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Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Instigate] #1758611 03/10/15 02:53 PM 03/10/15 02:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	I do not believe there is a plenum gasket on the TBI motors, a splash shield yes, but it's not connected to the plenum. Kinda fighting the same issue on my daughter's 97 Exploder myself, and no it is not the intake gaskets. I am looking for vacuum leaks now. Based on your comment about failing the evap test I wonder if you have one too? They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Supercuda] #1758612 03/10/15 05:38 PM 03/10/15 05:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	I assumed he was calling the intake a plenum. I found the EVAP leak. It's at the tank. The little plastic nipple that the EVAP line plugs into at the tank broke off. I tried to JB Weld it without dropping the tank but it didn't work. I'm going to drop the tank and fix it. And I replaced all vacuum hose. This truck is from Arizona so all the plastic is very brittle. But at least the rust is almost non existent. Last edited by Instigate; 03/10/15 05:45 PM.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Instigate] #1758613 03/10/15 07:32 PM 03/10/15 07:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	The Magnum engines have a plate bolted to the bottom of the intake plenum that can leak oil into the intake tract. The TBI intake does not, pointing it out for anyone trying to follow along at home. I was thinking more on your problem at lunch today. The TBI system is fairly stupid, in the sense that it cannot sense or pop a fault code for a lot of stuff that today's smarter systems can and will. I wonder if capping off that leaky EVAP line for testing purposes will affect your symptoms. I do not know how and when that line purges. But it almost sounds like you have a vacuum leak somewhere the system cannot compensate for adequately. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Supercuda] #1758614 03/10/15 08:02 PM 03/10/15 08:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	Quote: The Magnum engines have a plate bolted to the bottom of the intake plenum that can leak oil into the intake tract. The TBI intake does not, pointing it out for anyone trying to follow along at home. I was thinking more on your problem at lunch today. The TBI system is fairly stupid, in the sense that it cannot sense or pop a fault code for a lot of stuff that today's smarter systems can and will. I wonder if capping off that leaky EVAP line for testing purposes will affect your symptoms. I do not know how and when that line purges. But it almost sounds like you have a vacuum leak somewhere the system cannot compensate for adequately. Interesting. Could give it a shot. Also. I've been driving the truck around and when I got under to check out the EVAP situation I saw that I've got oil leaking from the rear of the engine. 8455840-IMG_20150310_134153.jpg (126 downloads)

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Instigate] #1758615 03/10/15 08:28 PM 03/10/15 08:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	At idle, in park, if I hold the throttle just barely open the engine stumbles and sounds like its going to die. /Capped off EGR and driveability is fixed with it capped. No vacuum going to the EGR. I assume the solenoid is bad. I'll have to take it off and test it. Problem now is, I guess I over torqued a bolt that holds the water pump on and now i've got a coolant leak up front I've got to deal with. 8455867-IMG_20150310_172534.jpg (91 downloads) Last edited by Instigate; 03/10/15 10:56 PM.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Instigate] #1758616 03/10/15 11:26 PM 03/10/15 11:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,407 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN... N NITROUSN I Live Here
NITROUSN I Live Here N Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,407 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...	Replace the valve with the transducer. I could of told you that was the problem but as I recall you stated somewhere that unhooking the EGR did not help.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: NITROUSN] #1758617 03/11/15 12:00 AM 03/11/15 12:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	Quote: Replace the valve with the transducer. I could of told you that was the problem but as I recall you stated somewhere that unhooking the EGR did not help. Why would I replace the EGR when it does work. When I apply vacuum to the EGR the engine stumbles, showing that the EGR WILL function if it was being given vacuum. And idk what component you're trying to describe by saying transducer. Do you mean the solenoid? The EGR is not getting vacuum. I'm going to test the solenoid. I suggest you re-read the thread because what I said is that I had tested it before the rebuild and that I should test it again. But I got distracted with that TPS code and never tried it again till I remembered today that I had not tried that again.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Instigate] #1758618 03/11/15 12:07 AM 03/11/15 12:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,407 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN... N NITROUSN I Live Here
NITROUSN I Live Here N Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,407 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...	Does your EGR assembly not look like this pic. If so where is the solenoid you talk about? 8456088-4F1234__ra_t.jpg (95 downloads)

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Instigate] #1758619 03/11/15 12:28 AM 03/11/15 12:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,407 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN... N NITROUSN I Live Here
NITROUSN I Live Here N Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,407 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...	Quote: I suggest you re-read the thread because what I said is that Quote: I did and this is what you said. So by your own words you said I will check it right now. So dont be to quick to tell me to re-read as I am only trying to help. I wont complain because the pay is so good. Quote: I tried blocking off the EGR before I did the rebuild but I'll try it again. I'll check the vacuum again. I assumed it was doing that because the timing was off but I shouldn't assume. I'll check it again right now. I did and this is what you said. So by your own words you said I will check it right now. So dont be to quick to tell me to re-read as I am only trying to help. I wont complain because the pay is so good

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: NITROUSN] #1758620 03/11/15 12:59 AM 03/11/15 12:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	Quote: Quote: I suggest you re-read the thread because what I said is that Quote: I did and this is what you said. So by your own words you said I will check it right now. So dont be to quick to tell me to re-read as I am only trying to help. I wont complain because the pay is so good. Quote: I tried blocking off the EGR before I did the rebuild but I'll try it again. I'll check the vacuum again. I assumed it was doing that because the timing was off but I shouldn't assume. I'll check it again right now. I did and this is what you said. So by your own words you said I will check it right now. So dont be to quick to tell me to re-read as I am only trying to help. I wont complain because the pay is so good I did say I would check it but I never posted back saying I did and mention the results. Anyways, "I could have told you so" doesn't really help. And I'm not convinced the EGR needs to be replaced. It works when vacuum is applied. Quote: Does your EGR assembly not look like this pic. If so where is the solenoid you talk about? Yes, it does look like that. The solenoid is on the passenger side valve cover, with the other two solenoids(EGR,EVAP,and I forget the other one, Air Inj?). It's what controls the vacuum going to the EGR transducer and the transducer controls it also. There is no vacuum going the the transducer so that tells me there is something wrong with the solenoid. But There is no reason to replace a part that has not been deemed bad. That's the main problem I have with your suggestion. I don't mean to sound rude or unappreciative but I need help that is based in logic. Not just swapping a part because that's your guess. Last edited by Instigate; 03/11/15 02:48 AM.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Instigate] #1758621 03/11/15 09:20 AM 03/11/15 09:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	So it's a vacuum leak to atmosphere at the solenoid and not a vacuum leak past the solenoid opening the EGR? They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Instigate] #1758622 03/11/15 09:38 AM 03/11/15 09:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,407 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN... N NITROUSN I Live Here
NITROUSN I Live Here N Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,407 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...	Quote: Yes, it does look like that. The solenoid is on the passenger side valve cover, with the other two solenoids(EGR,EVAP,and I forget the other one, Air Inj?). It's what controls the vacuum going to the EGR transducer and the transducer controls it also. There is no vacuum going the the transducer so that tells me there is something wrong with the solenoid. But There is no reason to replace a part that has not been deemed bad. That's the main problem I have with your suggestion. I don't mean to sound rude or unappreciative but I need help that is based in logic. Not just swapping a part because that's your guess. OK, Then you now need to get out the FSM and diagnose the EGR system's operation.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Supercuda] #1758623 03/12/15 03:08 AM 03/12/15 03:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	Quote: So it's a vacuum leak to atmosphere at the solenoid and not a vacuum leak past the solenoid opening the EGR? Was thinking that But the solenoid tests good. I don't think there is a leak.I don't know why I wasn't getting a vacuum reading the first time but there is vacuum, a very steady 18hg before the transducer and vibrating between 20-15 after. EGR valve itself is functional and the valve and transducer was replaced before the rebuild. But what changed now is the truck wont even idle smooth anymore without the EGR blocked off. It was driving somewhat ok before and was just stumbling and very low acceleration but now it's garbage unless I cap off the EGR. I didn't change anything. I removed the solenoid and tested it, put it back. Tested the EGR for functionality, removed it and visually looked for functionality, put it back. Removed the all the solenoids and tested them and looked them over, put them back. No vacuum leaks anywhere. Checked for battery voltage at the solenoid and it is present. I don't see what changed. Why it wont idle smooth unless EGR is blocked off. /It's been a while since I've had to test an EGR and I'm remembering that it's not suppose to have vacuum at idle right? Going to the EGR. Only when I pull the throttle cable right? So what's happening is the computer is giving EGR at idle for some reason. Or a wiring fault causing constant signal to the EGR solenoid. Last edited by Instigate; 03/12/15 04:13 AM.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Instigate] #1758624 03/12/15 02:04 PM 03/12/15 02:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	So, if you unplug the wires to the solenoid it smooths out? If so that's eliminate the mechanics of the system and point to the control circuit. Not sure if the EGR system is pulse width modulated or not, but that could account for the choppy vacuum reading you saw. I don't believe there should be EGR at idle, I know on the older mechanical only systems there isn't. Might be time to crack open the FSM and read up on EGR operation. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Supercuda] #1758625 03/12/15 02:27 PM 03/12/15 02:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	Quote: So, if you unplug the wires to the solenoid it smooths out? If so that's eliminate the mechanics of the system and point to the control circuit. Not sure if the EGR system is pulse width modulated or not, but that could account for the choppy vacuum reading you saw. I don't believe there should be EGR at idle, I know on the older mechanical only systems there isn't. Might be time to crack open the FSM and read up on EGR operation. I don't have a legit FSM. All I have is a chiltons and you can imagine how helpful the section about EGR was. Where can I get a FSM? Amazon only has a diesel one of the right vintage. I found it on another site but was listed for over $100. Screw that. And now my password for Mitchel on Demand, from the last shop I worked for, stopped working. /Only thing that makes sense is a wire fault leading to a constant signal on to the EGR solenoid. /I think the choppy vac signal is what the transducer does. IDk why. I though maybe someone would know. Last edited by Instigate; 03/12/15 02:31 PM.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Instigate] #1758626 03/12/15 02:47 PM 03/12/15 02:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	http://www.allpar.com/i/manuals.html For manuals. Unfortunately, I am not familiar at all with the later EGR setups. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Supercuda] #1758627 03/12/15 02:57 PM 03/12/15 02:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	Quote: http://www.allpar.com/i/manuals.html For manuals. Unfortunately, I am not familiar at all with the later EGR setups. $72.50 for it. Website say's on CD. So you have to wait for a CD to come in the mail? They should have it setup so you just pay and download. I might grab it but since I would have to wait for it to come I feel like I would be better off asking the board to post a picture of just the section I need. For free. /I just talked to a friend that I used to work with, he's a SMOG tech, and he said that a wire fault is the only thing he can think of that would cause that. Last edited by Instigate; 03/12/15 04:59 PM.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Instigate] #1758628 03/12/15 07:05 PM 03/12/15 07:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	http://www.genosgarage.com/1989-DODGE-RAM-FACTORY-SERVICE-CD/productinfo/DFSM89_CD/ $35.00 for the CD, best I can find. Can't find anything that allows instant download though. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Supercuda] #1758629 03/12/15 08:01 PM 03/12/15 08:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	Quote: http://www.genosgarage.com/1989-DODGE-RAM-FACTORY-SERVICE-CD/productinfo/DFSM89_CD/ $35.00 for the CD, best I can find. Can't find anything that allows instant download though. Nice! Thanks for taking a look. I Searched for it and did not find that website. I might grab that one if I can't find a physical book that's not on ebay and a reasonable price. Also, I don't know how I messed this up but the solenoid is bad. I swear the first time I tested it, it was working. Although it seems more likely that I messed up somehow but idk. I used to work as a SMOG tech. If there's one thing I know it's emissions equipment. So I'm kind of confused what I did wrong. But anyways, solenoid is bad. Discontinued part, none of the parts stores even know what I'm talking about... They just want to sell me an EGR valve. I did find the EVAP solenoid. Is there a difference between them?

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Instigate] #1758630 03/12/15 08:10 PM 03/12/15 08:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	I think this is what they are calling an evap solenoid Here. If you can read the OEM part number off the solenoid you have Rockauto has a crossreference search function. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

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