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Re: American Power Train 5 Speed Install
[Re: ringo440]
#1778056
03/12/15 09:57 PM
03/12/15 09:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,212
Canton, Ohio
Crazy68Dart
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,212
Canton, Ohio
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I would immediately pick up the phone and call AP and ask for Gray. He will help you out.
383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60
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Re: American Power Train 5 Speed Install
[Re: ringo440]
#1778060
03/13/15 09:38 AM
03/13/15 09:38 AM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 819
On the open road
Hrtbkr
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 819
On the open road
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 I cut the tunnel near the front on the passenger side and a friend formed a patch panel and welded it in. I've been told by others you can bump that area out enough without cutting. There were also issues with the pilot bearing staying in place. It would move after the engine warmed. I used Loctite black (from Graingers) to keep it in place.
While outside on the turnpike
They got this new hit tune
Where thrills become as cheap as gas
And gas as cheap as thrills
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Re: American Power Train 5 Speed Install
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#1778063
03/13/15 01:49 PM
03/13/15 01:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 235
ga
ringo440
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 235
ga
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Talked this morning with passion , o.d. has a six to eight weeks wait time I hope I can get the guy to wait. What rear gear are you running?
Last edited by ringo440; 03/13/15 01:51 PM.
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Re: American Power Train 5 Speed Install
[Re: Lefty]
#1778065
03/13/15 06:46 PM
03/13/15 06:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
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I got a mew tko600 kit from kiesler still sitting in the boxes... From my research, you don't even need the 4 speed hump to use them in a b-body... that was clearance for the shifter. Like mentioned you can clearance the tunnel some. I imagine e-bodies are the same too. My perfect rust free floor pan was already cut years ago in the tunnel, otherwise I would wait and go passion also, but this kits already here and paid for.
68 Road Runner, 69 Belvedere, 71 Challenger Vert
340 barracuda, 01 Ram CTD, 95 Ram, 04 Ram, 85 Daytona turbo Z
66 GTO, 06 Magnum RT AWD. 07 Ram CTD, 07 Ram
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Re: American Power Train 5 Speed Install
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#1778075
03/14/15 01:05 PM
03/14/15 01:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Quote:
The number of cars that are untouched and unmolested are virtually zero at this point in the game.
Well first of all, that's absolutely false. But let's assume it were true for a minute, why not hack up the remaining uncut cars? 
I went with a Passon 5 speed, I was lucky and put a couple of them on order very early on and was one of the first to receive one. What a game changer these things are! Awesome everything, 100% bolt in, 100% reversible if I ever wanted to, no cutting. Now, I realize he's having trouble filling orders on these, maybe a year out before he gets caught up, but his OD 4 speed offers almost as much performance, is also a 100% bolt in, no hacking install, it costs less, and has a shorter lead time. If you want a temporary solution it's a good way to go as well.
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Re: American Power Train 5 Speed Install
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#1778076
03/14/15 01:16 PM
03/14/15 01:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
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Quote:
Does it bolt right in, NO., can you use any of the factory stuff, NO. Can you undo it later if you want, NO. With the Passon, you get both.
In my case, my car is an auto on the column. So even to go with a 4 speed od, technically be hacking the car according to posts here. Yes you can use the original clutch linkage, pedals etc...
To each their own, but even in my 5 speed truck, I still want to shift to a 6th gear. Now to go to a t56, that takes cutting up a car, crossmember and so on... that's one I wouldn't do to my car.
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Re: American Power Train 5 Speed Install
[Re: gdonovan]
#1778079
03/14/15 01:52 PM
03/14/15 01:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Quote:
Either way you are cutting the car.
No, one is repairing a car, the other is modifying it. But we can just agree to disagree, no big deal.
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Re: American Power Train 5 Speed Install
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1778081
03/14/15 02:04 PM
03/14/15 02:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 235
ga
ringo440
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 235
ga
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O.k. I just talked with the owner of the car and he said he was going to talk to APT Monday and see if he could return it. If they will not take it back he said still wants to get rid of the setup, even if he has to take a hit on it.He was under the impression that there was no cutting involved when he purchased it. He wants to go with passion o.d. Thanks to everyone who responded to this post,not everyone agrees, But each reply was a education, This setup was not the right one for this car, But if I was building resto mod this sound like a great setup it is just not for a finished car. Thanks
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Re: American Power Train 5 Speed Install
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1778083
03/14/15 02:08 PM
03/14/15 02:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,445
Morristown Tn.
71birdJ68
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,445
Morristown Tn.
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I have watched this for a while now about the modern 5/6 speed trans installs, and have come to the conclusion that what I have said about cutting a nice floor aside, a lot of people don't have either the skills, or the tools, or the facilities, and everything else to do one of these installs. From what I have read on here, there is always something else that's needed that the installer wasn't told about, or sold in the kit that they then have to buy, and try to make it fit. The whole thing is a pile of parts from different kinds of cars that we are trying to shoe horn into cars that they weren't designed for. And that folks is why the Passon units rule, it's the right thing for about 99% of us, EVERYTHING WORKS LIKE IT CAME IN THE CAR.
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Re: American Power Train 5 Speed Install
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#1778085
03/14/15 08:12 PM
03/14/15 08:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
I have watched this for a while now about the modern 5/6 speed trans installs, and have come to the conclusion that what I have said about cutting a nice floor aside, a lot of people don't have either the skills, or the tools, or the facilities, and everything else to do one of these installs. From what I have read on here, there is always something else that's needed that the installer wasn't told about, or sold in the kit that they then have to buy, and try to make it fit. The whole thing is a pile of parts from different kinds of cars that we are trying to shoe horn into cars that they weren't designed for. And that folks is why the Passon units rule, it's the right thing for about 99% of us, EVERYTHING WORKS LIKE IT CAME IN THE CAR.
While I can agree with most of your comment, and the OP is better off in this case supplying either a Passon 3spd OD (modded 883), or Passon's new 4spd OD (5spd) for his customer seeing that the car cannot be modified to accommodate a TKO install
However regarding the TKO kits as being a bunch of parts "from other cars" is a little misleading, as the Tremec TKO is a stand alone offering from Tremec, it's never been offered in a production vehicle, it's often confused as being the same as a Tremec T5 or Tremec 3550 mfg production series transmission, the kit components offered by the various companies are often comprised of proprietory custom made bellhousings, shifters, linkage, crossmembers, etc, etc, designed for the applied applications, not a bunch of "parts from other cars"...a good segment of auto enthusiast want a TKO 5 spd installation, as evident by the 10's of thousands of TKO units sold since their inception in the early 2000's....
IMHO the 5spd thing has been "played out", yes there's still a need for them, but after driving 5 sds for many years, the natural progression is the T56 6 spd for an even deeper OD, the Mopar crowd has always been late to the table, or slow to accept change, but at least there is a multitude of offerings in the OD market now to satisfy the requirements of the many different needs/views required
Mike
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Re: American Power Train 5 Speed Install
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1778086
03/14/15 10:30 PM
03/14/15 10:30 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
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Quote:
However regarding the TKO kits as being a bunch of parts "from other cars" is a little misleading, as the Tremec TKO is a stand alone offering from Tremec, it's never been offered in a production vehicle, it's often confused as being the same as a Tremec T5 or Tremec 3550 mfg production series transmission, the kit components offered by the various companies are often comprised of proprietory custom made bellhousings, shifters, linkage, crossmembers, etc, etc, designed for the applied applications, not a bunch of "parts from other cars"..
Mike I was referring to Supra transmissions being used with Dakota bellhousings or the less than desirable Dakota/Ram NP3500.
People have been trying to stuff 5-speeds into Mopars before Keisler was offering kits.
"I think its got a hemi"
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Re: American Power Train 5 Speed Install
[Re: Supercuda]
#1778091
03/17/15 01:02 AM
03/17/15 01:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
finadk
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
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I never dealt with Passon but I bought a T56 kit from American Powertrain for my 56 Dodge and am very happy with the quality of the kit, responsiveness to my questions and overall experience.
I used a lot of heat and a big hammer to clearance the floor without cutting.... but most cars wont ever be stripped to the bare shell which made that possible for me.
Call American Powertrain they will have the answers about how to get it installed.
Scott
1956 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer (408 Stroker, 4 Wheel Disc Brakes, Rack & Pinion, 6 speed)
2002 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab
1976 Corvette
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Re: American Power Train 5 Speed Install
[Re: Supercuda]
#1778092
03/17/15 01:51 AM
03/17/15 01:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
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Quote:
Quote:
Wide gear ratio or a gear ratio comprimize is all that's left for you.
Go look at the specs of the Passon OD conversion gearset then come back and comment on compromises and wide gear ratios.
In a nutshell:
Passon's 5 speed and a standard 833's 1-4 gears are almost identical ratio's, making the 1-2 shift RPM drop the same - from 6000 to about 4400.
Both the TKO's 3.27-1.98 1-2 ratios and the Passon Hemi 4 speed O/D's 2.66-1.59 ratios drop the RPM's on the shift from 6000 all the way down to about 3600. The 2-3 on the TKO drops to 4000, and the 3-4 to about 4400 - the Passon 2-3 to 3800.
So, by the specs - both the TKO and the Passon 4 speed O/D are wide ratio transmissions and a compromise. If you need closer ratios - stick with and 833, or wait on your Passon 5 speed.
Personally, I think both the TKO and the Passon Hemi O/D 4 speed's 6000-3600 RPM drop is an excessive drop for most small blocks, and marginal at best for a big block. The TKO's advantage is a lower 1st gear, and less RPM drop on the 2-3 and 3-4.
Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
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Re: American Power Train 5 Speed Install
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#1778093
03/17/15 02:13 AM
03/17/15 02:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Quote:
The TKO's advantage is a lower 1st gear, and less RPM drop on the 2-3 and 3-4.
Well, the numbers don't lie, but your ability to shift it quickly is also a factor in maintaining RPMs and in that case the Passon is the hands down winner.
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Re: American Power Train 5 Speed Install
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1778094
03/17/15 06:28 AM
03/17/15 06:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
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Quote:
Quote:
The TKO's advantage is a lower 1st gear, and less RPM drop on the 2-3 and 3-4.
Well, the numbers don't lie, but your ability to shift it quickly is also a factor in maintaining RPMs and in that case the Passon is the hands down winner.
There's only so much that can be done to a transmissions hard parts to make it shift smoothly or fast. But when a trans shifts, the countershaft, pilot shaft, and clutch disc must all be slowed down until the shift ring and syncro speeds are even and the next gear can be engaged. Lighter parts help, but this FACT is an inherent flaw in transmissions that have wide ratios and large RPM drops between gears - it simply takes longer to slow the disc down to 3600 than it does to 4400. This is why a trans may shift smooth as butter at 4500 and horrible at 6500. Wide ratio's are also harder on the wear parts - again, because they have to work harder to slow down the front of the trans. 
Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
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Re: American Power Train 5 Speed Install
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1778095
03/17/15 11:12 AM
03/17/15 11:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
The TKO's advantage is a lower 1st gear, and less RPM drop on the 2-3 and 3-4.
Well, the numbers don't lie, but your ability to shift it quickly is also a factor in maintaining RPMs and in that case the Passon is the hands down winner.
HUH ???
It doesn't matter how fast you can shift the trans from gear to gear , the RPM is still going to drop the same amount.
The only reason the Passon setup is a winner for you is because of your stance againnst doing anything that involves a modification .
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Re: American Power Train 5 Speed Install
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1778097
03/18/15 10:44 PM
03/18/15 10:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,788
Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Magnum
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,788
Hamilton, Ontario Canada
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RPM drop is not from how fast your shift. It's a mechanical number derived from the difference in ratios.
As quick shifting. I agree with Scott and that also explains why 833's and T56's are my two favourtie transmissions.
For those who have wide ratio transmissions. Don't be offended. I've had some too. NV3500, T5's etc. I'm just here to state one shifts better than the other.
69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super
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