blow by temp fix
#1820450
05/06/15 07:14 PM
05/06/15 07:14 PM
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deaks
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I took my challenger to the track monday for the first time since i bought it a few weeks ago and it is pushing a bit of smoke out of the exhaust on one bank at high rpm. It has good oil pressure and sounds fine, makes pretty good power, unfortunately i haven't got a lot of time to mess with it at the moment, so wondered if there's anything i can stick in there to stop it smoking untill i get time to pull it out. I intend to do a comp test in the next week or so just to verify the problem or not ? Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: WILD BILL]
#1820851
05/07/15 05:36 AM
05/07/15 05:36 AM
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I thought it was valve stem seals on decel and rings on accel ? I have three other cars, one i'm in the middle of doing, my Dart is next and the challenger will have to come after that.
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: deaks]
#1820950
05/07/15 11:26 AM
05/07/15 11:26 AM
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JohnRR
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Sadly there isn't a miracle solution that will fix leaky rings.
If you don't find an intake gasket leaking then the only thing you can do is rering it ...
running up my post count some more .
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: deaks]
#1821056
05/07/15 02:15 PM
05/07/15 02:15 PM
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I'm not trying to cure it, i'm trying to reduce it, till i get round to fixing it in the winter. If it was intake surely it would be white smoke ?
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: deaks]
#1821077
05/07/15 02:41 PM
05/07/15 02:41 PM
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dogdays
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Well, you didn't tell us what color the smoke is.
If it's dark, it's fuel. But only blowing smoke out of one side doesn't indicate fuel as intake manifolds are either single plane, mostly without divider plates, or dual plane and they are nearly without exception, one side of the carb feeds two on right and two on left.
If it's bluish-gray and smells like oil, it's oil. It could be one broken ring, which is more likely than the rings on only one side going bad. It could also be an intake manifold leak, in which case you should be able to tell which one is leaking by looking at spark plugs. Actually either one of those would foul one spark plug.
If it's pure white it's coolant and you have a head gasket problem. I've had experience with unknowingly running an engine with a warped head for miles , middle of the night, and the burnt antifreeze seized the pistons. While I saved enough money to overhaul the engine, the acid from the burnt antifreeze attacked the cylinder walls and made a myriad of pits, a little over 0.010" deep.
You will get better answers from investigation and logic than you will by shotgunning tests at the engine. In most cases the engine'll tell you the answer.
JohnRR is mostly right, most of the scenarios I've outlined above will not be fixed by a bottle or two of Wynn's Motor Honey.
R.
Last edited by dogdays; 05/07/15 02:43 PM.
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: dogdays]
#1821141
05/07/15 04:26 PM
05/07/15 04:26 PM
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I didn't see the smoke as it was going down the strip at the time, someone suggested it was oil smoke but that could be a guess and it was only doing it at high rpm, car runs perfect, took it out yesterday but didn't give it any rpm because the place and the weather didn't allow that. Going back to the track with it in a couple of weeks, then taking my Dart out 3 wks after that if i get the glass doors mounted in time. Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: dogdays]
#1821228
05/07/15 06:42 PM
05/07/15 06:42 PM
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Posts: 28,067 Irving, TX
feets
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Well, you didn't tell us what color the smoke is. What kind of engine?
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: deaks]
#1821247
05/07/15 07:15 PM
05/07/15 07:15 PM
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440, hyd cam, ported 906 heads, victor int, 850 holley.
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: deaks]
#1821811
05/08/15 01:32 PM
05/08/15 01:32 PM
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JohnRR
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I'm not trying to cure it, i'm trying to reduce it, till i get round to fixing it in the winter. If it was intake surely it would be white smoke ? What color is the smoke ? Whether oil gets into the cylinders via the rings , valve seals or intake gasket it's all going to be blue. If you have white smoke that is water and it's coming from a crack in the head, the block, or the head gasket. There is no water in the intake of a big block mopar ... but you know that ...
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: deaks]
#1821852
05/08/15 02:35 PM
05/08/15 02:35 PM
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If it was water, surely it would be smoking all the time, it's only doing it under hard acceleration. I'm not sure what colour as i was running in a bracket but someone i know suggested it was oil smoke.
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: D_C]
#1822683
05/09/15 02:38 PM
05/09/15 02:38 PM
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Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Do you have a Pan Evac? Sort of a poor mans crankcase vacuum pump. It can reduce blow-by and improve ring sealing by reducing internal crankcase pressure. I currently have Pan Evacs on my '79 Jeep and my '71 Charger. DC any idea how much vac it is generating? I want to do this myself.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: deaks]
#1822745
05/09/15 04:08 PM
05/09/15 04:08 PM
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Sorry i didn't reply DC, there's an 8 hr difference between us and i've been busy working today. I've tried nothing yet but i may have the exhaust evac parts in the garage. Here's a pic of one of the plugs, oil on the threads but dry and biscuit brown everywhere else. Mick
Last edited by deaks; 05/09/15 05:04 PM.
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: deaks]
#1822755
05/09/15 04:22 PM
05/09/15 04:22 PM
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mopars4ever
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DC any idea how much vac it is generating? I want to do this myself. I put one on my 360. Mine doesn`t generate much vac but it is enough to keep oil from covering the intake and valve covers. It really depends on the exhaust and back pressure on how much vacuum you get. Also it depends on where you install it and the angle of the pipe.
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: deaks]
#1822805
05/09/15 05:25 PM
05/09/15 05:25 PM
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Some interesting options there and a lot of info i didn't know.
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: deaks]
#1823096
05/10/15 12:20 AM
05/10/15 12:20 AM
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Sorry i didn't reply DC, there's an 8 hr difference between us and i've been busy working today. I've tried nothing yet but i may have the exhaust evac parts in the garage. Here's a pic of one of the plugs, oil on the threads but dry and biscuit brown everywhere else. Mick Burning oil is a shiny black coating on the plug, what you show, on that one plug, is pretty much normal looking. What do the other 7 show?
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: 67_Satellite]
#1823206
05/10/15 04:36 AM
05/10/15 04:36 AM
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Posts: 1,373 Rancho Cucamonga, CA
D_C
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Looks like everyone has things pretty well covered. I installed the Moroso Crankcase Evacuation Kit around 2002 on my Charger. It pulls a fair vacuum at idle and improves with increased RPM. I mounted Baffle Plates inside the valve covers beneath the breathers to reduce/eliminate oil loss. http://www.moroso.com/eb/web/instructions/25900_inst.pdfLiked the end results so much, I made my own kit from hardware store 1/2-inch pipe, Smog Pump Check Valves, vinyl tubing, breathers and grommets, mounted to the headers, for use on the V8 engine in my CJ5 Jeep. As suggested, people think about the air/fuel mixture above the piston, but may forget about the air below the piston in the crankcase / cylinder block. That air has to move around in the crankcase and energy is wasted in the process and it adds to crankcase windage. Someone figured this out many years back, maybe it was a NASCAR engine builder, at least that was what I had heard back in the day, but maybe it was some amateur racer? By connecting a vacuum pump and creating a partial vacuum in the crankcase, horsepower increased. Bracket racers used to convert Smog Pumps into vacuum pumps for a similar purpose. In any event, there are benefits to creating a partial vacuum in the crankcase.
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: deaks]
#1823348
05/10/15 12:25 PM
05/10/15 12:25 PM
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dart4forte
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I took my challenger to the track monday for the first time since i bought it a few weeks ago and it is pushing a bit of smoke out of the exhaust on one bank at high rpm. It has good oil pressure and sounds fine, makes pretty good power, unfortunately i haven't got a lot of time to mess with it at the moment, so wondered if there's anything i can stick in there to stop it smoking untill i get time to pull it out. I intend to do a comp test in the next week or so just to verify the problem or not ? Mick Are you running mufflers?
“So if it’s on the internet it must be true”
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: deaks]
#1823460
05/10/15 02:45 PM
05/10/15 02:45 PM
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Yes they finish at the axle, it's a street strip car, full interior.Why do you ask ?
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: deaks]
#1823474
05/10/15 02:57 PM
05/10/15 02:57 PM
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Does the probe have to go in the collector, or can it go in the front of the exhaust ?
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: dart4forte]
#1824037
05/11/15 11:22 AM
05/11/15 11:22 AM
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dart4forte
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I took my challenger to the track monday for the first time since i bought it a few weeks ago and it is pushing a bit of smoke out of the exhaust on one bank at high rpm. It has good oil pressure and sounds fine, makes pretty good power, unfortunately i haven't got a lot of time to mess with it at the moment, so wondered if there's anything i can stick in there to stop it smoking untill i get time to pull it out. I intend to do a comp test in the next week or so just to verify the problem or not ? Mick Are you running mufflers? If you are running an evac type system and mufflers you'll have a back pressure problem. Evac systems are designed for an open system. You may have too much crankcase pressure which is pushing up through your rings. Try unhooking the evac and run some filters and see what happens.
“So if it’s on the internet it must be true”
Abe Lincoln
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: deaks]
#1824287
05/11/15 04:45 PM
05/11/15 04:45 PM
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DC I meant the steel tube, i'd rather it went just behind the collector at the front of the exhaust and out the side facing forward at 45 degrees. That way i dont have to pull the headers out. Do you run your headers open at the track or corked up ? Dart4forte I actually have caps near the front like a max wedge exhaust, although i ran it corked up the other week.
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: deaks]
#1824308
05/11/15 05:16 PM
05/11/15 05:16 PM
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I generally leave the mufflers ON and always on the street for the Charger, and mufflers always on the Jeep CJ5.
The Moroso Instructions are fairly explicit about placement of the pipe.
DRAG RACE APPLICATION 1. Remove valve covers and drill a 1-1/8” hole in each cover. On all Moroso “Stamped” Valve Covers, the holes provided will work perfectly. When determining hole location for all other covers, try to find a flat surface that is not directly over a rocker arm oil hole. NOTE: Separators must be installed in a position at right angles to the top of the valve covers to function effectively. See Fig (1) 2. Before installing rubber grommets, remember to cut the bottom ”seal area” off to allow the separator to work. Lubricate the inner surface of the grommet with a touch of oil or grease and twist in the separator. The fit should be tight to help hold crankcase vacuum. 3. Drill a 7/8” hole in the right and left collector directly behind the transition area shown in figure (2). Check valve installs on the top of the collector. 4. Place check valve probe at the proper depth and angle per drawing and weld all the way around for a complete seal. 5. Use a 5/8” high heat or high pressure hose to complete installation. See Fig (3)
I suppose you could experiment with trying to mount the Pipe as near the flange as possible and with a short collector it might work, but then again, it may not be very effective as compared to having the Pipe at the merge-point where all the header tubes meet in the collector.
I know it was a fair amount of work to remove and drill holes in almost New headers, but though I had similar thoughts about mounting the pan Evac pipe in the exhaust pipe instead, from all I read, I didn't think that would be sufficiently effective. Since this isn't a true vacuum pump, I figured I needed the best pipe placement possible and mounting it in the collector was the only recommended placement. I didn't want to go to all that trouble and have it not work.
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: deaks]
#1824420
05/11/15 08:11 PM
05/11/15 08:11 PM
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The moroso instructions show the pipe on the top of the collector, i will weld it like your pic because i can do that with the headers on. Do you run pcv's as well ?
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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Re: blow by temp fix
[Re: deaks]
#1824800
05/12/15 08:47 AM
05/12/15 08:47 AM
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I'm thinking of connecting at a 45 degree angle on the side towards the sill of the car, that way i can fit it in situ. What's your feelings on the argument re not using evac on a street car. Thanks for all your help as well DC.
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200# best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft best 60ft 1.36
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