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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: ashburnmike]
#177214
12/29/08 10:59 PM
12/29/08 10:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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that crossed my mind too that the voltage limiter was pegging the gauges especially when you said the oil psi was pegged but then I thought nah that couldn't be it because there's all the physical symptoms, the white smoke, the leak at the front of the head & especially the missing and wouldn't hardly stay running. I am going to go out on a limb & say ECU/slight intake&coolant leak/bad voltage limiter as he mentioned.
Last edited by RapidRobert; 12/31/08 12:11 AM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: RapidRobert]
#177215
12/29/08 11:06 PM
12/29/08 11:06 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
ashburnmike
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
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Quote:
that crossed my mind too that the gauges were pegging especially when you said the oil psi was pegged but then I thought nah that couldn't be it because there's all the physical symptoms, the white smoke, the leak at the front of the head & especially the missing and wouldn't hardly stay running. I am going to go out on a limb & say ECU/slight intake&coolant leak/bad voltage limiter as he mentioned.
I have been corrected once again...it's not white smoke if it dissapates...it's steam. Sorry about that terminology error.
Is there a way to test the Breakerless ignition I put in?
If there is a vacuum leak and I spray the area w/ starter fluid, will it bubble like a hole in a tire does?
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: RapidRobert]
#177217
12/30/08 08:54 AM
12/30/08 08:54 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
ashburnmike
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
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Quote:
Quote:
Is there a way to test the Breakerless ignition I put in? If there is a vacuum leak and I spray the area w/ starter fluid, will it bubble like a hole in a tire does?
A parts house can test an ECU but if it doesn't act up when they test it then we are not going to have a valid test but I would have them test it(our run of(bad) luck has to change  ). I for sure hate throwing parts at a car expecially after my contributions. Do you have another vehicle that you could borrow the ECU from. An intake sucks the fluid in as opposed to a tire that bubbles it outward & if any fluid is sucked in through a pinhole leak it changes the idle because you are improperly adding extra fuel & drastically changing the mixture & the idle speed/quality will change & I'm thinking that if this was just condensation & if the ECU is the culprit that there might not be any intake issue so I would start there with the ECU. EDIT & white smoke that is what we call steam so you're good there.
to review,
The ECU is the orange component that came with the distributor kit when I replaced the dual point. I bolted it to the drivers side fender. It has the large triangle shape plug. Is this is the unit we're questioning?
I have a wiring harness I pulled out of my mothers' (rest her soul) 74 Plymouth /6 Valiant. I think the ECU is still attached to the tangle of wires.
Other than the body panels, every system on this car has been replaced, refurbished or repaired. I'm learning that even though you replace items refurbished by professionals(carburator, dash, alternator, starter, wiper motor) or new (wiring harnesses from YO)...it is certainly no gaurantee that they will work.
Thanks for hanging in there with me. 
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: ashburnmike]
#177218
12/30/08 09:03 AM
12/30/08 09:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Did you make sure that the ECU is grounded to good clean metal and not screwed down to painted metal. Check your oil pressure with a good mechanical gauge. Yes a misfiring engine can run hot. You said you fired it up again in one of your later posts - How did it run? What are you running for rocker arms? If adjustable how did you adjust them? Just a thought but if adjustable they could be adjusted too tight and when the lifter pumps up they are holding the valves open. 
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: MoparforLife]
#177220
12/30/08 09:45 AM
12/30/08 09:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
ashburnmike
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
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Quote:
Did you make sure that the ECU is grounded to good clean metal and not screwed down to painted metal.
Check your oil pressure with a good mechanical gauge.
Yes a misfiring engine can run hot.
You said you fired it up again in one of your later posts - How did it run?
What are you running for rocker arms? If adjustable how did you adjust them? Just a thought but if adjustable they could be adjusted too tight and when the lifter pumps up they are holding the valves open. [/quote
When it bolted the ECU to the fender I DID NOT scrape the paint to expose bare metal. I bolted it directly to the fender, right on top of the paint.
In answer to the question about when I fired it up to warm the motor to check the compression, if I set the idle screw @ around 1500 - 2000 rpms, initially, when still cold, it runs without problems. Very fast but no stumbling.
As it warms up, the engine begins to stumble. If I turn the idle screw back to the 1200 rpms (idle recommended by the cam shaft people) it bounces from smooth to erratic back to smooth.
If I leave it @ 1200 rpms, after a few minutes, it rocks back and forth struggling to run, the light in the cabin flickers, the gauge needles (temp, tach, oil, and amp)shutter slightly in an erratic motion and the motor simply dies out.
If I turn the rpms back up to 2000 before it dies, it will run but stumble.
AT high rpms, the gauge needles return to a calm posture until it stumbles at which time they flinch.
If the ECU is improperly grounded, as I'm now sure it is since I bolted it on w/o prepping the mounting surface correctly, that poor grounding could interrupt the signal, thus resulting in the erractic idle.
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: MoparforLife]
#177222
12/30/08 10:17 AM
12/30/08 10:17 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
ashburnmike
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
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Quote:
Ground your ECU. It won't hurt. Check to make sure that your carburator isn't flooding over. Look down the carb throat while it is running and make sure that it is isn't flowing fuel. Sounds to me now like it is loading up.
When I get home it will be the first thing I do.
I had the AVS rebuilt thru YO and it came back to me in an Edelbrock box. They did a great job on it.
If it is loading up, how do I adjust that?
I will also try the suggestion from Rapid Robert. to get some starter fluid and check for vacuum leaks.
I'll post more tonight with the results.
Thanks again
Mike
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: ashburnmike]
#177223
12/30/08 10:30 AM
12/30/08 10:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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If it is flooding out the float could be set too high or there could be something holding the needle partially open to allow too much fuel into the bowl. When you look down the throat you should not see any fuel dripping. does it smell rich. If it is dripping fuel it should smell rich and the plugs should be black, which you say they are not so possibly scratch that idea. On the other hand like Robert said you have the possibility of a vacume leak. OR have you adjusted the idle mixture screws or just adjusted the idle speed. Poor idle mixture can also give the symptoms you describe. A lot like slowly running out of fuel. We are all just guessing here without being able to see the problem.
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: MoparforLife]
#177224
12/30/08 10:37 PM
12/30/08 10:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
ashburnmike
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
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Quote:
If it is flooding out the float could be set too high or there could be something holding the needle partially open to allow too much fuel into the bowl. When you look down the throat you should not see any fuel dripping. does it smell rich. If it is dripping fuel it should smell rich and the plugs should be black, which you say they are not so possibly scratch that idea.
On the other hand like Robert said you have the possibility of a vacume leak. OR have you adjusted the idle mixture screws or just adjusted the idle speed. Poor idle mixture can also give the symptoms you describe. A lot like slowly running out of fuel. We are all just guessing here without being able to see the problem.
I had to unexpectedly fly out of town on business for a couple of days.
I am taking this info with me.
I will have a battle plan and try every suggestion that's been made, when I get back...and let me assure you guys, I'm very anxious to get back and get the issue solved.
Until then,my thanks to all of you for the guidence, a safe and Happy New Year to all and I'll post Friday with the results.
Mike
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: ashburnmike]
#177225
01/03/09 07:50 PM
01/03/09 07:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
ashburnmike
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
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Happy New Year everyone. To update you fellows, here is what I have done and the results.
I replaced the spark plugs with new.
Re-torqued every bolt I could find. Carb, intake, exhaust, everything.
Sprayed starter fluid to check for vacuum leaks - non found.
Set the ditributor rotor w/ #1 @ TDC.
Turned the key and she started right up.
I waited as the the motor warmed. Gauges were calm and steady. The Motor didn't breakdown as it did before at all.
Set the idle to 1000rpm and she idled well.
I took it out for a run around the block, stopping to adjust the distributor ever so slightly.
She ran as she did when I first fired it up. Oil pressure good, temperature good, charging system good. All was right with the world again.
BUT
I noticed when I would start the car (which I did many times over the course of the 5-6 miles) the key wouldn't "jump" back from the start position. I wanted to stay in the crank position.
This was a first.
When I got it home, I turned it off, let it cool down,jacked it up the rear, and set it on jackstands to tighten some leaky exhaust clamps, lowered the car, and when I tried to start it again.
Nothing. No cranking. dead as a doornail.
The dome light which moments ago shone bright when the car was off is now very dim.
I took a screwdriver and crossed the two terminals on the starter replay and it cranked to beat the band.
Fuses all good. Wiggled wires.
Opened the door...bright dome light...key in buzzer sounding off...put in the key...turned it...dome light when dim...key in buzzer stopped.
Question:
Could all of these problems with the poor performance be an electrical issue (Ignition switch?) and not (or never has been)a mechanical issue?
the steering colum was rebuilt my SMS years ago and recently installed as were the other components we have already discussed.
Still perplexed in Ashburn, Virginia.
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: ashburnmike]
#177227
01/03/09 08:17 PM
01/03/09 08:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,968
Hampton, Ga.
70dart360
Green Meister
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Green Meister
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,968
Hampton, Ga.
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Sounds like a corroded or lose bulk head connection to me.Jumping it at the starter relay bypasses all that.
70 Dart Swinger
72 D-100 440 shortbed
76 Pinto, 68k 21mpg!
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: MoparforLife]
#177228
01/03/09 09:21 PM
01/03/09 09:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
ashburnmike
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
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Quote:
First place to look is for are tight clean battery cable connections. Make sure that the battery is fully charged. A marginal; battery will/can make your engine run ratty too, do you have your engine grounded to the fire wall of the car. The engine must be grounded to the body have seen lack of grounds do mysterious things.
As for your key switch returning Spray some spray like spray silicone lube on the key and then put it into the switch and turn back and forth.
Battery connections are tight and brand new
Battery is brand new and full of juice.
I have the battery ground running to the block only.
and btw, I scraped the paint off the fender and re installed the ECU. Now it is a bare metal to bare metal contact.
I'll try the silicone trick on the key. I have WD-40 & PB Blaster on the bench.
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: 70dart360]
#177229
01/03/09 09:23 PM
01/03/09 09:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
ashburnmike
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
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Quote:
Sounds like a corroded or lose bulk head connection to me.Jumping it at the starter relay bypasses all that.
The wiring harnesses came from Year One and are brand new. Inside cabin, motor compartment and stern lights.
I'll go make sure they have good contact.
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Re: not sure, maybe a blown headgasket
[Re: MoparforLife]
#177233
01/04/09 10:06 AM
01/04/09 10:06 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
ashburnmike
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 455
Ashburn, Virginia
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Quote:
either will work on the key. Would like to see a good ground from a head or rear of engine to the fire wall. Should have had one in original state.
I have an extra battery ground cable and will try your suggestion this morning.
This issue came right out of the blue
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