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Re: Hemi Vs Wedge Debate [Re: B G Racing] #176874
12/29/08 09:32 PM
12/29/08 09:32 PM

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Quote:

Kind of getting off track for a Hemi vs Wedge topic. Let's go back to pinion angles and 8-3/4 rearends.




How much h.p do you beleive an 8 3/4's can take,auto,no t-brake slant 6 without n.o.s.
4200 lb car with 15" slicks

Re: Hemi Vs Wedge Debate [Re: Steve1118] #176875
12/29/08 09:39 PM
12/29/08 09:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,443
Northern N.J.
hemi_doug Offline
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Quote:

You seem to have had more problems than most have.

A stock rod breaking....that is possible, that is why we generally polish and grind the sidebeams. Are you sure a bearing didn't get tight?

As far as a bad spring....that is not even close to being the fault of engine design. Valve float is caused by overrevving it, the wrong spring for the application, or a faulty or worn out part. That is why you keep after that stuff in a race car. Any race car.....any type of engine.

You still are not going to convince me that a Hemi is an unreliable piece, if built and raced correctly. If not, no design will survive. I have forty years of racing them that says you are wrong.




No..the rod snapped, the big end still spins on the crank to this day...

The spring was borderline for the roller cam to begin with...took a chance and lost.

The seat was just plain old piss poor QA on the part of MP....


Oh...don't get me wrong...i'm not saying it totally unreliable...I've just had some bad luck. But I can tell you this is the most trouble I've had with a motor, and I've owned and thrashed many a wedge in the past....NEVER broke a rod before this stock Hemi one....on a stock build no less. So it does happen even to the best of engine designs.



71 440-6 4spd & 69 Hemi 4spd
Re: Hemi Vs Wedge Debate [Re: hemi_doug] #176876
12/29/08 11:18 PM
12/29/08 11:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,096
Bend,OR USA
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The 426 Hemi was a compromise from day one, it is not a true Hemi design with the valves centered over the cylinders. Look at the intake valve location, the cylinder wall schrouds it. Now for my on those that have had them and those that want them, be careful of what you wish for, Hemiroids are not for everyone I've had them, sold them, still build them but I race a wedge I'm probally one of the only Mopar racers that can't make as much power with a hemi than I can with a wedge


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Hemi Vs Wedge Debate [Re: hemi_doug] #176877
12/29/08 11:19 PM
12/29/08 11:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 398
Ohio
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I can tell you this, in stock eliminator form, my wedge to my fathers hemi is about 100 HP less. That equals about 7 tenths in very similar cars. I believe it is all in the heads, intake, and holleys.

Jeff Day
Precision Automotive Machine, INC
Canton, Ohio

Re: Hemi Vs Wedge Debate [Re: jdfpam] #176878
12/30/08 07:21 AM
12/30/08 07:21 AM
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Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
Tig Offline
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FWIW My buddy has a '70 gtx with an Indy headed 572 hemi. He runs a smaller cam (in the .690's to my .737) His car wieghs 200 lb less and runs 4:30's to my 4:10's. Both cars have 572ci, run 8 inch converters, single dominators, run on pump gas and have the same size and brand rear tyre. We both run caltracs and our 60ft are equal @ 1.39 best. He went 9.80 @ 139 and I went 9.79 @ 138.7 on the same day.
He hasn't bested that yet but I've since gone 9.71 @ 140. I think his car would pick up HP with a similar lift cam to mine, I would obviously run a better et at 200lb less and with 4:30 gears. I think these cars would still be pretty close given the above but I still rib him that I would be infront
When I first started out racing in '89, Hemi's were way expensive, you could build a higher HP wedge for the same money so I guess I've stuck with what I know. That having said a hemi does look really impressive in an engine bay but everyone expects a hemi to be quicker than a wedge.
Advantage wedge in my humble opinion


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Hemi Vs Wedge Debate [Re: Tig] #176879
12/30/08 08:32 AM
12/30/08 08:32 AM
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Finalnd, Perkele
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jyrki Offline
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I remember reading about Koffels creating the B1 engine, they ahd previously played with the Hemis, and according to that article their first B1 mule made 60 hp more than their best NHRA legal PS Hemi. I believe the last Hemi to qualify in NHRA PS was Reid Whistnant, maybe in 1987? When the rules changed I would have thought that Hemi would be The Choice in NHRA PS, but it wasn't competitive. The last one to try was Jeff Wick, he was usually about 0.3 seconds behind Alderman and his N...aturally aspirated B1. Hemi heads have the capability of flowing great, and if head flow is what you are lacking, then it's the key to producing more power. However, it is not so with all out smallish wedge engines. Current wedge heads flow well wnough, and the engines have volumetric efficiences in the 130% range. With that kind of volumetric efficiencies you don't benefit from better flow, other things become more important and the ones that will make the difference. In 1964 things were different, they needed flow and hte Hemi was the answer. Same is still true with "underheaded" engines, (usually very big displacement) engines with limited bore to stroke ratio. That's the only place where naturally aspirated Hemis still have an edge over even a conventional, modern Wedge like the W7,8&9's. If Hemi really were the answer, there would be nothing else.


Plynouth VIP '67 TT IC EFI
Re: Hemi Vs Wedge Debate [Re: jyrki] #176880
12/30/08 11:01 AM
12/30/08 11:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,866
North of Detroit
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I can admit that the Hemi isn't the answer for a heads up horsepower/dollar enviornment. But I like taking a unique motor and trying to do something with it. I think a big hemi has more character then a single 4 bbl wedge. However if i was doing a car that had the most horsepower / cube / dollar it wouldn't be a wedge. Id be in some tube chassis cobalt with chevy power.


In God we trust, all others pay cash. www.lightnens.com (Home of the world's fastest Paint Job)
Re: Hemi Vs Wedge Debate [Re: HemiDart68] #176881
12/30/08 08:34 PM
12/30/08 08:34 PM
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Posts: 247
nc
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moeflo Offline
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Quote:

I can admit that the Hemi isn't the answer for a heads up horsepower/dollar enviornment. But I like taking a unique motor and trying to do something with it. I think a big hemi has more character then a single 4 bbl wedge. However if i was doing a car that had the most horsepower / cube / dollar it wouldn't be a wedge. Id be in some tube chassis cobalt with chevy power.





If you define "the most horsepower / cube / dollar literally, as things currently stand you just gave yourself zero choice other than a Roberts/Kasse Ford hemi or a Sonny's hemi (cough)Chevy. Well past center on the hemi-side of the wedge-hemi scale.
Hemis, wedges, big and small blocks all have places where they shine. We can argue forever and that won't change.

Re: Hemi Vs Wedge Debate [Re: HemiDart68] #176882
12/30/08 08:48 PM
12/30/08 08:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
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I wonder how much it would cost to put a wedge in the 4's?
Like the old saying goes"The Hemi turns on when everything else turns off"

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