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#2379718 - 10/01/17 12:18 AM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
April 2017


Attachments
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#2379719 - 10/01/17 12:21 AM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
April 2017


Attachments
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18011161_1539845169394038_3125945652196351996_n.jpg

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#2379721 - 10/01/17 12:24 AM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
April 2017


Attachments
0404171431a.jpg

0412171109.jpg

18198531_1551993098179245_8292652344125517370_n.jpg

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#2379724 - 10/01/17 12:32 AM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
April 2017

Yes, the bottom of the car was also sanded like the top and painted Plum Crazy before being very neatly undercoated.
I know this isn't quite the (sloppy) way that the factory did things. I guess that makes this car a touch over restored.
I certainly have an appreciation for the factory primer bottoms with body color overspray, but on a car that's going to be regularly driven, I like undercoating for a variety of reasons.


Attachments
18156906_1551994058179149_1828343725892707552_n.jpg

0417170853.jpg

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#2379725 - 10/01/17 12:34 AM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
April 2017

That's a Firm Feel Stage 3 power steering box being installed.
Stage 3 is the least assisted power steering box, for a more firm steering wheel. It requires slightly more effort to turn than the factory steering box, which most people would say is a good thing. Chrysler factory power steering was over assisted, making it easy to overcorrect in a turn.

Steering firmness is also affected by front tire width (scrub), and steering wheel diameter (leverage).
It would also be affected by a fast ratio pitman arm (leverage).

Stage 3 is nowhere near being overly firm in my 70 'Cuda, and I expect it to perform nicely in this 70 Road Runner also.


Attachments
18193949_1551993681512520_843970377550362447_n.jpg

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#2379726 - 10/01/17 12:39 AM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
April 2017

Had some more parts powdercoated in black.

Tracked down a High Capacity fan blade. These are kind of hard to find, probably something to do with them being used on Superbirds.
There are 5 levels of Mopar cooling
1. Standard Cooling
2. Air Conditioning (bigger radiator with shroud, different water pump impeller, bigger fan blade & thermal drive with 2 rpm limits)
3. High Capacity Fan (pulls more air at all RPM, no RPM limit like thermal drive or torque drive)
4. Max Cooling (biggest radiator with shroud, air conditioner sized fan blade but with torque drive that has 1 rpm limit)
5. Trailer Towing (this is the Max Cooling radiator with the High Capacity Fan)

Ordered a 2998956 Max Cooling radiator from Glen Ray Radiators.

Tracked down a correct carburetor core and sent it to Harms Automotive for restoration. Scott Smith does Amazing work!

I've attached a list of the four barrel carburetors used on 1970 383 engines. (click on it or download it, and you'll be able to read it better)
It includes CFM ratings for the Carter carbs (difficult to find CFM ratings for those)
It also includes the correct Choke part number for each carb, correcting two typos in the parts book, and a note about superceded part numbers.
Scott told me that having the correct carb list # (R-4???A) isn't critical for proper function. The differences are minor, and he can build any Holley 4160 so that it will work like one of the other list numbers.
I ended up getting the correct carb list # for my car, but having Scott build it to work like an Air Grabber carb, since I added the Air Grabber Hood.


Attachments
0421171110.jpg

0425171834-1.jpg

IMG_20170427_193056221.jpg

1970 383 Carbs.JPG



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#2379731 - 10/01/17 01:20 AM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
May 2017

The button to fold the seat forward is always black.


Attachments
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#2379732 - 10/01/17 01:23 AM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
May 2017


Attachments
0513171141.jpg

0513171141a.jpg

0513171142.jpg

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#2379733 - 10/01/17 01:25 AM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
May 2017


Attachments
0513171143.jpg

IMG_20170502_134449931.jpg



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#2379734 - 10/01/17 01:29 AM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
May 2017

I had to learn a bit about B body disc brakes, so here's a bunch of useful brake info.
Some of this also applies to other cars.

I ordered an MBM Brakes master cylinder and booster kit from Mancini Racing. This includes the master cylinder, brake booster, firewall reinforcement plate, and linkages to the pedal. These are all parts that are needed to convert from drum brakes to disc brakes.
Item MBMBCK8536-1 & MBMBCK8536-2 appear very similar in the photograph and item list, and it took me a bit to figure out which item number was correct for my application.
The item fitment description lists the wrong change over year for B bodies, and that added to the confusion. It says that 70 B bodies are the same as 70-74 E & 71-74 B, but this is incorrect. 70 B body is actually like the older 66-70 cars. B body didn't update until 1971.
The difference between these two items is the firewall reinforcement plate. MBMBCK8536-1 comes with the 1966-1970 B body firewall plate, while MBMBCK8536-2 comes with a 1970-1974 E body & 1971-1974 B body firewall plate.
I'm building a 1970 B body here, so I bought the MBMBCK8536-1, which strongly resembles what the factory would have used in a power disc brake car.
Their photo provided for MBMBCK8536-2 does not resemble what the factory used in E bodies, so I would be reluctant to use that in an E body. (maybe their picture is wrong?)


Attachments
68-to-70-B-body-Brakes.jpg

68 to 70 B body brakes 2.jpg

68-to-70-B-body-brakes-3.jpg

1970 B body disc brake valves before Jan 1.jpg



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#2379735 - 10/01/17 01:36 AM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
May 2017

Time to figure out the stereo.

First I did some research into what was originally available for B body radios.
This info may not be as complete / thorough as my E body radio post, but it's a good starting point for anyone looking for info though, and maybe it will help point someone in the right direction.

B Body Radio Options 1968-1970 & 1971-1974

In 68-70 B bodies Only the AM 8-track cars had a 3 speaker dash (with crossover box and harness)
The AM 8-track was the only Stereo radio available. AM & AM/FM radios in 68-70 B bodies were Mono.
Some 68-70 cars have package trays with symmetrical speaker holes, while most have asymmetrical speaker holes. The difference was do to different vendors supplying the part.
68-70 R31 is the rear speaker option.
68-70 never had dual rear speakers, they had an optional single rear speaker.
That rear speaker is a 5 x 7 speaker on the drivers side.
The passenger side hole was only used for an optional defogger.
The defogger was designed to fit in 6 x 9 speaker holes, so that is why the 68-70 B body defogger intake opening looks like a 6 x 9 speaker hole.
Since dual rear speakers were not available, these cars never had an adapter for dual speakers with defogger.
In 68 the rear speaker fader was next to the radio in the faceplate.
in 69 & 70 the rear speaker fader was on the bottom of the dash frame, to the left of the ashtray.
Stereo radios with a rear speaker used a dual pot fader, while mono radios with a rear speaker used a single pot fader.



71-74 B bodies never had a 3 speaker dash, not even on cars with a Stereo radio. Instead, a Stereo radio came with a single dash speaker and a drivers rear speaker.

71-72 B bodies could have...
mono AM single dash speaker
mono AM single dash speaker + drivers rear speaker
mono AM single dash speaker with cassette player (only 71-72, not a listed option in 73-74)
mono AM single dash speaker with cassette player + drivers rear speaker (only 71-72, not a listed option in 73-74)
Stereo AM/FM single dash speaker + drivers rear speaker
Stereo AM/FM single dash speaker with cassette player + drivers rear speaker
A Microphone is listed as being optional only with cassette players, and only for 1971. (likely available over the counter for other years)
Defogger was optional and used the passenger side package tray hole as an intake, same as in previous years.
The package tray is missing a provision for mounting the dual speaker with defogger adapter, these cars never had an adapter for dual speakers with defogger.

73-74 B bodies could have...
mono AM single dash speaker
mono AM single dash speaker + drivers rear speaker
mono AM/FM single dash speaker (new for 73-74)
mono AM/FM single dash speaker + drivers rear speaker (new for 73-74)
Stereo AM/FM single dash speaker + drivers rear speaker
Stereo AM/FM single dash speaker with cassette player + drivers rear speaker (only 71-73, not a listed option in 74)
Defogger was optional and used the passenger side package tray hole as an intake, same as in previous years.
The package tray is missing a provision for mounting the dual speaker with defogger adapter, these cars never had an adapter for dual speakers with defogger.


The adapter for dual speakers with a defogger was only used on E bodies & C bodies. (same part on both cars)


Original speakers were 8 ohm
You never want to run 4 ohm total impedance speakers with these old original radios. It will burn up the radios output transformer over time.

Modern aftermarket radios are designed to handle modern 4 ohm speakers. (you could use 8 ohm speakers with a modern radio, but it would be quiet)

The new reproduction B body radios have modern internals and can handle 4 or 8 ohm speakers.

Turnswitch.com has an excellent selection of 4 ohm & 8 ohm speakers that are designed to fit classic cars without cutting your car or dash. They accomplish this by using smaller super magnets like inside computers, instead of using larger less powerful ceramic magnets that are typically found on aftermarket speakers.

Having original speakers reconed isn't a great option if you plan to actually listen to the radio because the old magnet will never be as good as it used to be.



I decided to use a Retro Radio power antenna, which I modified a bit. It comes with a flexible portion in between the mast and the motor. I removed this flexible portion.

Though this car was originally a Stereo 8-track car with the 3 speaker dash, I decided to go with a reproduction 1970 AM/FM with all modern internals. It has Bluetooth and an auxiliary input on the back for my MP3 player.
The 1970 AM/FM B body radio is a very desirable one year only radio, and I'll be glad to use my 3 speaker dash with the modern internals.
Antique Automobile Radio is the manufacturer. http://www.radiosforoldcars.com/whoF.htm

For Speakers, I went to Turnswitch.com and ordered a pair of the 3.5 inch square 8 ohm speakers for the stereo dash locations, and a 4x10 Mopar B body Stereo High Output 8 ohm for the dash center (it's a bracket that holds two 8 ohm round speakers in the original 4x10 location, without interfering with any of the heater cables under the dash).
This gives me four 8 ohm dash speakers, that I've wired in parallel so that the left pair is a 4 ohm load, and the right pair is a 4 ohm load. The reproduction radio has modern internals which can handle a 4 ohm load, so this should sound great!
The 3.5 inch square outboard speakers need a bass blocker installed in line with the speaker wire so that they don't distort from low bass notes. The center dash speakers can handle the low notes and don't need the bass blockers.
I also ordered a pair of the SX69 coaxial 6x9 oval speakers, which will mount under the package tray just fine without any cutting or drilling.

Wiring Diagram pictured below.


Attachments
B-Body-Radio.jpg



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#2379738 - 10/01/17 01:48 AM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
The wiring grommet that comes with the power antenna fits the factory hole in the kick panel sheet metal.
The top of the power antenna is held by the fender.
A metal bracket was made to hold the bottom of the power antenna. It goes over these two door hinge bolts that are sticking out, and then I put nuts on them to hold the bracket in place. (hinge bolts marked with red arrows in pic below. Not my car in this pic, just grabbed this off the internet to show the door hinge bolts) The metal bracket goes forward from these hinge bolts, and down to the bottom of the antenna, where it bends horizontal to fasten to the bottom of the antenna.

Next the bracket was painted Plum Crazy to match the car, and everything was installed.


Attachments
Power Antenna Bracket Mounts Here.jpg

0513171141.jpg



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#2379746 - 10/01/17 02:32 AM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
BigMoneyLewis Offline
master

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3832
Loc: Alabama
Would it be possible to get a better quality pic of this front license plate ? Assuming you still have it, I might be interested in buying it from you ..

Greg


Attachments
Screenshot (2841).png




Edited by BigMoneyLewis (10/01/17 02:33 AM)
_________________________
gregward@mchsi.com phone 256-852-0955

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#2379753 - 10/01/17 05:29 AM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: BigMoneyLewis]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By BigMoneyLewis
Would it be possible to get a better quality pic of this front license plate ? Assuming you still have it, I might be interested in buying it from you ..

Greg


It's a pretty cool license plate.
It says SUPER The Road Runninest
It always made me think of Superbirds. smile

It's been awhile since I've seen it, but I should still have it around somewhere. I'll have to look for it.

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#2379786 - 10/01/17 07:30 AM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
larry4406 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/04/03
Posts: 392
Loc: Virginia
Awesome build!

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#2380056 - 10/01/17 03:22 PM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: larry4406]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By larry4406
Awesome build!


Thanks! smile

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#2380064 - 10/01/17 03:42 PM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
July 2017

Suspension

Rebuilt the 8.75 rear end with 3.55:1 gears and a Sure Grip.

With the car all taken apart, I wasn't able to weigh the car for use in the suspension calculations, so I had to do a little educated guesswork.
A friend weighed a 1970 Hemi GTX, and that gave me something to guess in the ballpark with. It weighed 3841 pounds without a driver, 2177 on the front wheels = 54%, and 1845 on the rear wheels = 46%.
I looked up engine weights, and came up with 765 pounds for a Hemi, and 620 pounds for a 383, so I'm guessing about 145 pounds off the front weight of my 70 Road Runner.
With a 181 pound driver, I'm guessing the 70 Road Runner should weigh about 3877 pounds. I'm guessing 2094 on the front wheels = 54%, and 1783 on the rear wheels = 46%.
OK, now I have an educated guess at what the car should weigh. Ideally, you'd just weigh the car.

I wanted improved handling, so stock torsion bars are to soft for my tastes, but at the same time, this isn't a race car that's going to be driven on a perfectly smooth track. This will be a fun street driven car. I was aiming for torsion bars that were stiff enough to have a spring rate of about 10% of the front end weight, without going over 10%. I selected Firm Feel 1.00 inch diameter torsion bars, which have a spring rate that is 8.9% of my estimated front end weight.
I wanted to match that 8.9% figure for the spring rate of the leaf springs supporting the rear weight. The math said that I needed 160 pound spring rate (each) leaf springs to accomplish this.
I've heard that the Mopar Performance Super Stock springs are 160 pound spring rate, but I've also heard that they're intended to be race parts, so they don't have the durability of a part designed for long term street use, and they sag after a few years. They also require different spring mounts because they're not the same length as original springs, and that also affects the way they function.
I decided to have Firm Feel custom make leaf springs for me. They're original length to use the stock spring mounts, the spring rate I specified, and should be durable enough for long term use on the street. I don't plan to replace my leaf springs every 3 years like some race cars might.

The stock front sway bar is better than nothing, but simply isn't large enough diameter. I chose a Firm Feel 1.125 diameter front sway bar.
Doing the math, this gave me a front roll bias of 78%, which according to the theoretical handling line, would be perfect for a car with 54.5% of the total car weight on the front wheels.
If my car weight is actually 54% on the front like I guessed, then I'll be just a little bit on the oversteer side of the line (the less safe side). Since the car weight was guesswork though, I'm going to start with this and check the actual car weight when it's finally all put together.
If I end up with 54.5% to 55.5% of my total car weight on the front wheels, then I'll run this setup as is.
If I end up with 53% to 54% of my total car weight on the front wheels, then I'll change to a Firm Feel 1.25 diameter front sway bar.
If I end up with 56% to 57% of my total car weight on the front wheels, then I'll add a Firm Feel .75 diameter rear sway bar.
Rear sway bars were never originally available on these cars, but Firm Feel does make them.
These figures will keep me close to the theoretical handling line, or just on the safer understeer side of the line.


I'm running Firm Feel tubular upper control arms with offset bushings installed for more caster. This car will have plenty of caster adjustment available. I'm aiming for 6 degrees positive caster and negative .6 degree camber.
I think the Hotchkiss tubular upper control arms are the best performing upper control arms for a Mopar, but the pivot relocation which gives them an advantage also creates additional effort during alignments, and I didn't want to hassle with that. (plus they're very expensive)
I haven't tried the Magnum Force tubular upper control arms, but I've heard good things about them, including that they provide +4 degrees of caster instead of the +3 you get from Firm Feel. I would seriously consider using those on a future build, without the problem solver bushings, and you might still be able to hit +5 degrees caster if you're lucky, which is pretty good.

I'm running Bilstein shocks.

I've welded plates to the bottom of the lower control arms to keep their U shape from flexing during hard cornering.

I've also installed Firm Feels idler arm roller bearings, and steering box sector shaft support, to help prevent the K frame from flexing due to the steering forces.

I want this car to still look very original, so I've kept that in mind while choosing these modifications. Extremely few people will notice torsion bar diameter or sway bar diameter, or that the leaf springs are very slightly different. Tubular upper control arms aren't really noticeable unless your looking up from underneath the car.
Continuing with this original appearing theme, the car will ride on 15 inch rallye wheels. I didn't want to go with a larger than original wheel on this car. I am using modern steel belted radial tires though, and all the wheel lugs are right hand threaded.

The biggest disc brakes that will fit inside the 15 inch rallyes is 11.75 inch rotors. Consider it done.
11 inch drums on the back.


Attachments
20245790_1666849210026966_8215105074877897848_n.jpg

0714171351.jpg

20139968_1666849306693623_8468907850357470145_n.jpg

20108164_1666849066693647_3400133201511905774_n.jpg



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#2380066 - 10/01/17 03:46 PM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
July 2017


Attachments
20228760_1666849670026920_2972216021347421122_n.jpg

0713171040.jpg

20155720_1666849593360261_4670580061543834595_n.jpg

20229000_1666849543360266_1004917781366407215_n.jpg



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#2380069 - 10/01/17 03:49 PM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
July 2017

The car is finally on the ground again.


Attachments
0715171027a.jpg

20108205_1666850430026844_5244974196447671358_n.jpg

972178_1666850533360167_6526358045849673269_n.jpg

20156120_1666850003360220_836170018767450601_n.jpg



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#2380073 - 10/01/17 03:55 PM Re: 1970 Roadrunner Project [Re: cataclysm80]
cataclysm80 Offline
master

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4160
Loc: Florida
July 2017

Installing the headliner


Attachments
DSCN1466.JPG

DSCN1464.JPG

DSCN1422.JPG

DSCN1417.JPG



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