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Re: lifting body to install engine from below [Re: sleddinfool] #1783737
03/20/15 12:12 AM
03/20/15 12:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 499
Brownstown, PA
F
FJR doc Offline
mopar
FJR doc  Offline
mopar
F

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 499
Brownstown, PA
I bought brackets from AutoTwirler that attached to the front bumper bracket mounting holes. Purchased some scrap 4x4 steel tubing from a scrap yard. Worked great for engine removal and hopefully as well for installation.


Follow my Duster 340 restoration progress on FABO http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=225784

Kevin
Re: lifting body to install engine from below [Re: FJR doc] #1783738
03/20/15 12:33 AM
03/20/15 12:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,065
CA
C
crackedback Offline
top fuel
crackedback  Offline
top fuel
C

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,065
CA
Quote:

I bought brackets from AutoTwirler that attached to the front bumper bracket mounting holes. Purchased some scrap 4x4 steel tubing from a scrap yard. Worked great for engine removal and hopefully as well for installation.




Yep,

No need to spend excessive $ on something so simple to solve and be absolutely safe.

Want an engine dolly, harbor freight 1K moving dolly, another cheap smaller one for under the trans pan and a small piece of plywood to fill the open areas of dolly and some carriage bolts/nuts.

My lift bar is possibly available to be borrowed/rented.

Re: lifting body to install engine from below [Re: 5571] #1783739
03/20/15 12:57 AM
03/20/15 12:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
Quote:

I have a four post lift, I was thinking of doing the install with that, lowering the car over it. I can see how you can get access to the K frame bolts at ground level, but how are you guys getting to holding up the trans? When you have to raise the car to get the trans brace? Wont the engine tilt back on the motor mounts and hit the firewall?




Last time I put a ratchet strap under to hold up the trans while I lifted the car to get the jack under the trans tail.

Re: lifting body to install engine from below [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1783740
03/20/15 01:20 AM
03/20/15 01:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
Too Many Posts
autoxcuda  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444
So Cal




Last edited by autoxcuda; 03/20/15 01:21 AM.
Re: lifting body to install engine from below [Re: crackedback] #1783741
03/20/15 01:22 AM
03/20/15 01:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,651
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340 Offline
top fuel
kentj340  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,651
Cut and Shoot, TX
Seems to me that a tiny bit of engineering is in order.

If the rear axle is used as the fulcrum, the weight of the front of the car is going to be some fraction of the total car weight, maybe several hundred lbs, especially if the fenders and hood are on the car.

But if you simply move the fulcrum to the forward spring brackets, the front of the car will weigh much less. And if you move the fulcrum a few more inches forward, the front of the car will weigh zero or less than zero, meaning the car will actually tilt backwards.

When I can lift the front of the car with my own muscles and without too much effort, I figure the fulcrum is in the right place for a safe lift with an engine crane or whatever.


If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
Re: lifting body to install engine from below [Re: kentj340] #1783742
03/20/15 01:40 AM
03/20/15 01:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,065
CA
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crackedback Offline
top fuel
crackedback  Offline
top fuel
C

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,065
CA
Quote:

Seems to me that a tiny bit of engineering is in order.

If the rear axle is used as the fulcrum, the weight of the front of the car is going to be some fraction of the total car weight, maybe several hundred lbs, especially if the fenders and hood are on the car.

But if you simply move the fulcrum to the forward spring brackets, the front of the car will weigh much less. And if you move the fulcrum a few more inches forward, the front of the car will weigh zero or less than zero, meaning the car will actually tilt backwards.

When I can lift the front of the car with my own muscles and without too much effort, I figure the fulcrum is in the right place for a safe lift with an engine crane or whatever.




You'd be surprised what a spare tire or two and a 100# tool box in the trunk will do to the distribution and actual force required to lift the front end. It's minimal. Nice illustration!

Re: lifting body to install engine from below [Re: crackedback] #1783743
03/20/15 02:09 AM
03/20/15 02:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline
I Live Here
Big Bad Bee  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
The arm on my cherry picker is a little longer but I put my motor in with basically the same set up. Where is the interference? If your dolly is hitting the legs of your hoist, just take the wheels off one side and cut a couple inches off. If the K member is hitting your hoist, put a 2x6 under your engine and trans pans. The dolly only needs to be as wide as the tranny pan. Support the lower control arms. There's more than one way to skin this cat. I don't think you need to buy a thing.


I’m listening.
Re: lifting body to install engine from below [Re: burdar] #1783744
03/20/15 07:23 AM
03/20/15 07:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit Offline
master
Evil Spirit  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Just remember whatever you engineer to lift the car shell up to install the engine package also may need to support the weight of the assembled front end when you are through. It may have to hold of lift the weight of the complete front end to remove the engine cradle to get the car on stands or the tires. Same for the engine/x-member cradle. You need to design the cradle or the body lift brackets to handle the total weight of the mated package, not just the weight of the single pieces.


Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
Re: lifting body to install engine from below [Re: Evil Spirit] #1783745
03/20/15 01:20 PM
03/20/15 01:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,097
Western Md.
skicker Offline
"The Champ"
skicker  Offline
"The Champ"

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,097
Western Md.
THIS^^^^


...FAFO...
Re: lifting body to install engine from below [Re: Evil Spirit] #1783746
03/20/15 02:21 PM
03/20/15 02:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,065
CA
C
crackedback Offline
top fuel
crackedback  Offline
top fuel
C

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,065
CA
Quote:

Just remember whatever you engineer to lift the car shell up to install the engine package also may need to support the weight of the assembled front end when you are through. It may have to hold of lift the weight of the complete front end to remove the engine cradle to get the car on stands or the tires. Same for the engine/x-member cradle. You need to design the cradle or the body lift brackets to handle the total weight of the mated package, not just the weight of the single pieces.




A floor jack under each frame rail/t-bar crossmember will lift the front, no need to stress the lift bars unless you don't have an alternative.

I jacked mine back up, then reinstalled a set of bumper bolt mount body dollies.

Re: lifting body to install engine from below [Re: crackedback] #1783747
03/22/15 02:03 AM
03/22/15 02:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,358
Iowa
burdar Offline OP
Owen's Dad
burdar  Offline OP
Owen's Dad

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,358
Iowa
The engine is in. The 2" x 1/8" angle worked just fine to lift the car. I had the rear supported on body stands at the forward leaf spring mount. There was very little weight on the front. I would however recommend using 1/4" angle. Once the engine was bolted up, I wanted to see what the 1/8" could handle and lifted the car up with the cherry picker. The angle showed a little bit of deflection. It held the weight OK but 1/4" angle would be nice insurance.


Re: lifting body to install engine from below [Re: burdar] #1783748
03/22/15 02:25 AM
03/22/15 02:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
Too Many Posts
autoxcuda  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444
So Cal
Quote:

The engine is in. The 2" x 1/8" angle worked just fine to lift the car. I had the rear supported on body stands at the forward leaf spring mount. There was very little weight on the front. I would however recommend using 1/4" angle. Once the engine was bolted up, I wanted to see what the 1/8" could handle and lifted the car up with the cherry picker. The angle showed a little bit of deflection. It held the weight OK but 1/4" angle would be nice insurance.






Are you just temporarily putting the engine in for mock up? Why are you putting it in before the body is painted?

Re: lifting body to install engine from below [Re: autoxcuda] #1783749
03/22/15 02:43 AM
03/22/15 02:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,358
Iowa
burdar Offline OP
Owen's Dad
burdar  Offline OP
Owen's Dad

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,358
Iowa
Lots of stuff to mock up....AND, if I take my Challenger out of storage this spring, I'll need room in the garage for it. The engine takes up a lot less space with it in the car.

Re: lifting body to install engine from below [Re: burdar] #1783750
03/22/15 11:46 PM
03/22/15 11:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
64Post Offline
master
64Post  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
My tried and true method:

Make one of these:



Then do this:



Done!


Re: lifting body to install engine from below [Re: kentj340] #1783751
03/23/15 12:00 AM
03/23/15 12:00 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
64Post Offline
master
64Post  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
Quote:

Seems to me that a tiny bit of engineering is in order.

If the rear axle is used as the fulcrum, the weight of the front of the car is going to be some fraction of the total car weight, maybe several hundred lbs, especially if the fenders and hood are on the car.

But if you simply move the fulcrum to the forward spring brackets, the front of the car will weigh much less. And if you move the fulcrum a few more inches forward, the front of the car will weigh zero or less than zero, meaning the car will actually tilt backwards.

When I can lift the front of the car with my own muscles and without too much effort, I figure the fulcrum is in the right place for a safe lift with an engine crane or whatever.




Looks solid on paper but... the farther forward you move the fulcrum (jack stands) the higher you need to jack the car up so the gas tank and bumper don't hit the ground. That increase the angle the frame sits on the jack stands raising the risk of the jack stands walking or completely kicking out. Essentially, you're introducing a side load onto the jack stands. Using the axle as a pivot point introduces no such load as the weight is carried through the CL of the jack stands.

This is a simple process. There is no need to over-engineer or introduce risk into the equation. As mentioned, a couple hundred pounds of weight in the trunk works wonders for over all counter balance, although I've never used CW myself.

Re: lifting body to install engine from below [Re: Evil Spirit] #1783752
03/23/15 12:59 AM
03/23/15 12:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline
I Live Here
Big Bad Bee  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Quote:

Just remember whatever you engineer to lift the car shell up to install the engine package also may need to support the weight of the assembled front end when you are through. It may have to hold of lift the weight of the complete front end to remove the engine cradle to get the car on stands or the tires. Same for the engine/x-member cradle. You need to design the cradle or the body lift brackets to handle the total weight of the mated package, not just the weight of the single pieces.



My engine dolly was only about inches high. I had absolutely no issue pulling the engine hoist and jacking the car up with my low profile hydraulic jack. If you hang the k member off the front of the dolly, you can raise the car from under the k very easily.


I’m listening.
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