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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: rickseeman]
#1752347
02/13/15 04:29 PM
02/13/15 04:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
I never have understood the Dana vs. 9" deal. It's like women driving SUV's. 40 years ago there wasn't a women in the United States driving a SUV. Then it became chic and now all women want to drive an SUV. 40 years ago there wasn't a 9" in any Mopar in the US. Now it's like a roller cam or a 400 GPH fuel pump, people feel like they won't be socially accepted if they don't have a 9". What a country. It's a Mopar. Put a Dana in it.
Uh, wrong. We ran a SS/GA Challenger in the early 70s. It had a Ford, as most other fast Super Stock cars did at the time. Jim Kinnett's SS/AA Cuda had a 12 bolt of all things in it back then....Why you may ask. Because he thought the 12 bolt took less power to turn and it was LIGHTER.
RACE cars and STREET cars, are two entirely different things. Running Super Stock, we carried 4 or 5 different centers with different ratios, depending on conditions. Class racers still do the same and few want to lay on their backs swapping gears in and out of a Dana. A street car, or a set it and forget it bracket car, sure, a Dana is a VERY viable choice, as they are strong and rock solid dependable. But just as they are a very GOOD choice for some cars, they are an equally POOR choice for others. Whats poor you ask........the ease of swapping ratios, the weight and the ability to properly brace the tubes. In a hard hooking, high HP car, you WILL bend the tubes and there is basically nothing you can do to fix it, short of building some type elaborate bracing structure. You do that, you have made an inherently heavy assy, that much heavier.
There is no "one size fits all" answer. You pick what is best for YOUR application. But its a MOPAR, so it should have a Dana is about the silliest reason there is for the choice. You pick what WORKS the best.
As far as 727 trans.........the answer is the same. You pick what WORKS. Nobody says the 727 is a pos, but in certain applications, there are better choices, as far as ratios and aftermarket parts. There are NO aftermarket cases for a 727. So you must run a shield or a blanket......that's a strike. The engine to pump bellhousing depth is shallow, that means the BEST converters cores won't fit without a spacer......that's a strike. Very limited ratio options.....that's a strike. Heaviest of the 3 speeds.......that's a strike. So nobody ahs ever said the 727 is a pos, it's just in certain applications, it is FAR from the best choice, regardless of the brand of the car and engine combo. Brand loyalty is great, but not at the expense of maximizing your combo..........if that is your goal.
We have dozens of companies who make front end kits to eliminate the torsion bars. Where is the outrage of the "purists" over that. Torsion bars are about as MOPAR as you get, yet that change is accepted......why? because it is BETTER. It is a more modern suspension and steering system, gives you better parts choices and frees up room for better pans and headers. Simply put, it is BETTER
Monte
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1752349
02/13/15 06:25 PM
02/13/15 06:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
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I have run 8 3/4 then a 9" then a Dana and I only have a Dana in the car now because it looks cool  I prefer the ease of service with a 9" though and the better selection of gears.  Gus 
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#1752350
02/13/15 06:46 PM
02/13/15 06:46 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
Eric
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
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I have a Dana in the Arrow...probably the only part I have'nt broke yet..  ...now I jinxed myself.
5.53 @ 125 1/8th on the launch control..more left in her!
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1752352
02/13/15 07:13 PM
02/13/15 07:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
I beg to differ on the weights of a 727 versus a TH400 or Ford C6, three drums versus two  904 parts in many, many SS race car trans Monte, I'm only trying to keep it true and honest    
All I know, is that our fully race prepped 400 in a Reid case, weighs 5lbs more than the fully prepped, Reid cased powerglide it replaced. Both are CONSIDERABLY lighter than the fully raced prepped, alum drum 727, with CSI shield, that I still have from my own car. Yep, 904 stuff can be light, but that is usually in lower power, or small block, lightweight Comp eliminator cars, that those combinations live. Put it behind big block power and see how it lasts.
Again, it is about what is BEST for the application. You can't compare apples to zebras..........LOL!!!
Monte
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: tboomer]
#1752353
02/13/15 07:15 PM
02/13/15 07:15 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I put the 9" in the Rampage because it was for DW and at first I thought about changing rear gears for the daily drive.. easy drop out the center and put a road gear in.. then I changed my mine for the 518 OD.. so glad I did... but the 9" will be under it with a 4.10 gear for now... I might make a gear change later EDIT For the Mopar purist.. the 8 3/4 IS a true mopar rear end.. designed and made in a Chrysler plant.. as was some of the smaller rears with the stamped housing 
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 02/13/15 07:28 PM.
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1752354
02/13/15 09:48 PM
02/13/15 09:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,233
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,233
fredericksburg,va
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Quote:
Quote:
Are we bracket racers or professional racers. Why do you want to change gear sets. If you run low 8ths or faster run the 9 and keep a wad of money ready. The dana, easy set up for 4 to 8 hundred bucks unless you need new parts.Set the gears up right and make sure its straight and it will last for years with no upkeep and one thing less to worry about.Funny, we go to the track and guys are adjusting valves,charging the battery,changing jets,resetting the bars all kind of stupid stuff,why? Don't make it complicated!
I didnt call it stupid stuff.. some times I'd spend
a Saturday and a Sunday just testing the 4-link..
that got me down to a 1.19 60'..and take most of a
day just doing jet changes ... I guess you are satisfied
with anything
Mr.P, it all depends on what you have in mind. On race day you better be ready to win not sorting out your car or you're first round snacks. Ever hear of a professional athlete say on game day"i'm going to hit or catch the ball a new way today or a golfer say i'm trying a new swing"? No, they are ready with what they know works. Sorting is for test and tune day unless all you want to do is profile, "oh look at me i can do 1.10 60s or i can run 8.90s". don't matter but what's dialed on the windshield, its a a bracket race-try to win or profile. The op said street-strip car = Cheap Dana with a 4.10 and STOCK parts, only thing ya need is a spool.
Don't need a wad of money? How many "free" center sections with all those high dollar parts in them you got laying around so you can try a few today?
Now the guy with the radials, how big are they-8-9-10 inch? If you weld the tubs to the center housing you will not twist a 1/4 thick-3 inch diam. tube that's maybe 16 inches long, now for flex forward a simple cm tube brace on the FRONT that weighs maybe 5 lbs will take care of that. If and when you put the 1800 hp engine up front and get a tube chassis then by all means put the high dollar 9 inch rear in it. I have to agree with Monte for once, its all about application, application, application.
I guess that covered all three
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1752355
02/13/15 10:14 PM
02/13/15 10:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I go on race day to race... but I have used a race day to strictly test because of the conditions of the track but I was still entered to race... on the tubes... you dont twist them you bend them... most times you will bend them from the leaf spring mount outward and you bend them forward... happens a LOT
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 02/14/15 01:23 AM.
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1752356
02/13/15 10:37 PM
02/13/15 10:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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A Dana or any rear under a small tire radial car will be fairly long. The leaf pads or even the ladder bar bracket will also be spaced out pretty far. Outside of these points is where a hard leaving radial car WILL bend the tubes. So the "brace" described above will also be pretty long, not have enough angle to be much support and will also need some type bracket welded onto the center case itself. These "forces" pushing on the center case are definitely not ideal, plus it will take a serious piece of chromoly tubing not to flex in this same application. So that leaves you with building some type of "truss", which gets heavy quick. This is not speculation on my part, but spoken from experience, as I have tried to "fix" this issue on some small tire cars with Danas. So as good as a Dana can be, this is just one of the applications where there are MUCH better choices.
Radial cars bend or break EVERYTHING. We had a very well braced sheetmetal housing under our car at one time, but it was mild steel. We bent it several times, when the car was 60 footing in the high teens. We had to upgrade to a moly housing with .250 wall moly tubes and some serious backbracing to fix it. Basically a Pro-Mod housing is what we built. You just can't properly brace a Dana axle tube to stop this without adding a LOT of weight and in my own attempts, even that doesn't work.
Some think I am always "hating" on Danas and 727s, because I suggest other options to many. That is FAR from the truth. I just happen to think there are better choices than those for certain applications. Now personally, I would NOT put a Dana in any car I owned, but that is personal preference and has no bearing on how good of a rear I think it is. For most on this board, it is a fine choice and you likely won't de disappointed with your choice.
Monte
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1752357
02/13/15 10:55 PM
02/13/15 10:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,360
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,360
Las Vegas
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Sorry I did not read all this. But here is my For the original poster and question in a street strip deal the big drawback to a Dana is gear selection. There simply is not as much available. But for this intended application I cannot imagine that is an issue. They also weigh a bit more being that they are a cast housing deal.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1752358
02/13/15 11:55 PM
02/13/15 11:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696
jersey
Spaceman Spiff
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696
jersey
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If this was anything other than a Mopar board, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Unless it's a killer, run what ever your budget dictates.
Know why i'm going to run a 9inch? Because if you know where to look, you can score a rear from a Lincoln Versailles for cheap, and they already come with disc brakes.
526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: Spaceman Spiff]
#1752359
02/14/15 12:13 AM
02/14/15 12:13 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
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You don't really want the Lincoln Versailles rear brakes. I used a Versailles housing in my car but the brakes are almost as expensive as a Strange setup after you rebuild everything. The rotors are directional and cost about $135 each and the calipers are really heavy and I doubt if you can even get them in a remanufactured form anymore. The housing also uses weird bearings too. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: justinp61]
#1752362
02/14/15 01:02 AM
02/14/15 01:02 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
How many street/strip cars have you seen that will bend a Dana? Besides that There are few tracks in my area that a radial will dead hook on. Holly Springs? Yes, hell you could make a bicycle with a big block hook there. I will agree. application, application.
A radial is hooked, or it's not. There is no in between regardless of the track.
As far as what street/strip car will bend a housing.........you would be surprised. MOST housings under even moderately powered cars are bent now. Don't believe it...........narrow a few with a jig and you will know. I could always tell when I bent my own........the car got harder to push than normal
Monte
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1752363
02/14/15 01:03 AM
02/14/15 01:03 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Are we bracket racers or professional racers. Why do you want to change gear sets. If you run low 8ths or faster run the 9 and keep a wad of money ready. The dana, easy set up for 4 to 8 hundred bucks unless you need new parts.Set the gears up right and make sure its straight and it will last for years with no upkeep and one thing less to worry about.Funny, we go to the track and guys are adjusting valves,charging the battery,changing jets,resetting the bars all kind of stupid stuff,why? Don't make it complicated!
I didnt call it stupid stuff.. some times I'd spend
a Saturday and a Sunday just testing the 4-link..
that got me down to a 1.19 60'..and take most of a
day just doing jet changes ... I guess you are satisfied
with anything
Mr.P, it all depends on what you have in mind. On race day you better be ready to win not sorting out your car or you're first round snacks. Ever hear of a professional athlete say on game day"i'm going to hit or catch the ball a new way today or a golfer say i'm trying a new swing"? No, they are ready with what they know works. Sorting is for test and tune day unless all you want to do is profile, "oh look at me i can do 1.10 60s or i can run 8.90s". don't matter but what's dialed on the windshield, its a a bracket race-try to win or profile. The op said street-strip car = Cheap Dana with a 4.10 and STOCK parts, only thing ya need is a spool.
Don't need a wad of money? How many "free" center sections with all those high dollar parts in them you got laying around so you can try a few today?
Now the guy with the radials, how big are they-8-9-10 inch? If you weld the tubs to the center housing you will not twist a 1/4 thick-3 inch diam. tube that's maybe 16 inches long, now for flex forward a simple cm tube brace on the FRONT that weighs maybe 5 lbs will take care of that. If and when you put the 1800 hp engine up front and get a tube chassis then by all means put the high dollar 9 inch rear in it. I have to agree with Monte for once, its all about application, application, application.
I guess that covered all three
Last I checked there are no "free" a body danas around. But by all means if any Mopar purist wants to give me a a-body Dana 60 for free I will gladly take it. Lol I would need to figure out how to brace it or I would just bend it. I keep bending the axle in the car.
At my power level I would need all aftermarket parts in a Dana so why not go with a lighter rear and make my car faster? Isn't this what we are looking for? To maximize the performance of our cars. I run 10 inch rims with a 275/60 radial and leaf springs so my axle is 46 inches wide. I have torn off leaf spring mounts also and have them boxed in now.
My car is also street legal and is driven on the street, exactly as it is driven on the track.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1752365
02/14/15 01:39 AM
02/14/15 01:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
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My brother just shelled out for a new S-60 housing under his Drag Week 6.0 cert 70 AMX. His reasoning was that he intends to run street gears, and none are available for the big pinion 9 inch. We will see how it works out, 572 Hemi and a Bruno/Lenco. I just run the small pinion street gears in my 9", with a relatively cheap s-case.
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
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Re: Street/strip diff upgrade: D60 vs 9" pros & cons
[Re: MoparBilly]
#1752366
02/14/15 02:36 AM
02/14/15 02:36 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
My brother just shelled out for a new S-60 housing under his Drag Week 6.0 cert 70 AMX. His reasoning was that he intends to run street gears, and none are available for the big pinion 9 inch. We will see how it works out, 572 Hemi and a Bruno/Lenco. I just run the small pinion street gears in my 9", with a relatively cheap s-case.
Bad move in my opinion, but maybe it will work out for him.............Pro gears are fine on the street by the way.........LOL!!! That's what every other big tire car on Drag Week uses. Haven't heard of anyone eating a gear yet
Monte
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My Duster was a lot easier to push after having a Dana 60 truck housing narrowed down to fit it to replace the 8 3/4 that I had bent the crap out of on the street 
, way easier to push 
