Super Stock spring questions
#179674
12/31/08 02:16 PM
12/31/08 02:16 PM
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Hello all. This is first time on this forum, so be easy with me.  I know you guys are going to say [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean], but here goes.  I have a Ford F250. I'm in the planning stages right now to make a new frame for it to meet NHRA/IHRA 9.99 to 8.50 ET spec. I going a little overkill on the spec just for safety. This is 99% daily street use. I do plan on taking it to the strip once in a great while. I'm building a 460 for it thats going to put out around 600+ hp. It's going to have a 4-speed toploader in it with a 4.30 geared locker 9-inch rear. The tires in the rear will be Hoosiers 31/16.5/17 Pro Streeters. It will have a straight axle on leafs in the front. I'm thinking on using super stock springs for the rear suspension, but I have questions for you guys: 1) Would the 002,003 springs work? From the reading I've done on this forum, the new springs are made in Mexico. Is the quality good? Can Eaton Spring Company make a set if the quality is not good from Mexico? 2) I'm looking to mount the springs under the frame. I'm thinking of using straight 2x3 tubing. The problem I'm looking at is I want for the bottom of the frame to be around 18-20 inches from the ground at the rear axle centerline. Can the axle be mounted under the spring, and will the spring still do it's job on controlling axle wrap. I know the axle is normally mounted on top of the springs. 3) I'm planning on doing drawing and figuring out all the geometry, but normally, how much lower is the front eye of the spring than the rear one from the ground? I'm planning on the frame having about a 1.5 degree rake forward. 4) Is a 4-inch long shackle considered optimal? 5) If I mount the springs at different heights, so the rear of the truck sits level, does that mess up launch of the truck at the drag strip if I decide to use slicks with it? Thanks guys, I know this is a little off-beat, but you do have the best rear leaf suspensions. Dave
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Re: Super Stock spring questions
#179675
12/31/08 04:59 PM
12/31/08 04:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,551
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
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Well it would help to know the weight of the truck first.I have installed a few sets SS springs on my car and it always seems that I go too light.There are some good Ford stick racers over on www.umtrnorth.com that could critique your setup and guide you as well. Gus 
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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Re: Super Stock spring questions
[Re: Hot 340]
#179678
12/31/08 07:58 PM
12/31/08 07:58 PM
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Quote:
If you are building it to go 9.90 to 8.50 I would build the rear suspension to match-with a ladder bar or 4-link setup. Springs can work but why do it twice? It's obsolete technology and you probably are gonna want to get rid of them eventually. 
I'm only building to those specs for safety. I'd be happy with 11 sec. runs.
I'm building it old school, hence the leaf springs and solid front axle. Believe me, when I get this finished, this will be it.
I'm planning for 3600 # or lighter.
Thanks,
Dave
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Re: Super Stock spring questions
#179679
01/01/09 11:04 AM
01/01/09 11:04 AM
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Posts: 3,059
Swamps of South Jersey.
wildcargo
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Quote:
I'm looking to mount the springs under the frame. I'm thinking of using straight 2x3 tubing. The problem I'm looking at is I want for the bottom of the frame to be around 18-20 inches from the ground at the rear axle centerline. Can the axle be mounted under the spring, and will the spring still do it's job on controlling axle wrap. I know the axle is normally mounted on top of the springs.
Dave
Dave I have an article from back in 65 on Landy's alterd wheelbace car with the strate front axle and the rear in that car was under the spring the car was sittin high front to back.
I have run SS/spring for a long time if I was building I would go with ladderbars unless you want the look of SS/springs 
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Re: Super Stock spring questions
[Re: wildcargo]
#179680
01/01/09 02:10 PM
01/01/09 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Dave I have an article from back in 65 on Landy's alterd wheelbace car with the strate front axle and the rear in that car was under the spring the car was sittin high front to back.
I have run SS/spring for a long time if I was building I would go with ladderbars unless you want the look of SS/springs
I'm into the old Mopars (one day I'm going to have my '68 Charger with a Hemi  ) and this is what gave me the idea. In a Hot Rod achive series #6 Hemi Power (Winter 2007) on page 57, it shows Dick Landy's '64 Dodge extremely altered wheelbase car. It has 676 SS/A on the side of it. The article states the photo was an alternate version of the one that was in the Hot Rod magazine, February '65 issue.
In the photo, it appears the axle is under the springs. That car has a slight rake forward. It sits very high, but for my truck, that is the look I'm looking for.
I've done 4-links before on friend's cars, and I don't like the look of ladder bars at all. I want to have the look of leaf springs. As shown by your car, you can make leafs perform well.
There is not too much info on setting up the SS springs on custom deals. I read alot on the old Mopar FX cars, but not too much is said on the actual measurements, hence my questions.
I did check out the 4-speed forum, and I'll be asking questions over there as well. I figured since you guys are the ones mostly running the SS springs, this would be the best place to get info on them, and setting them up.
Thanks for the replies, and keep them coming. 
BTW, that is a very cool car, wildcargo. That is the look I'm going for, plain-jane with a bite. 
Dave
Last edited by DJOHAGIN; 01/01/09 02:16 PM.
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Re: Super Stock spring questions
#179682
01/02/09 09:49 AM
01/02/09 09:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,059
Swamps of South Jersey.
wildcargo
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On the SS/springs there are 2 rear lenths 35"and 36", you can set up to run bouth by having 2 rear mounting points. I am running a 1/2 leaf on top of the spring pack from the front spring eye to the back of the spring perch and all the leafs are clamped at the front of each section. I allso run a shock from a 94 Dakota 4x4 pickup. I allso run aluminum bushing in the front spring eye. if you have a mopar chassis book lots of info in there not just in the spring section page 215 in my old book mid season chassis tune up. Have fun go fast PM me with any questions I will help if I can.
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Re: Super Stock spring questions
#179685
01/03/09 12:24 PM
01/03/09 12:24 PM
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I'm rephasing my original four questions:
1) On picking which SS spring to use, is it going to be a trial and error? First try the 002,003 springs, and if too light, go to the 3400-3600# springs? Is that why you stated wildcargo that I should put two rear holes for both lengths of SS springs?
2) Will I encounter anything weird by mounting the axle under the spring?
3) I found some info on mounting the springs. It states the leaf spring should be mounted at a 5 degree rake forward, measuring from the front and rear eyes centerline. Do you guys find that this works?
4) What are the stock shackle lenghts? I'm assuming the different models had different lenghts. The info I found stated you don't want to go more than 1-inch beyond stock. Is this correct?
5) Has anyone mounted the springs at different heights, so the rear of their car sits level, and if you did, did it cause problems with the launch at the dragstrip with slicks?
It is not important weather or not the truck sits level or not in the back. I was just wondering if it makes a difference, thats all.
Thanks guys,
Dave
Last edited by DJOHAGIN; 01/03/09 12:28 PM.
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Re: Super Stock spring questions
#179686
01/03/09 03:01 PM
01/03/09 03:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,551
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
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I wouldn't go any less than 3400# springs.As far as shackles go I would just go with the factory Mopar style that many sources sell.I don't know where you were going to order from but Mancini Racing can set you up with an entire package that will work.One very important aspect to make these springs work for you is shock selection to keep wheels planted without hopping. You might want to ask the guys over on the truck board what they run on a street/strip truck  Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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Re: Super Stock spring questions
#179687
01/04/09 11:11 AM
01/04/09 11:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,059
Swamps of South Jersey.
wildcargo
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Posts: 3,059
Swamps of South Jersey.
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Quote:
I'm rephasing my original four questions:
1) On picking which SS spring to use, is it going to be a trial and error? First try the 002,003 springs, and if too light, go to the 3400-3600# springs? Is that why you stated wildcargo that I should put two rear holes for both lengths of SS springs?
2) Will I encounter anything weird by mounting the axle under the spring?
3) I found some info on mounting the springs. It states the leaf spring should be mounted at a 5 degree rake forward, measuring from the front and rear eyes centerline. Do you guys find that this works?
4) What are the stock shackle lenghts? I'm assuming the different models had different lenghts. The info I found stated you don't want to go more than 1-inch beyond stock. Is this correct?
5) Has anyone mounted the springs at different heights, so the rear of their car sits level, and if you did, did it cause problems with the launch at the dragstrip with slicks?
It is not important weather or not the truck sits level or not in the back. I was just wondering if it makes a difference, thats all.
Thanks guys,
Dave
#1 Dave Jerry Stine told me he liked the 02 03 springs he ran a lot more than me but that was a stocker. I had 3800# SS/springs when I built the car so that is what I used. It hopped untill I put loweing blocks in it looked like a rabit going dow the track . then I tryed 2800# springs but because the 3800# springs were 1" longer I had the wrong angle on the rear shackel, so I used the main leaf from the 3800# spring and the rest of the leafs from the 2800# spring with the extra 1/2 leaf on top of the front section that is the setup that has worked for me. it looks werd as that extra 1" past the second leaf realy bends down,
#2 I can't ansure as I have never put the rear under the spring
#3 I would think that as the front spring eye went higher it would hit the tire harder like raseing a ladderbar in the front, and lower would hit lesshard but keep it planted longer. my thaughts
#4 I run a rear shackel that is 1 1/2 longer with 2 holes thay sold them back in the 60s but thay are easy to make from 3/8 x 1 1/4 bar stock or simalur
#5 I found my car likes the rear no more than 2" higher than the front mesured at the sill, I have tryed pinion angles from 10* to 5* and mine like 8* or more. If you click on attachment of the photo of my car you will see That the rear of the spring pack is allmost hitting the ground. That was my 10.08 run and my 1.43 60'
Hope some of this is a help but your truck is going to be a lerning thing like my car was but that is part of the fun. People like the way my car leaves, but it runs the # allso
Have fun Bud
One more thing on Landy's car that had the rear on top of the spring, thay had a beam welded acrost where the pinion snuber is with the pinion snuber up agensted it in the photo I have. I have seen cars rock back a forth going down the track when thay rode the snuber hard.
Last edited by wildcargo; 01/04/09 11:19 AM.
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Re: Super Stock spring questions
#179688
01/04/09 12:47 PM
01/04/09 12:47 PM
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Thanks wildcargo and guys for answering my questions. I know I'm venturing in left field, and I wanted to gather as much knowledge from you "old timers" as I could. I'll keep you guys posted, and with pics, on how the project goes and what happens with the Mopar springs in a Ford  . Thanks guys, Dave PS If you need info about Ford 460s....
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Re: Super Stock spring questions
#179689
01/04/09 01:36 PM
01/04/09 01:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,551
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
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You should talk to Larry Kortkamp over on the UMTR site.He goes by the name Battlestar over there I think  He has an older Ford pickup with a blown FE engine and a 5-speed Doug Nash so he might be able to shed some light on how to make it hook. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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