The non lock up valve body is different from the lockup valve body. The lockup valve body uses a boost valve to up the pressure to the converter clutch. Non lockup and lockup input shafts are different as is the reaction shaft. I'm not sure you can swap a lockup valve body and a non lockup valve body.

So your valve body has 3 wires correct? The center wire is 12 volts ignition hot. The forward wire is the O/D solenoid and the rear wire is the lockup solenoid.

This was running last year... I changed out the input shaft and the
pump to allow for a standard 727 high stall conv... I'm pretty sure
I have it wired right but I'm gonna check it... but IF it were wired
backward.. what would happen.... I was using the lock up VB and
still have it in there now... like I said.. this was working last
year but I had another thing go wrong so I pulled it

Yeah but you were running it with the lockup converter, input and pump. The fluid path is different between the two and it's in the reaction shaft of the pump. The valve body is accordingly different as well. I believe you will need a non lockup single solenoid valve body.

With you configuration I have no idea what would happen if you wired it backwards. I've only seen one guy put a lockup reaction shaft in a non lockup transmission. It didn't fill the converter, turned a bunch of parts blue.

Last year I was running this same set up... 727 pump and input
shaft.. I pulled it out because of a sticky governor

OK, I get what you're saying. It sounded like you just changed all that stuff.

In this case it sounds like there may be a problem in the O/D. I don't have an elements in use chart here, that would help. But if it's locking up in third and not when switching on O/D then I doubt it's the wiring.

I was gonna test this in 2nd gear to see if the wheel speed
and tach showed if the OD is going on... if it is, then its
wired right

Test it in 3rd. I don't think it's possible to get O/D in second.

With a manual switch it is possible... I was running OD in
all the forward gears last year... I tried to flip the OD on
and off while in 3rd/high and with the OD applied it locks up
but flip it off and its fine

You have a problem in the O/D then.

Sorta figured this much but was wondering if it could/can be in
the valve body.. this was torn down for cleaning... or if I have
to pull the trans out and tear it apart
thanks

I doubt it's in the valve body but you could just pull the O/D unit off and take it apart.

The way I built this car I cant pull the back off the trans..
I have to pull the engine and trans together... no big deal
if I have to pull it

Your OWC, spring and roller in the OD section is backwards, and yes, it can be done. When OD (4th) gear is commanded, the OD brake clutches apply, the OD OWC (one way clutch) must be able to freewheel. If not , you have a bind up.
OR, you have a setup, clearance problem between the OD direct clutches an the OD brake clutches, but highly unlikely. It would have to be off a ton, and if the OD direct clutches were too tight and slipping, reverse would be affected.

Pat

Pat, I had the same thought path as you did (I was the one who built this trans for Mike).

If the OD roller was seized it would absolutely act like this.

You sound like a man who speaks from experience that the spring and roller in the OD can be backwards (upside down). However I'm not sure how that's possible, or if it would even act like this if you did?

The spring cage is made in such a way that the top lip (when assembled correctly) can not pass through the outer race. If you try to put it in upside down then the cage won't assemble. This was a brand new roller/cage assembly. Also, if the springs were forcing the rollers away from the ramps, then I believe the roller clutch would never lock up regardless of direction. The rollers would always be held off the ramps no matter which way the roller was spun?

The other thing that doesn't make sense is that Mike had this trans working in 1st and 2nd last year with the OD turned on (Manual switch). He says it would actually over drive in 1st and 2nd. This is against what normal valve bodies would do, but I have no idea what the trans go kit allows?

Now the OD switch does not cause any issues in 1st/2nd... only direct. If the roller was in backwards/upside down, and could cause an issue as you described it should do it in 1st and 2nd too... not just 3rd. This also would eliminate the clutch stackup height being wrong causing the issue. UNLESS Mike was mistaken last year and the OD never actually was doing anything in 1st or 2nd.

In that case it would open back up all of the OD issues (tight clutch or roller clutch).

I don't see how the clutch clearance could do it though. You're literally turning the OD direct clutches off when the piston is applied. If the piston moves far enough to apply the OD clutches, is it even possible that the direct clutches could still be on? I could see if the direct clutches were screwed up in that they had an extra clutch in them or something, that the stack might be so tight the OD piston could not move at all. But in that case this limited movement wouldn't allow the OD clutches to apply anyway?

I told Mike to take the car out tomorrow and drive it in manual second. With some speed up flip the OD switch and see if it actually "shifts". If it does... the OD unit would seem to be functioning correctly and would lead me to a valvebody (Check ball?) or wiring issue somehow causing the reverse/low band to apply.

The other thing Mike and I talked about tonight was the wiring. The connector was lost this winter and the trans was re-wired. With this rebuilt manual valve body/transgo kit that's in this thing, I have no idea what would happen if you turned the lock up circuit on. Looking at the valve body flow diagrams it doesn't appear that fluid could get from the LU circuit into the low band anyway, but who knows with the trans go kit that's in there I suppose.

Any/all help is welcome...

I have a 518 non lockup trans swapped into an older truck. I use a switch to turn on o/d manually. It isn't tied into a brake switch or any pressure switch. With the OD switch in the "on" position, it will not go into OD until 3rd gear. However... If the switch is left in the "on" position, and the truck downshifts (as in coming to a stop) it will stay in OD through 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
Is this how this trans is/was functioning? Just curious as to if it can start in OD?
My trans is a factory built non lock up, so it may not act as yours does.

Well now we have some more information. I can't answer for the valve body but like TRENDZ says a normal 518 will not allow OD until it's in 3rd gear. Maybe, possibly, the transgo modifications allow this. This could possibly have done some damage, I don't know.

Mike, did you take the OD unit apart when you dealt with the governor valve? I have seen the small bushing between the intermediate and output shafts crack and break into small pieces. This could possibly be jamming the inner race of the over running clutch.

No we didnt take the OD apart.. we put in a new/used unit
EDIT
I took the day off and went fishing so tomorrow I'll take it
out on the road and see if the OD works in 1st and 2nd and I'll
check the wiring

Mike OD was apart, replaced the Torrington and rear planet that had chewed up remember?

How did you get a 518 to lock up? My first gen Cummins had a well built 518, I would have loved a lock up switch