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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: ashburnmike]
#177175
12/28/08 06:32 PM
12/28/08 06:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it does not sound good.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: ashburnmike]
#177176
12/28/08 07:05 PM
12/28/08 07:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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A little history on the rebuild.?? What was done.
Clean it, if it's Dirty. Oil it, if it Squeaks.
But: Don't fix it, if it Works!
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: ashburnmike]
#177177
12/28/08 07:06 PM
12/28/08 07:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
I took my 340 Dart out for a real test drive
I did not re-touque the heads soon after I got it started. I have been told I should have done that after the initial startup.
with this information, are these symptoms of a blown headgasket or could it be something else.
thanks again guys.
Chances are the head gaskets are blown,....hopefully thats all!....where they steel gaskets, or compositions?....how did you seal them?.......plus check the head dowel heights (put the head bare on the block, with no gasket, to see it if sits flat?), see if there holding the head "off" the motor enough to allow the gasket to blow due to pressure,......before the heads go back on, have them "magged" at a machine shop for cracks, going to cost a few bucks, but better than chasing your tail later, if their cracked now!......been there, done that!
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: MoparforLife]
#177178
12/28/08 07:50 PM
12/28/08 07:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
ashburnmike
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
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Quote:
A little history on the rebuild.?? What was done.
A mechanic friend of mine and I assembled the motor in his garage about 6 years ago and it sat in a bag in my garage until this year. I was the one who was responsible for torqing the heads  .
so...
I have a couple of questions.
I orginally used an engine gasket set from Fel-pro when we put it together.
What is a better head gasket to use now?
When we assembled the motor I told him I really wanted the motor to be more dependable and idle smoothly than a ground pounder.
He convinced me that a P4452759 cam would be just fine.
While the car was running, it's idle was anything but smooth.
Now would be the time to slip it out and replace it with the P4452782 which I understand is the stock replacement cam for a 1970 340 isn't it.
there is also the P4452757, which is one "notch" up from the stock unit.
What is your opinion of these three camshafts. what would I sacrifice?
thanks
Mike
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: MoparforLife]
#177180
12/28/08 08:49 PM
12/28/08 08:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
ashburnmike
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
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Quote:
That isn't really a very big cam. Very little difference to the OEM 340 type grind. I think that you had better do some checking to see what is wrong. Yes, it sounds suspicious to a head gasket but not nessessarly, they are not that notorious for going out if the surfaces are prepped and torqued correctly. Very few are retorqued.
Pull your valve covers and make sure that all the rockers & push rods are in place. Also check your coolant level in the radiator.
coolant level is full and emerald green.
The receipt from the machine shop from 2002 reads:
"Hot tank block, install cam bearings, freeze plugs"
"Balance complete assembly"
"Machine hone block for moly rings"
"resize rods
clean magnaflux, polish crank
"clean glass bead heads, do complete 3 angle valve job. Assemble."
The parts relative to this bill were:
8 Melling (sp) exhaust valves and 16 05940 valve seals.
I don't know if that gives anyone any real data on what the machine shop did.
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: ashburnmike]
#177181
12/28/08 08:58 PM
12/28/08 08:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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You might pull the plugs. It wouldn't take much time & they are a good indicator of what's going on inside. And if your compression tester is nearby...
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: MoparforLife]
#177185
12/28/08 10:00 PM
12/28/08 10:00 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
ashburnmike
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
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Quote:
If there is anything different between them you will see it. oil coating - wet?
1-3-7 have a slight discoloration and a slight black residue
5 has no discoloration or residue
2-4-6-8 are discolored and have a black residue on them including on the threads.
They were snugged up but not super tightened when I put them in originally.
If there was oil on the plug, wouldn't it blow blue smoke and not the white smoke I experienced?
any help there?
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: MoparforLife]
#177187
12/28/08 11:01 PM
12/28/08 11:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
ashburnmike
OP
mopar
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mopar
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Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
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Quote:
We cannot see the smoke you saw. it could be nothing but condensation 'smoke'. In cool high humidity weather it can get real heavy and drip water from the tail pipe. Oil smoke doesn't have to be a dark blue color either.
Like I said before I am not at this point convinced that you have a head gasket out.
Understood.
The white cloud doesn't hang in the air like the old days when oil burners left a cloud behind. It dissapates too but even with the motor warm, it's a steady stream from the tailpipes.
The weather here, near Washington DC, has been cool (40's).
During the brief time from initial startup to today, it would start fine, blow a condensation cloud and drip water until the motor warmed up, then it would cease.
This problem occured on my way back from the maiden trip I took.
Now it won't idle, blows that white smoke (for lack of a better word) from both pipes, rocks violently as it gasps to stay running, moves the oil and temp gauge close to the high side of the gauge and eventually simply stalls out.
I tried moving the distributor slightly to see of it would improve the idle thinking something had occured with the timing, but that doesn't seem to matter.
what else can I relay to you.
I really appreciate this assistance.
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: MoparforLife]
#177188
12/28/08 11:02 PM
12/28/08 11:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Can you borrow a compression tester. wire the choke/throttle wide open,take the plug off of the ECU, the plugs are already out, you're almost there. You'll have an answer pretty quickly.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: RapidRobert]
#177190
12/28/08 11:14 PM
12/28/08 11:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
ashburnmike
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
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Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
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Quote:
Can you borrow a compression tester. wire the choke/throttle wide open,take the plug off of the ECU, the plugs are already out, you're almost there. You'll have an answer pretty quickly.
walk me through this ok?
I'll buy a compression tester tomorrow.
This is remedial but what is the ECU?
I'll have someone crank the motor.
What will I be looking for on the compression gauge?
Continuity between the cylinders, I assume?
Is there a range of pressure I should be looking for?
I'm still a novice at this but learning fast.
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: ashburnmike]
#177192
12/28/08 11:40 PM
12/28/08 11:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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the ECU is the electronic control module & removing it's electrical plug in eliminates any possibility of an "open" frying any electronic components during our testing. consistant readings pretty much are we are wanting to have & they will vary from ~120-170 psi roughly depending on the CR & the cam & you would want them to be the same within maybe ~10% or so & I am not positive on that % figure. But do post the readings. We are hoping to NOT have 2 adjacent cyls that are WAY lower than the others which would indicate a blown head gasket between the two offending cyls. I would get one that screws in to the cyl with a detachable hose rather than cheap one with a rubber tip that you have to hold to the plug hole while someone cranks the eng & they are not expensive.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: RapidRobert]
#177193
12/28/08 11:53 PM
12/28/08 11:53 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
ashburnmike
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
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Quote:
the ECU is the electronic control module & removing it's electrical plug in eliminates any possibility of an "open" frying any electronic components during our testing. consistant readings pretty much are we are wanting to have & they will vary from ~120-170 psi roughly depending on the CR & the cam & you would want them to be the same within maybe ~10% or so & I am not positive on that % figure. But do post the readings. We are hoping to NOT have 2 adjacent cyls that are WAY lower than the others which would indicate a blown head gasket between the two offending cyls. I would get one that screws in to the cyl with a detachable hose rather than cheap one with a rubber tip that you have to hold to the plug hole while someone cranks the eng & they are not expensive.
Thanks for those parameters.
I was just checking websites to find someone who sells one that will fit a 38 year old plug hole. I assume they have adapters in the kits but will take a plug with me to make sure it has the same thread count.
I want to get on this tomorrow night and post the results for feedback and analysis.
Everyone has been a huge help...and I hope it isn't the head gaskets too.
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