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3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please #181180 01/02/09 12:46 AM 01/02/09 12:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,271 Vista, California 6 67Satty OP pro stock
67Satty OP pro stock 6 Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,271 Vista, California	'll be ordering up a center section in the next month or so for my '67 Satellite Street/Strip car. The particulars of the motor are .040 over 440, TRW 2355's at zero deck, 9.75:1 compression, 238 @ .050, .534 lift hydraulic cam, unported 452 heads, Hooker 1 and 7/8" headers, Performer RPM, Holley 850 DP, FBO Ignition. The trans has a 9.5" Dynamic Street/Strip converter, 4200 flash. I'll run 9X28 slicks at the strip. I'll be driving it to the strip, maybe 50 miles away. Other than that, I'll take it to cruise nights on weekends. I'm not worried about RPMs on the highway, more worried about best ET at the strip. It will be raced on both 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile. Thanks for any input, I'm trying to get back into this on a budget after a 20+ year hiatus.

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: 67Satty] #181181 01/02/09 12:47 AM 01/02/09 12:47 AM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 3,097 back in Georgia dthemi master
dthemi master Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 3,097 back in Georgia	4.10

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: dthemi] #181182 01/02/09 12:49 AM 01/02/09 12:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,138 Central NC gch master
gch master Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,138 Central NC	Not that you asked but ported heads would go from to .

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: dthemi] #181183 01/02/09 12:50 AM 01/02/09 12:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 614 Michigan G Get-X mopar
Get-X mopar G Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 614 Michigan	Quote: 4.10 '65 Belvedere '68 GTX '57 Dodge pickup

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: Get-X] #181184 01/02/09 12:55 AM 01/02/09 12:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 3,097 back in Georgia dthemi master
dthemi master Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 3,097 back in Georgia	Quote: Quote: 4.10 4.30 would work too

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: Get-X] #181185 01/02/09 12:55 AM 01/02/09 12:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 396 California, USA P Phil Saran enthusiast
Phil Saran enthusiast P Joined: Nov 2006 Posts: 396 California, USA	For the convertor you have and the rest of your combo go with the 4:10. If you were to go with more convertor I would say maybe a 4:30, still streetable, but not for a 50 mile drive to the strip. Just my Phil Saran Parker, Colorado

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: Phil Saran] #181186 01/02/09 01:26 AM 01/02/09 01:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,949 land of 10,000______'s B BDS871Cuda top fuel
BDS871Cuda top fuel B Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,949 land of 10,000______'s	Sounds like a fun ride! I vote 4.10's Snap your neck, mega G-force launch, is all I want!

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: BDS871Cuda] #181187 01/02/09 02:01 AM 01/02/09 02:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,319 Chicago Burbs sthemi master
sthemi master Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,319 Chicago Burbs	4:10s , you will like em.. Video Little Red Wagon Indy Nats,BurnoutContest

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: 67Satty] #181188 01/02/09 02:55 AM 01/02/09 02:55 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	I bet i'm the only one that will say 3.90 but i think they will give you better top end, plus wit hall that tq that 440 will have with that stall the 3.90 may net better traction. The only way i would go 4.10 is if i planned on some heads that flowed over 300 cfm. If you plan to stay with the stock heads for a while the 3.90 is what i would run.

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please #181189 01/02/09 09:26 AM 01/02/09 09:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,274 s.w.fl B bonefish master
bonefish master B Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,274 s.w.fl	410,i changed my street car from 430,s to 410,s and love it.the 430,s had alot more umph but were a little to much for my liking on the street.

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: 67Satty] #181190 01/02/09 09:55 AM 01/02/09 09:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,923 NC 440Jim I Live Here
440Jim I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,923 NC	There will not be much change in performance at the track. If you hook it, the 4.10 may give you about 0.02 better sixty foot. With your 28" tires and hydraulic cam, I would keep the finish line rpm to 6000. Use the on line calculators and your target mph. I really like 3.91 gears with 28" tires on street cars, but 4.10 might be slightly better on the track, but you will live with a couple hundred extra rpm driving on the street. 1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: 440Jim] #181191 01/02/09 12:03 PM 01/02/09 12:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 401 Ohio, USA Dr-Dave2 mopar
Dr-Dave2 mopar Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 401 Ohio, USA	http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm Looks like you have a real good combination going so far, that thing should have a real nice flat torque curve..well done! do the math 3.91s will only be 0.02 to 0.03 slower & less gear will make for a more consistent bracket car. Consistancy wins races, not low E.T. 3.91s or less (gasp!) will make for a more enjoyable ride back home after a good day of racing... and... just maybe... to the bank to cash the winners check! 4917637-3939027-Moroso.jpg (101 downloads) Last edited by Dr-Dave2; 01/02/09 05:24 PM.

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: Dr-Dave2] #181192 01/02/09 12:20 PM 01/02/09 12:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 614 Michigan G Get-X mopar
Get-X mopar G Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 614 Michigan	Quote: http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm do the math 3.91s will only be .002 to .003 slower & less gear will make for a more consistent bracket car. Consistancy wins races, not low E.T. 3.91s or less (gasp!) will make for a more enjoyable ride back home after a good day of racing... and... just maybe... to the bank to cash the winners check! He asked what gear makes the best ET. And using your line of thought, he should remove the stroker(after all, it would be more consistant with a 318) to prevent possible traction issues. Using 4.10s or even 4.30s (gasp!)will increase performance and make for a funner car to drive. '65 Belvedere '68 GTX '57 Dodge pickup

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: 67Satty] #181193 01/02/09 12:23 PM 01/02/09 12:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 13,354 Marion, South Carolina [><] an8sec70cuda I Live Here
an8sec70cuda I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 13,354 Marion, South Carolina [><]	Go with 4.10s. CHIP CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: an8sec70cuda] #181194 01/02/09 12:36 PM 01/02/09 12:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,379 MD Kevins493 top fuel
Kevins493 top fuel Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,379 MD	We had almost the same combo in the 64 Plymouth. We ran 3.91's, but felt the 60ft and ET would be better with 4.10's, but with a 28" drag radial, the rpm was over 6000 at the finish line with the 3.91's and the same converter as you (drag radials don't grow so the finish line rpm is significantly higher) With stock heads (template ported), it ran out of steam over 5500. Ran a best of 11.74 @ 114. 4917705-64atCapitolCrop.jpg (104 downloads) Last edited by Kevins440; 01/02/09 02:19 PM.

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: 67Satty] #181195 01/02/09 12:47 PM 01/02/09 12:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 22,873 Chicken coop dustergirl340 Chicken Little
dustergirl340 Chicken Little Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 22,873 Chicken coop	3.91's for my Duster is my personal limit for a street car. Mine does get driven on the freeway on occasion though. It gets bracket-raced on weekends during the season, and 3.91's made for the best consistency (doesn't sound like you care about that though if you are going for best ET).

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: 440Jim] #181196 01/02/09 05:21 PM 01/02/09 05:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 486 IL knyech1 mopar
knyech1 mopar Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 486 IL	Quote: There will not be much change in performance at the track. If you hook it, the 4.10 may give you about 0.02 better sixty foot. With your 28" tires and hydraulic cam, I would keep the finish line rpm to 6000. Use the on line calculators and your target mph. I really like 3.91 gears with 28" tires on street cars, but 4.10 might be slightly better on the track, but you will live with a couple hundred extra rpm driving on the street. knyech1- '71 Sassy Grass Demon 340/904. Pump gas, 1.61 60ft, 7.439 1/8 @ 95mph, 11.824 1/4 @ 111mph "Not too bad for a pump gas 340, full of used parts and hillbilly ported stock heads." - V.B. '03 2500 5.9L HO 6-spd on 35's. 395hp/755ft-lb at tires.

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: knyech1] #181197 01/02/09 09:43 PM 01/02/09 09:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	Thats very close to my 440 combo in my 63. I run 906 heads that I did some port work on myself. The bottom end is stock but I used KB quench dome pistons so I could get quench with the 906 heads and run on 92 pump at the 10.0 comp I built into it. But I run the solid MP .557 cam with the Holley Street Dominator intake and a 850 DP. I would like to get bigger headers as I use Hedman 1-3/4 tubes because they came with the car brand new in the box. I also use the same 9.5 Dynamic convertor that drives great on the street and flashes about 4200. I use 4.30's with 29 x 11.5 Hoosier QTP tires and I drive it on the highway all the time turning 3200 rpm at 60 mph. I shift by feel and it is right about 6200 when I shift and then I trap about 6300 and it still feels like it's still pulling. It has run 11.50's @ almost 117 mph at 3700 lbs and I drive it the 45 miles to my local track. I like the 4.10's with a 28" tire on a solid cam but you may run out of steam with the hydraulic cam. I would go for the 4.10's as you can always go to a 29" tire if it runs out of steam and needs it. Good luck , Ron Last edited by 383man; 01/02/09 09:46 PM.

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: 383man] #181198 01/03/09 05:05 PM 01/03/09 05:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,923 NC 440Jim I Live Here
440Jim I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,923 NC	Quote: I use 4.30's with 29 x 11.5 Hoosier QTP tires and I drive it on the highway all the time turning 3200 rpm at 60 mph. I shift by feel and it is right about 6200 when I shift and then I trap about 6300 Remember, 67Satty's hydraulic cam and unported 452 heads won't be making much power over 6000 rpm. Not like a solid lifter cam. Last edited by 440Jim; 01/03/09 05:07 PM.

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: 440Jim] #181199 01/03/09 06:14 PM 01/03/09 06:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	Quote: Quote: I use 4.30's with 29 x 11.5 Hoosier QTP tires and I drive it on the highway all the time turning 3200 rpm at 60 mph. I shift by feel and it is right about 6200 when I shift and then I trap about 6300 Remember, 67Satty's hydraulic cam and unported 452 heads won't be making much power over 6000 rpm. Not like a solid lifter cam. Good point Jim. Maybe he should go with the 3.91's. Ron

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: 383man] #181200 01/03/09 09:50 PM 01/03/09 09:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,271 Vista, California 6 67Satty OP pro stock
67Satty OP pro stock 6 Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,271 Vista, California	Thanks for all the replies everyone! Yeah, the unported iron heads are kinda my weak link but easy enough to replace with some budget aluminum heads in the future when I have the extra dough. If I had to do it all over again, I would've gone with a solid cam too. I've run a solid cam on a street car before and I don't remember it being that big a hassle.

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: bonefish] #181201 01/03/09 10:25 PM 01/03/09 10:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,537 PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA superwrench master
superwrench master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,537 PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA	Quote: 410,i changed my street car from 430,s to 410,s and love it.the 430,s had alot more umph but were a little to much for my liking on the street. 4.10's!! If your running street 26"/27" tires, you'll not like the 4.30's. Even 28" tires will buzz the RPM's a little too high for general comfort with 4.30's. It would be a bear at freeway speeds.

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: 67Satty] #181202 01/03/09 11:41 PM 01/03/09 11:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,123 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,123 Bend,OR USA	Quote: Thanks for all the replies everyone! Yeah, the unported iron heads are kinda my weak link but easy enough to replace with some budget aluminum heads in the future when I have the extra dough. If I had to do it all over again, I would've gone with a solid cam too. I've run a solid cam on a street car before and I don't remember it being that big a hassle. Don't feel bad about looking back and wanting to change things, nobody gets it right the first time , mainly do to finding out what you really want after you get the car done I would run the 4:10 or lower for your present combination. If your thinking of a stroker in the future then stick with the 4:10 for now If no stroker then thank about a set of 4:30 or 4:56, the stocker style 440 need all the help they can get on the line to move the mass the first 50 ft. Another really good option is to install a 2:75 ratio low gear set in the trans now and leave the 4:10 rear gears in with the stocker style C.I. motor The low gear set really helps the off the line perforamnce and deosn't hurt the cruise RPMs in high gear Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: Cab_Burge] #181203 01/04/09 01:06 PM 01/04/09 01:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,872 Weddington, N.C. Streetwize master
Streetwize master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,872 Weddington, N.C.	I'd go 4.10...it's only a ~5% difference and you can always opt to run a taller tire to knock it down to an Effective 3.91 if you were'nt 100% sold on it. Conversely If you didn't like the 3.91 I doubt you'd want to consider running a shorter tire to get an Effective 4.10. WIZE World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI In Car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0

Re: 3.91 or 4.10? Help Me Decide Please [Re: Streetwize] #181204 01/04/09 01:43 PM 01/04/09 01:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI D dizuster master
dizuster master D Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI	Quote: Another really good option is to install a 2:75 ratio low gear set in the trans now and leave the 4:10 rear gears in with the stocker style C.I. motor The low gear set really helps the off the line perforamnce and deosn't hurt the cruise RPMs in high gear Of course at $475 for the 727 low gear set I don't think that really falls under "budget"... If you don't care about RPM on the street, gear it for the track. 115mph with 28" tire and 6% converter slip gives you right on 6,000 with the 4.10...

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