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89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls #1758551 02/19/15 06:37 PM 02/19/15 06:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	89 D150 318 TBI auto Symptoms: When I start it up it idles normal. If I give it a little gas it wants to stall and then the idle raises and lowers over and over then will even out or stall. Before I had the engine rebuilt I checked the cam lift and it was way under spec. And being that the engine had 300k miles on it I had it rebuilt. But to my surprise I guess it wasn't the camshaft after all and it's having the same symptoms. I haven't been able to go seat the rings because of the symptoms. Before the rebuild I was able to move the truck to my new place(thankfully with a 2car garage) by just flooring it all the way and putting it in neutral and reving at stoplights. But I still stalled a couple times. Was sketchy. I checked the flash codes and I get a 3-5-5. I know 5-5 is to signal the end of the codes but 3 is not listed. I wanted to check the vacuum because it was weak before the rebuild. The vacuum is vibrating rapidly between 15 and 18 in. hg. Fuel pressure is at 15 with the fpr vacuum hose connected but the fuel pressure doesn't go up when I disconnect the vacuum hose. So I check for vacuum going to the fpr and there is none. But when I pinched the return line I saw the fuel pressure go up. If anyone has any ideas I would be grateful. Very discouraging not being able to figure this problem out. Here is a link to the other thread I had going for further info but I think I covered it here. https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...c=1#Post8431444 Last edited by Instigate; 02/20/15 06:32 AM.

Re: Flash Code Question and FPR Vacuum Question [Re: Instigate] #1758552 02/20/15 02:02 AM 02/20/15 02:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	So I was reading about the TBI system in my book and I found this. Now, mine is an 89 model but I could see them using the throttle body on more than one year. But it says just rough idle, not fluctuating idle. But it does have trouble starting once it's hot and stalls out. Have to give it a min before it will start again. So it does seem somewhat right. Has anyone had one of these 2409 or earlier throttle bodies? Mine is stamped with 0069. So it is 2409 or earlier as long as that is the right stamp I'm looking at. Last edited by Instigate; 02/20/15 02:03 AM.

Re: Flash Code Question and FPR Vacuum Question [Re: Instigate] #1758553 02/21/15 02:16 AM 02/21/15 02:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	So I tore the throttle body apart today. That's a hole in the screen. And both are dirty as hell. 8436174-IMG_20150220_175517.jpg (332 downloads)

Re: Flash Code Question and FPR Vacuum Question [Re: Instigate] #1758554 02/21/15 02:17 AM 02/21/15 02:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	Other one. 8436175-IMG_20150220_175425.jpg (229 downloads)

Re: Flash Code Question and FPR Vacuum Question [Re: Instigate] #1758555 02/21/15 09:17 PM 02/21/15 09:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 10,570 Sunny South Florida Golden-Arm I Live Here
Golden-Arm I Live Here Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 10,570 Sunny South Florida	since you have them out, run the fuel pump (ignition on) and catch some fuel in a bucket, to clean the lines. run it into a coffee filter, and you can see if there's any sediment. get your new injectors, and run seafoam through the fuel system, by adding it to the tank. looks like alcohol contamination, due to blended fuel. "When Tyranny Becomes Law, Rebellion Becomes Duty"

Re: Flash Code Question and FPR Vacuum Question [Re: Golden-Arm] #1758556 02/23/15 08:48 PM 02/23/15 08:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	So the new injectors fixed my driveability problem. But the freeze plugs and the rear of the engine are leaking so the machine shop is going to tow it to a shop in my area to pull the tranny and swap out the plug.

Re: Flash Code Question and FPR Vacuum Question [Re: Instigate] #1758557 02/23/15 11:33 PM 02/23/15 11:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 12,481 Chino Valley RodStRace I Live Here
RodStRace I Live Here Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 12,481 Chino Valley	Glad to hear you got the idle issue resolved.

Re: Flash Code Question and FPR Vacuum Question [Re: RodStRace] #1758558 02/23/15 11:44 PM 02/23/15 11:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Way to stay on top of it. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: Flash Code Question and FPR Vacuum Question [Re: Supercuda] #1758559 02/24/15 06:52 PM 02/24/15 06:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	Quote: Way to stay on top of it. Thank you everyone for the suggestions. I feel a little bit stupid for having not checked the injectors before but the spray pattern looked fine. Hopefully they can tell me where the transmission leak is coming from when they pull it to replace the leaky freeze plug on the back of the engine. Then all I would have to worry about it a new paint job, new carpet in the cab, and reupholster the bench seat and I'll really be styling.

Re: Flash Code Question and FPR Vacuum Question [Re: Instigate] #1758560 02/27/15 12:11 AM 02/27/15 12:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	I guess I spoke too soon... The new injectors helped a great deal but I'm still having hesitation and lack of power. When I come to a stop I see the dummy lights flicker like it's going to stall but it doesn't. The truck got towed to a shop where they replaced freeze plugs and now it's not leaking anymore. But on the drive home I noticed it was not right. Tomorrow I'm going to recheck the timing and test the TPS sensor again to be damn sure it's good. If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears. So sick of this. Last edited by Instigate; 02/27/15 12:12 AM.

Re: Flash Code Question and FPR Vacuum Question [Re: Instigate] #1758561 02/27/15 08:48 PM 02/27/15 08:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	I checked the timing again and it was off so I corrected that and gave it a quick test drive and I think I've fixed it. I wont know for sure till I go take it to get smoged and take it on the freeway. I would have gone for a longer test drive but the tags are no good and I was super low on gas so I just came back home. I'm going to get some more gas and go get her smoged tomorrow probably.

Re: Flash Code Question and FPR Vacuum Question [Re: Instigate] #1758562 03/03/15 06:30 PM 03/03/15 06:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	So I put more gas in and paid my DMV fees but when I went to go to my buddy's SMOG shop the truck actually stalled on me and was having bad hesitation on light acceleration. My only guess now could maybe be a bad electrical connection at the computer or the plugs someone told me to clean behind passenger side valve cover. I'll take that stuff apart and clean it up. If anyone has any suggestions I would be thrilled. /and also re test that TPS. Last edited by Instigate; 03/03/15 06:33 PM.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Instigate] #1758563 03/03/15 07:01 PM 03/03/15 07:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 21,398 It's a dry heat gtx6970 Too Many Posts
gtx6970 Too Many Posts Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 21,398 It's a dry heat	How are you setting ignition timing.? I dont remember the applicable years but some of them require a DRB to set it and NOT a timing light

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: gtx6970] #1758564 03/03/15 07:12 PM 03/03/15 07:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	Quote: How are you setting ignition timing.? I dont remember the applicable years but some of them require a DRB to set it and NOT a timing light I'm setting it with a timing light. Let it get up to temp then unplug the CTS on the intake manifold and set it by adjusting the dist and using the timing light.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Instigate] #1758565 03/03/15 07:53 PM 03/03/15 07:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Quote: Quote: How are you setting ignition timing.? I dont remember the applicable years but some of them require a DRB to set it and NOT a timing light I'm setting it with a timing light. Let it get up to temp then unplug the CTS on the intake manifold and set it by adjusting the dist and using the timing light. that's correct. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Supercuda] #1758566 03/03/15 11:14 PM 03/03/15 11:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	Quote: Quote: Quote: How are you setting ignition timing.? I dont remember the applicable years but some of them require a DRB to set it and NOT a timing light I'm setting it with a timing light. Let it get up to temp then unplug the CTS on the intake manifold and set it by adjusting the dist and using the timing light. that's correct. Though so. TPS is good. It gradually reads from 1.5v-4v. Book says anything from .5v-1.5v up to 3.5v-4v. I also cleaned all the terminals and reapplied new dielectric grease. I suppose next I will hook up my fuel pressure gauge in a way that I can see it while I'm driving. The fuel pump was replaced right before my grandfather left the truck to me and only had about a year or so of driving on it. One thing I noticed was that when I tested the TPS while I was moving the throttle plates to WOT a mist of fuel vapor came rising up out of the intake. What's with that? Is that normal? I took it for a test drive and it was still having the hesitation and felt like it was going to stall but it didn't. Seemed like the cleaning of the connectors might have made some small difference but maybe it has nothing to do with the cleaning. Was a very slight improvement.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Instigate] #1758567 03/03/15 11:19 PM 03/03/15 11:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Run the codes and see what the computer thinks is wrong. That'll at least point in a direction. Not sure about the mist, I assume the test was done with key on, engine off? Only thing I can think of is that when you first switch the engine on, I believe the TBI pumps a shot of gas to prime the system for starting. But it has been a long time and I might be mistaken. Odds are that you turned the key on and by the time you got to the throttle for testing the shot was over and just the fumes remained. Might pay to have someone turn the key on while you watch to verify. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Supercuda] #1758568 03/04/15 01:09 AM 03/04/15 01:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	Quote: Run the codes and see what the computer thinks is wrong. That'll at least point in a direction. Not sure about the mist, I assume the test was done with key on, engine off? Only thing I can think of is that when you first switch the engine on, I believe the TBI pumps a shot of gas to prime the system for starting. But it has been a long time and I might be mistaken. Odds are that you turned the key on and by the time you got to the throttle for testing the shot was over and just the fumes remained. Might pay to have someone turn the key on while you watch to verify. Yeah that's what I was thinking happened but not sure. I turned the key already having the DMM tapped in and did the test. Last time I checked the codes it was 12-55 no problems. I'll check it again tho would be nice if something tripped a code.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Supercuda] #1758569 03/04/15 06:11 PM 03/04/15 06:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	Quote: Run the codes and see what the computer thinks is wrong. That'll at least point in a direction. Not sure about the mist, I assume the test was done with key on, engine off? Only thing I can think of is that when you first switch the engine on, I believe the TBI pumps a shot of gas to prime the system for starting. But it has been a long time and I might be mistaken. Odds are that you turned the key on and by the time you got to the throttle for testing the shot was over and just the fumes remained. Might pay to have someone turn the key on while you watch to verify. I got a code! It's giving me 24 TPS v out of range. But it's getting good readings at the sensor. I'm going to check the pin at the computer and see what it's getting at the computer.

Re: 89 318 TBI Freshly Rebuilt Engine Idle Surging / Stalls [Re: Instigate] #1758570 03/04/15 08:37 PM 03/04/15 08:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego Instigate OP member
Instigate OP member Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 156 San Diego	So I've got zero resistance on the signal wire all the way to the computer and I'm getting good reading right at the SMEC(PCM) plug(1.34v-4.04v). So the TPS looks like it's good and the wiring is legit. Am I looking at a bad computer possibly? I guess I'll take the SMEC out and apart. Maybe there will be something obviously wrong in there, blown capacitor or what not. Last edited by Instigate; 03/04/15 08:38 PM.

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