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Re: Bang for Buck 440 Motor Mods Stockish 67
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1756894
02/18/15 02:56 PM
02/18/15 02:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584
MD
p d'ro
OP
pro stock
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OP
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MD
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Quote:
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We probably have similar builds and I am not impressed with my car either.. While it sounds like my car runs better than yours, still not very impressive in the "seat of the pants" test.. I think biggest problem is my 2.94 rear gears, as I just cruise the car, not interested in racing it...
I did not check cam gearing or if my original damper timing mark has slipped, so I can't complain, just giving you some feedback..
Stock 040 over 440
Original carb, exhausts, 915 heads, forged pistons, heads milled to appx 9.5-1 ( CC,d) 375 hp stock ( new) cam,..
2.94s can really kill a stock setup and make it feel piggy. Its funny, if you put them behind a radical engine it will make it harder/more tempermental to drive, but it will still pour on power and go. Stock stuff really feels better with some gear. I think the most impressed I've ever been with a true stock car was a 383 Road Runner with 4.10s and a 4 speed.
And don't forget most of these cars came with 2.94s and 3.23s came with something like F70-14s which are only around 26.5 inches tall.
To the OP I'm hesitant to say this, but I honestly think 20" of vacuum is a little high for that cam. I really wouldn't be surprised if that cam is not in the engine. Does it have a little gallop at idle or is it really smooth? Again though, it should still fry the tires.
It better be in the engine! I have the card in hand and paid for it. Maybe the old switcharoo? This is a mild cam similar to stock. It has a little lope to it.
I couldn't pull this much vacuum with pistons sitting too low, could I?
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Re: Bang for Buck 440 Motor Mods Stockish 67
[Re: p d'ro]
#1756895
02/18/15 03:00 PM
02/18/15 03:00 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
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IMO no, if that was an 8:1 engine I don't think you could pull 20 inches with it. I'd honestly expect more like 17 inches with that cam, but you've got your initial timing set pretty well assuming the mark is right. So its possible, I'd just expect less. More is good if you do have the right cam, just wondering if they put a sealed power lo po cam in or something. Really its neither here nor there, because it would still run better regardless.
As has been said run the cranking compression test. It doesn't mean anything if its high, but if its low you have problems (I know sounds encouraging doesnt it?). And get the 02 in. Do you know anyone with a carb you can borrow?
One more question, you DID unplug the vacuum advance when you set the timing right? And did you verify your total with the light, or assume it to be correct based off of the info on the distributor?
Last edited by GTX MATT; 02/18/15 03:01 PM.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Bang for Buck 440 Motor Mods Stockish 67
[Re: p d'ro]
#1756897
02/18/15 03:30 PM
02/18/15 03:30 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
GTX MATT
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Technically, by the book, yes it is supposed to by hot. Yes all the plugs are supposed to be out. In my experience on hydraulic cammed engines with cast pistons hot vs cold doesn't really matter. And cast iron manifolds take FOREVER to cool off. In my experience 1 plug removed yields the same results as all plugs removed. Try it cold because its so much easier, and go one plug at a time if you like. If its low then worry about if you need to do it warm or not. 
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Bang for Buck 440 Motor Mods Stockish 67
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1756898
02/18/15 03:43 PM
02/18/15 03:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,747
ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
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ohio
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Never mind my low vacuum comment, too early and I saw 14" and 20degrees...
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: Bang for Buck 440 Motor Mods Stockish 67
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#1756900
02/18/15 05:27 PM
02/18/15 05:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584
MD
p d'ro
OP
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OP
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Quote:
What is the idle rpm? Maybe set high enough as a crutch that the vacuum is artificially high. Could all tie back to a too tight convertor for this cam. Or massive vacuum leaks.
I tracked a minor vacuum leak to the booster check valve. Fixed it. Sprayed brake cleaner everywhere and find nothing else. Car runs super cool never over 190 in mid summer DC heat. RPM at 850 set to max vacuum, screws out about 1.75 turns each. Car idles great and doesn't roam.
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Re: Bang for Buck 440 Motor Mods Stockish 67
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1756902
02/18/15 09:03 PM
02/18/15 09:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584
MD
p d'ro
OP
pro stock
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OP
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One more question, you DID unplug the vacuum advance when you set the timing right? And did you verify your total with the light, or assume it to be correct based off of the info on the distributor?
I have a dial back light. Pulled distributor advance hose and plugged. Have 14 to 16 initial. Set light to 36 and pulled throttle. Lines came together at about 2500 rpm. Engine was warm.
I have never replaced the chrome box since I have owned the car. I wonder if it here is an issue there. It doesn't seem to break down. Always seems to run fine now, just not super strong. I may get a new box since I replaced the rest of the tune parts and just keep old as a back up..
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Re: Bang for Buck 440 Motor Mods Stockish 67
[Re: p d'ro]
#1756903
02/19/15 01:25 AM
02/19/15 01:25 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836
Florida
mopar346
Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
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Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836
Florida
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For a reference point, I took my 69 RT out today with a tired, poorly running, bogging 77 trooper 440 with the stock truck converter and 3.23 sure grip, 27ish inch tall tires (gear killer) and 9.5 inches of rubber to the ground on each side. From a dead stop warm I can stump it and it will leave 2 black marks for an easy 2 car lengths and roll smoke of the tires, if I flex up against the convertor and cut it lose I can pretty much make them go up in smoke. I say all this to point out that even if your compression is junk a reasonably tuned 440 much less a fresh one should have plenty of torque to break the tires loose. I think you are dealing with more than just low compression, cause I know mine is nowhere near 8:1.
Last edited by mopar346; 02/19/15 01:35 PM.
Careful, your character's showing!
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Re: Bang for Buck 440 Motor Mods Stockish 67
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1756907
02/19/15 03:04 PM
02/19/15 03:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
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I don't think any of the HP, Magnum, 375 HP 440 where 10.0 to one except the 1970 440-6 pak 390 HP motors that had the advertised deck hieghts of +.005 above the decks, all the rest of the 375 HP 440 HP Magnums had around 9.2 to 1 compression ratio or lower from the factory due to combustion chamber sizes being way bigger than blueprint specs., same thing on the deck hieghts, way lower than blueprint specs.   OP, that 262H cam is a known little bitty baby cam   
Cab , that ADVERTISED height would be an NHRA spec and they never were the same as actual factory built.
Then there is ADVERTISED Compression ratio which was also overstated by Chrysler.
Because of the closed chamber the 67 440 had a piston that was probably .080 in the hole, he's lucky if he got those.
With 20" of vac with that small cam is not surprising , his 5k top end is in part because of the 67 intake which is probably the worst of the 440 stock iron 4bbls.
Add me to the performer 750 hate train .
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Re: Bang for Buck 440 Motor Mods Stockish 67
[Re: p d'ro]
#1756908
02/19/15 04:00 PM
02/19/15 04:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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My friend in HS/College had a 70 340 Swinger that ran 12.4 and did not break loose the tires. He did have wide MT street tires and it hooked like crazy, almost snapping your neck.
I don't think there is anything majorly wrong with it, just feel it should do better. Once it warms up and I can get a compression test, fuel pressure gauge, and A/F on it, I guess I will know more.
Dude it's way too cold out to be monkeying around on that thing...  You shouldn't need a fuel pressure gauge or A/F meter to tune that car. And a stock 67 440 should smoke the tires even w/ one plug wire pulled. My old 67 GTX w/ mostly stock engine (488 summit cam, CH4B intake) went 13.80's thru the logs and soda straw exhaust. Even w/ the tiny 625 Carter comp carb it would boil the 275/60/15 BFGs. When it warms up I'll try and get by and help ya.
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Re: Bang for Buck 440 Motor Mods Stockish 67
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1756909
02/19/15 05:38 PM
02/19/15 05:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
When it warms up I'll try and get by and help ya.
But it doesn't have a Holley ???
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Re: Bang for Buck 440 Motor Mods Stockish 67
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1756910
02/19/15 07:57 PM
02/19/15 07:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584
MD
p d'ro
OP
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Dec 2007
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Quote:
Quote:
My friend in HS/College had a 70 340 Swinger that ran 12.4 and did not break loose the tires. He did have wide MT street tires and it hooked like crazy, almost snapping your neck.
I don't think there is anything majorly wrong with it, just feel it should do better. Once it warms up and I can get a compression test, fuel pressure gauge, and A/F on it, I guess I will know more.
Dude it's way too cold out to be monkeying around on that thing... You shouldn't need a fuel pressure gauge or A/F meter to tune that car. And a stock 67 440 should smoke the tires even w/ one plug wire pulled. My old 67 GTX w/ mostly stock engine (488 summit cam, CH4B intake) went 13.80's thru the logs and soda straw exhaust. Even w/ the tiny 625 Carter comp carb it would boil the 275/60/15 BFGs. When it warms up I'll try and get by and help ya.
I will definitely take you up on that offer. Thanks!
So is a rebuilt stock Carter from Scott worth the trouble? I have a 4327s core I could do, but want bang for buck.. I know it will look pretty and fit under the hood on my stock iron manifold, but will it perform significantly better than the Eddy 750. I also like the electric choke on the Eddy. The FBO distributor tune and dialing in of the idle has eliminated the stumble.
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Re: Bang for Buck 440 Motor Mods Stockish 67
[Re: p d'ro]
#1756911
02/19/15 10:07 PM
02/19/15 10:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,310
Prospect, PA
BSB67
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,310
Prospect, PA
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So is a rebuilt stock Carter from Scott worth the trouble?
Not sure I know what you mean by worth the trouble. Carb swaps are pretty easy and fast to do.
If your current carb is functioning properly, there probably won't be a big difference, But I have no idea the current state of what you have.
The 4326 and 4327 are nice carbs IMO. After working on mine a little, I thought it did just about everything better than my 3310, including et and mph on my stock 440. But you would never know it by the seat of your pants. I'll probably get flamed by some 3310 lovers.
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Re: Bang for Buck 440 Motor Mods Stockish 67
[Re: BSB67]
#1756912
02/19/15 10:31 PM
02/19/15 10:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584
MD
p d'ro
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584
MD
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Quote:
Quote:
So is a rebuilt stock Carter from Scott worth the trouble?
Not sure I know what you mean by worth the trouble. Carb swaps are pretty easy and fast to do.
If your current carb is functioning properly, there probably won't be a big difference, But I have no idea the current state of what you have.
The 4326 and 4327 are nice carbs IMO. After working on mine a little, I thought it did just about everything better than my 3310, including et and mph on my stock 440. But you would never know it by the seat of your pants. I'll probably get flamed by some 3310 lovers.
My carb is in new condition. The trouble is sending off the stock Carter to Scott and spending the 400 dollars to restore it, then either going without an electric choke or trying to track down all of the choke stove parts. Not exactly a few minutes. Probably juice noy worth the squeeze? Money probably better spent in gear or heads?
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