Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Crank scrapers - HP increases? #180969
01/01/09 09:18 PM
01/01/09 09:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
Moparmal Offline OP
master
Moparmal  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
Wondering if anyone has some real data on improvements in ET / HP using a crank scraper?

Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: Moparmal] #180970
01/01/09 09:33 PM
01/01/09 09:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
I rememeber reading a article in a car mag. several years back(10 to ?) that said that on a small block Chevy that made around 600 hp at 7000 rpm the crank scraper added around 20 hp at 7000 rpm but wasn't worth any power or Tque below 5000 rpm on that dyno I wasn't there and didn't see it, like most magazine articles, so take that for what it is worth. I do make my own on all motors that will be raced at the drags now I shoot for between .030 and .045 clearances to the rods and crankshaft oo a steel rod motor in a cast iron block. Add another .030 clearnce on aluminum rods or a endurance motor or a street motor using a cast iron block.


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: Cab_Burge] #180971
01/01/09 10:00 PM
01/01/09 10:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
dthemi Offline
master
dthemi  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
We did a 588 hemi one time with an old Barton pan that had no scraper or windage tray of any kind in it. The motor made over 35 more hp more after putting a good pair of scrapers and a proper tray. That was on the dyno, and it made just over a thousand total.

Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: Moparmal] #180972
01/01/09 10:14 PM
01/01/09 10:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,892
Florida
Locomotion Offline
master
Locomotion  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,892
Florida
Unfortunately, I don't have any comparisons to offer. But I felt they would help and do have a set in my current and next engine. We have restrictions on oil pan designs, but are allowed deeper sumps. We can do whatever we want inside, but I never felt comfortable with windage trays, especially with a deeper sump that keeps the oil level further away from the rotating assembly. I do like the idea of a properly designed tray/scraper combo. I fabricated a crude one several years ago, but it wasn't as sturdy as it needed to be. Haven't had time to experiment lately.

Crank Scrapers

Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: Locomotion] #180973
01/01/09 10:49 PM
01/01/09 10:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
Moparmal Offline OP
master
Moparmal  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
Those improvements are on some pretty big HP# motors - Im wondering if you'd see much on a 400HP Small block ?

Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: Moparmal] #180974
01/01/09 10:53 PM
01/01/09 10:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
Too Many Posts
slantzilla  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149
Park Forest, IL
I have a scraper and a tray in my Slant. Mr. Jeffrey and I have discussed how much they are worth many times. We feel that 10 horse is probably about right. According to the power calculators mine makes 370 on the hose.


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: Moparmal] #180975
01/01/09 10:54 PM
01/01/09 10:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
dthemi Offline
master
dthemi  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
I can't say exactly how much, but can assure you it will be worth power. The farther you can keep the crank away from the oil, and the more you can get off the crank the more power you'll make. Ideally like a dry sump there would be no oil in the pan, just a big decompression area in as much vacuum as could be produced.

Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: dthemi] #180976
01/02/09 03:29 PM
01/02/09 03:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 110
Concord California
E
Evil_Ways Offline
member
Evil_Ways  Offline
member
E

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 110
Concord California
Who makes crank scrapers for small and big block Mopars.

Last edited by Evil_Ways; 01/02/09 03:32 PM.
Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: Evil_Ways] #180977
01/02/09 03:38 PM
01/02/09 03:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 656
G
griff70440 Offline
mopar
griff70440  Offline
mopar
G

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 656

Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: griff70440] #180978
01/02/09 03:57 PM
01/02/09 03:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,103
Phila Pa
S
scatpacktom Offline
master
scatpacktom  Offline
master
S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,103
Phila Pa
Click on the link in Locomotions post

Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: dthemi] #180979
01/02/09 04:09 PM
01/02/09 04:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,229
In The Hills
J
jughed Offline
pro stock
jughed  Offline
pro stock
J

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,229
In The Hills
what effects do screens have?? same as scrapers??

Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: jughed] #180980
01/02/09 05:42 PM
01/02/09 05:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
T
Triple Threat Offline
master
Triple Threat  Offline
master
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
Screens are just designed to limit and slow the back splashing of oil onto the crank.

Thats how I have understood it.


-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: dthemi] #180981
01/02/09 06:24 PM
01/02/09 06:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981
SE Michigan
TS3303 Offline
top fuel
TS3303  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981
SE Michigan
Quote:

I can't say exactly how much, but can assure you it will be worth power. The farther you can keep the crank away from the oil, and the more you can get off the crank the more power you'll make. Ideally like a dry sump there would be no oil in the pan, just a big decompression area in as much vacuum as could be produced.




Darren have you seen similar gains with a dry sump and scraper?

Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: TS3303] #180982
01/02/09 07:19 PM
01/02/09 07:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
dthemi Offline
master
dthemi  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
Scrapers help in dry sumps just like a wet sump. The oil tries to wrap up all over the crank even in a dry sump. the more you can scrape off the better. I like big dry sump pans with scrapers and screens, and a big bulge on the side for the oil to get slung into.

Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: dthemi] #180983
01/02/09 07:42 PM
01/02/09 07:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
master
B G Racing  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
Quote:

Scrapers help in dry sumps just like a wet sump. The oil tries to wrap up all over the crank even in a dry sump. the more you can scrape off the better. I like big dry sump pans with scrapers and screens, and a big bulge on the side for the oil to get slung into.


Windage trays,baffeling,and simple direction oil catches will gain you 10 to 20 Hp.Elaborate closefitting scrapers,wide block(oil pan rails),wide pans,drain down control with proper crankcase ventalation will net you much more.Determining how much depends on the oil control factored by the amount of oil passing from the clearences that splash lube the rotating parts as well as the cylinder walls.Scraper minimize the splash oil and most componants can live on suspended mist lubercation.I wouldn't recommend it for long duration running,but it would be excellent for short duration race engines.

Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: B G Racing] #180984
01/03/09 01:30 AM
01/03/09 01:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
Moparmal Offline OP
master
Moparmal  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
So not a good idea for a street duty car then?

Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: Moparmal] #180985
01/03/09 02:36 AM
01/03/09 02:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
Quote:

So not a good idea for a street duty car then?


I think the key to BG statement is the proper crankcase ventilation, IE vacume pump, which will probally lead to oil starvation on the wrist pins and other parts. I drive my Duster on the street with 5W20 wt. Valvoline petroleum oil with a PCV and valve cover breathers, no sign of oil starvation on any parts in three years. I shift the motor at 7300 rpm at the track The crankshaft scraper helps keep oil in the oil pan and frees up some HP above 5000 rpm on the big stroker motors


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: Locomotion] #180986
01/03/09 07:05 PM
01/03/09 07:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 411
Portersville, Pa
1badx Offline
mopar
1badx  Offline
mopar

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 411
Portersville, Pa
Quote:

I never felt comfortable with windage trays, especially with a deeper sump that keeps the oil level further away from the rotating assembly.




I am running my first deep sump/aluminum rod/stock stroke engine and saw this thread and have to ask what are your thoughts on running a windage tray. I have always run one with a stock pan.
Should I run a windage tray with the Milodon 10qt pan and aluminum rods?

Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: 1badx] #180987
01/03/09 07:28 PM
01/03/09 07:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
dthemi Offline
master
dthemi  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
Yes

Re: Crank scrapers - HP increases? [Re: 1badx] #180988
01/03/09 07:57 PM
01/03/09 07:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,892
Florida
Locomotion Offline
master
Locomotion  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,892
Florida
1badx,

Since I don't have the resources to confirm things myself, I have to make "educated guesses" and can't guarantee anything. It's tough to imagine the "hurricane" happening inside the crankcase. But I've been happy with my results so far. The Mopar small block trays look like they would hold too much oil in them, even when the vents are opened up. A tray I bought 25+ years ago from Ed Hamburger was modified with extra vents to help. Most of the small block Stock racers and their engine builders don't use one. Like I said earlier, I liked my multi-scraper tray with screens and wish I could have put it on a dyno. But it wasn't sturdy enough to hadle a few seasons of abuse.

If you have a big block, a scraper wouldn't be as effective as in a small block because of the block skirts. But I've heard of big block racers getting pretty creative with them. Aluminum rods may permit more oil to be introduced and tray clearances would be closer. But big block & Hemi racers would know better for those engines.

Page 1 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1