets.com
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Re: have ? about best combo
[Re: rtstreet]
#186188
01/07/09 12:28 AM
01/07/09 12:28 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I think I would go 400ci small block. With the 25.5 chassis I'm sure its going to be light enough that you can put weight anywhere you need it R3 block, you can get a large bore in it, and some good heads W-8 or W-9
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Re: have ? about best combo
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#186189
01/07/09 12:31 AM
01/07/09 12:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
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What would it need to run to be competitive. I ask because I am sure you want to be at the least competitive, also might give some of the guys here insight as to what kind of power you are talking about.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: have ? about best combo
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#186190
01/07/09 12:42 AM
01/07/09 12:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington
Triple Threat
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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Just guessing here but looking at the rules looks like Xtreme Street is what they want to run with it.
Records for Xtreme Street are 177.32 mph 7.851 ET
-Dustin 67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi 68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: have ? about best combo
[Re: Triple Threat]
#186191
01/07/09 01:16 AM
01/07/09 01:16 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 416 Eagleville Tn.
rtstreet
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 416
Eagleville Tn.
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524 most cid DT have built lots of small blocks just none with blower no w-8 only 360-1 or2, w-5, b-1ba mc record my friend cameron 7.80's and the fastest combo out of the ones you think Al would like to run 7.90's but want to go as fast as we can with what the rules allow, my challenger has been 8.20 @ 3450 477 cid and nos rules page http://www.nmcadigital.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10735
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Re: have ? about best combo
[Re: rtstreet]
#186192
01/07/09 01:39 AM
01/07/09 01:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Las Vegas
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A 477"ish BB with an aluminum block and a set of max effort B1's might be fun. Dont know a lot about the SB heads but seems to me the allowable pieces may not be the optimum choice to make the needed power. I see a weight break for Mopar up to 477 cubes would be a 3375, that is a bit of weight though.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: have ? about best combo
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#186194
01/07/09 01:50 AM
01/07/09 01:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington
Triple Threat
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
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Renton Washington
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I read it as being 3400# base weight for a 477cid supercharged big block. B1's are your best bet for a head. -50# for being pre 1974 -75# for Mopar -50# for stock suspension
Puts you at 3225# Unless i am reading something wrong.
-Dustin 67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi 68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: have ? about best combo
[Re: rtstreet]
#186198
01/07/09 12:17 PM
01/07/09 12:17 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I would say a small block may be the way to go looking at the mustangs for instance most of those run small blocks with chargers and are in the sevens or low eights depending on the class.
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Re: have ? about best combo
#186199
01/07/09 12:55 PM
01/07/09 12:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Las Vegas
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The secret is in the Heads...Not sure the legal heads for a SB Mopar will get the job done personally. But I also thin Ryan or one of the SB head guys on here can better answer that.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: have ? about best combo
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#186201
01/07/09 01:47 PM
01/07/09 01:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547 State College, PA
RyanJ
moparts member
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moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
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Quote:
The secret is in the Heads...Not sure the legal heads for a SB Mopar will get the job done personally. But I also thin Ryan or one of the SB head guys on here can better answer that.
245RP CNC INDY -1 with a 2.15"/1.625" "can" flow over 360/260 & have 2.90" of intake port cross section so..... it's in between a Ported INDY SR + a Ported INDY 440-1 flow wise/size wise...that's about maxed out INDY SB head IMO.
If W9 is legal I'd just do a 9...
The F1R is the real limiting factor to whole deal. I'm not a "racer" just an engine clown, but my thoughts would be how much TQ would the big motor make with boost (tremendous amt)& how do you hook that on cal tracs with a 10.5. Would definitely have to be a glide at that point... Especially when talking a Cent blower that comes on harder than a turbo down low..... I kind of agree with Kenny do high RPM SB although I'd do the up to 400" deal....just for sheer fact of trying to get it to hook. Lightened race block with alum heads will be pretty light motor & still allow to move weight around to rear of car to make weight.
I don't think power with any of the combo's will be the problem... If the F1R can put out 15 PSI (double atmosphere), (it lists at 38 PSI but that is all dependant on engine size it is feeding) you should be able to make 1200 out of a INDY 365 or max the F1R out at 1300-1400 at 390-400 inches.
I'd just go with whatever you're more comfortable with.
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Re: have ? about best combo
[Re: blownzoom440]
#186203
01/07/09 02:47 PM
01/07/09 02:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547 State College, PA
RyanJ
moparts member
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moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
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Quote:
with the 525" making 1300HP it would take 16/18 psi i would think not having to stuff the extra psi into a smaller 368" that may need 25lbs to makeup for less cu.in.with a int gearing of 5.4/1 the pulleys would need 1.79/1 for 7,000 rpm at max rpm,flow and the F-1R at 68,000 rpm. i just wanted to bring some info to the post to relate to.
Customer of mine 3.33" Crank, 4.185 bore....367" motor.... 16 PSI boost 5.30 @ 131 @ 3450 lbs. I think you need to rethink you're 25 PSI on the SB idea to make power.
"Your HP computed from your vehicle ET is 1,172.86 flywheel HP Your HP computed from your vehicle MPH is 1,205.30 flywheel HP"
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Re: have ? about best combo
[Re: RyanJ]
#186204
01/07/09 02:58 PM
01/07/09 02:58 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH
blownzoom440
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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thanks! the info is not exact that i posted. just my thaughts.i know there is a lot more invalved in predidcting the HP he wants. not to steel the post but my engine dyno #.s were 985HP/930TQ at 6300 with .08 correction %.it is what it is.i just keep trying to make it better/tunning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvYjTkyqrmkthanks for all your input on posts!
Last edited by METAL STORM; 01/07/09 05:58 PM.
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Re: have ? about best combo
[Re: blownzoom440]
#186205
01/07/09 03:07 PM
01/07/09 03:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547 State College, PA
RyanJ
moparts member
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moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
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Was'nt picking on you, just stating that it does'nt take alot of boost to make big power if motor is decent piece head/cam wise. That engine only makes around 600-620 NA I bet.... but then you put 16 PSI of intercooled boost on it &.... you double the power. 25 PSI on that particular motor should be making I dunno around 1600 HP? He has turned boost up but it breaks drivetrain & does'nt hook.
I hope to have mine on the chassis dyno sometime in May/June to tune it. 394 inch with 15 PSI non intercooled. I would hope it puts around ~1000-1050 to tires in street trim (not a race motor)? We'll see. Really should'nt be much of a challenge, mine should be making at least 650-670 NA based on similar engines I've dynoed NA.
That would be one nice thing about a blower motor VS turbo, so much easier to dyno them. I'd really love to dyno my turbo motor on the SF902 but almost impossible. It would take a week to get it setup on dyno.... Blower motor would'nt be too tough at all.
Last edited by RyanJ; 01/07/09 03:10 PM.
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Re: have ? about best combo
[Re: RyanJ]
#186209
01/07/09 11:46 PM
01/07/09 11:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 416 Eagleville Tn.
rtstreet
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 416
Eagleville Tn.
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Quote:
Quote:
The secret is in the Heads...Not sure the legal heads for a SB Mopar will get the job done personally. But I also thin Ryan or one of the SB head guys on here can better answer that.
245RP CNC INDY -1 with a 2.15"/1.625" "can" flow over 360/260 & have 2.90" of intake port cross section so..... it's in between a Ported INDY SR + a Ported INDY 440-1 flow wise/size wise...that's about maxed out INDY SB head IMO.
If W9 is legal I'd just do a 9...
The F1R is the real limiting factor to whole deal. I'm not a "racer" just an engine clown, but my thoughts would be how much TQ would the big motor make with boost (tremendous amt)& how do you hook that on cal tracs with a 10.5. Would definitely have to be a glide at that point... Especially when talking a Cent blower that comes on harder than a turbo down low..... I kind of agree with Kenny do high RPM SB although I'd do the up to 400" deal....just for sheer fact of trying to get it to hook. Lightened race block with alum heads will be pretty light motor & still allow to move weight around to rear of car to make weight.
I don't think power with any of the combo's will be the problem... If the F1R can put out 15 PSI (double atmosphere), (it lists at 38 PSI but that is all dependant on engine size it is feeding) you should be able to make 1200 out of a INDY 365 or max the F1R out at 1300-1400 at 390-400 inches.
I'd just go with whatever you're more comfortable with.
with good intelligent discussion, like this, we can learn alot. thanks keep it up, new wrinkles in the brain p.s. everyone else to, i dont know how quote that many
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