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Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#174192
12/25/08 10:27 AM
12/25/08 10:27 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
VernMotor
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,348
Mt.Vernon ,Ohio
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Quote:
Now, Bob, if we can get people to grasp that pinion angle has absolutely squat to do with traction and E/T, our job here would be finished! 
Yea I can't beleve how many times I hear this..(well give it more pinion angle it will hook better) How in the heck did this ever get started is be on me ! Then I ask them how ? or why do you think that ? its alway well so and so told me..
and I tell them it is not true//They act like they are heatbroken..
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Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60
[Re: VernMotor]
#174193
12/25/08 10:59 AM
12/25/08 10:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Now, Bob, if we can get people to grasp that pinion angle has absolutely squat to do with traction and E/T, our job here would be finished!
Yea I can't beleve how many times I hear this..(well give it more pinion angle it will hook better) How in the heck did this ever get started is be on me ! Then I ask them how ? or why do you think that ? its alway well so and so told me..
and I tell them it is not true//They act like they are heatbroken..
 with you guys but what if they were so far off on the pinion angle that it was causing some kind of traction problem or spring wrap issue? so they start cranking on the pinion angle and traction improves thus ET is gained?
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Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60
[Re: VernMotor]
#174194
12/25/08 11:06 AM
12/25/08 11:06 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
Now, Bob, if we can get people to grasp that pinion angle has absolutely squat to do with traction and E/T, our job here would be finished!
Yea I can't beleve how many times I hear this..(well give it more pinion angle it will hook better) How in the heck did this ever get started is be on me ! Then I ask them how ? or why do you think that ? its alway well so and so told me..
and I tell them it is not true//They act like they are heatbroken..
Now we have got the youngens to understand working range and pinion angles we can move on to the effects.Any mis-alignment or out of range of working angles and acute angles at the pinion can cause binding and rob horsepower and cause a car to have bad launch characteristics,loss of ET and loss of mph.It's like dragging the brakes except more damage can occur.Excessive driveshaft movement can cause the tailshaft to break,excessive u-joint binding can cause u-joint failure.This mis-alignment is not just regulated to up and down but side to side ranges also. Jamie,you are correct,there is no tuning to be gained by adjusting pinion angle,it needs to correctly established as your final adjustment to your suspension set up.The guidelines are set.If you gain anything from adjusting the pinion angle it is because you didn't have it right in the first place.
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Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60
[Re: B G Racing]
#174195
12/25/08 11:14 AM
12/25/08 11:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Now, Bob, if we can get people to grasp that pinion angle has absolutely squat to do with traction and E/T, our job here would be finished!
Yea I can't beleve how many times I hear this..(well give it more pinion angle it will hook better) How in the heck did this ever get started is be on me ! Then I ask them how ? or why do you think that ? its alway well so and so told me..
and I tell them it is not true//They act like they are heatbroken..
Now we have got the youngens to understand working range and pinion angles we can move on to the effects.Any mis-alignment or out of range of working angles and acute angles at the pinion can cause binding and rob horsepower and cause a car to have bad launch characteristics,loss of ET and loss of mph.It's like dragging the brakes except more damage can occur.Excessive driveshaft movement can cause the tailshaft to break,excessive u-joint binding can cause u-joint failure.This mis-alignment is not just regulated to up and down but side to side ranges also. Jamie,you are correct,there is no tuning to be gained by adjusting pinion angle,it needs to correctly established as your final adjustment to your suspension set up.The guidelines are set.If you gain anything from adjusting the pinion angle it is because you didn't have it right in the first place.
thats what I said but with out all of the drama  
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Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60
[Re: Quicktree]
#174196
12/25/08 11:28 AM
12/25/08 11:28 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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The reason I asked the first way to measure is because I am ordering a chr moly driveshaft monday since I put my new dana setup in (dont have a driveshaft)... With my old 8 3/4 I did it off the snubber pad and driveshaft but I am going out now to get measurements.. BRB ... lol
Mopar Performance
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Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60
[Re: mr2performance]
#174198
12/25/08 11:43 AM
12/25/08 11:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
 Quicktree, did you go to PRI?
yes I did, walked around until my legs were dead
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Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60
[Re: moparniac]
#174199
12/25/08 11:45 AM
12/25/08 11:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
The reason I asked the first way to measure is because I am ordering a chr moly driveshaft monday since I put my new dana setup in (dont have a driveshaft)... With my old 8 3/4 I did it off the snubber pad and driveshaft but I am going out now to get measurements.. BRB ... lol
you know the car has to be at race weight and height with driver in the car and full of fuel right?
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Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60
[Re: Quicktree]
#174200
12/25/08 12:07 PM
12/25/08 12:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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car is down on its suspension with proper weight applied.... -9(down) on the back of the dana same as off the yoke as well. -2(down) on the back of the tranny.....  caltracs are preloaded as well.. 
Last edited by wedgeOmatic; 12/25/08 12:08 PM.
Mopar Performance
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Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60
[Re: moparniac]
#174201
12/25/08 04:04 PM
12/25/08 04:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Well since you didnt add any driveshaft measurements some of the old school MP manual pinion angle enthusiast wont be able to respond! Because without the shaft measurement they are lost.  But for those in the know or who truly understand, We dont need no stinking shaft to figure the pinion angle   This old dog, says your sitting at a pinion angle of 11* down total from parallel. To much based on Caltracs recommendations. What do the other old school guys think.  I know, theres no shaft measurements involved  mike
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Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60
[Re: Sport440]
#174202
12/25/08 04:15 PM
12/25/08 04:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
OP
master
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what would you do... install a shim the other way on the spring what is caltracs recomendation.... its a 20" front segment and installed on the upper hole of the front spring hanger...
Last edited by wedgeOmatic; 12/25/08 04:20 PM.
Mopar Performance
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Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60
[Re: moparniac]
#174203
12/25/08 04:21 PM
12/25/08 04:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
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Quote:
what would you do... install a shim the other way on the spring what is caltracs recomendation....
its a 20" front segment and installed on the upper hole of the front spring hanger...
I don't like shims, if you have to cut and weld a new pad on the rear.
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Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60
[Re: DRAGRCR632]
#174206
12/25/08 05:28 PM
12/25/08 05:28 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 729
Lebanon,IN
mr2performance
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 729
Lebanon,IN
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Thanks, should have grabbed some polish and a rag. I may have even bought you dinner. I really don't like the front wheels they made us put on for the show. Wrong b/spacing and width, but they worked. The one piece ones that were on it are way cooler. Fun show even though Quicktree didn't stop by check my pinion angle . I also had my dragster up by the Mopar stage and even had a couple of prospective buyers.
MR2PERFORMANCE RACE CARS
765 483 9371
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Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60
[Re: mr2performance]
#174207
12/25/08 05:33 PM
12/25/08 05:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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what is the recomended pinion angle for caltracs... thx
Mopar Performance
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Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60
[Re: mr2performance]
#174208
12/25/08 05:45 PM
12/25/08 05:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Thanks, should have grabbed some polish and a rag. I may have even bought you dinner. I really don't like the front wheels they made us put on for the show. Wrong b/spacing and width, but they worked. The one piece ones that were on it are way cooler. Fun show even though Quicktree didn't stop by check my pinion angle . I also had my dragster up by the Mopar stage and even had a couple of prospective buyers.
what are you talking about, sixpackgut and I reset your pinion angle while you were off shooting the bull. there was so many people there we couldn't tell one from the other. we probably walked right past you and didn't know it.
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Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60
[Re: Quicktree]
#174209
12/25/08 06:19 PM
12/25/08 06:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Now, Bob, if we can get people to grasp that pinion angle has absolutely squat to do with traction and E/T, our job here would be finished!
Yea I can't beleve how many times I hear this..(well give it more pinion angle it will hook better) How in the heck did this ever get started is be on me ! Then I ask them how ? or why do you think that ? its alway well so and so told me..
and I tell them it is not true//They act like they are heatbroken..
Now we have got the youngens to understand working range and pinion angles we can move on to the effects.Any mis-alignment or out of range of working angles and acute angles at the pinion can cause binding and rob horsepower and cause a car to have bad launch characteristics,loss of ET and loss of mph.It's like dragging the brakes except more damage can occur.Excessive driveshaft movement can cause the tailshaft to break,excessive u-joint binding can cause u-joint failure.This mis-alignment is not just regulated to up and down but side to side ranges also. Jamie,you are correct,there is no tuning to be gained by adjusting pinion angle,it needs to correctly established as your final adjustment to your suspension set up.The guidelines are set.If you gain anything from adjusting the pinion angle it is because you didn't have it right in the first place.
thats what I said but with out all of the drama
Yeah,now that us old timers explained to you the difference between working angles and pinion angle.Maybe you youngsters will get it right.
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Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60
[Re: B G Racing]
#174210
12/25/08 06:29 PM
12/25/08 06:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Now, Bob, if we can get people to grasp that pinion angle has absolutely squat to do with traction and E/T, our job here would be finished!
Yea I can't beleve how many times I hear this..(well give it more pinion angle it will hook better) How in the heck did this ever get started is be on me ! Then I ask them how ? or why do you think that ? its alway well so and so told me..
and I tell them it is not true//They act like they are heatbroken..
Now we have got the youngens to understand working range and pinion angles we can move on to the effects.Any mis-alignment or out of range of working angles and acute angles at the pinion can cause binding and rob horsepower and cause a car to have bad launch characteristics,loss of ET and loss of mph.It's like dragging the brakes except more damage can occur.Excessive driveshaft movement can cause the tailshaft to break,excessive u-joint binding can cause u-joint failure.This mis-alignment is not just regulated to up and down but side to side ranges also. Jamie,you are correct,there is no tuning to be gained by adjusting pinion angle,it needs to correctly established as your final adjustment to your suspension set up.The guidelines are set.If you gain anything from adjusting the pinion angle it is because you didn't have it right in the first place.
thats what I said but with out all of the drama
Yeah,now that us old timers explained to you the difference between working angles and pinion angle.Maybe you youngsters will get it right.
we were getting it right all along it just took a pic for you to understand next time we will just get the crayons out so you can learn faster
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Re: Measuring pinion angle for Dana 60
[Re: Quicktree]
#174211
12/25/08 06:42 PM
12/25/08 06:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Now, Bob, if we can get people to grasp that pinion angle has absolutely squat to do with traction and E/T, our job here would be finished!
Yea I can't beleve how many times I hear this..(well give it more pinion angle it will hook better) How in the heck did this ever get started is be on me ! Then I ask them how ? or why do you think that ? its alway well so and so told me..
and I tell them it is not true//They act like they are heatbroken..
Now we have got the youngens to understand working range and pinion angles we can move on to the effects.Any mis-alignment or out of range of working angles and acute angles at the pinion can cause binding and rob horsepower and cause a car to have bad launch characteristics,loss of ET and loss of mph.It's like dragging the brakes except more damage can occur.Excessive driveshaft movement can cause the tailshaft to break,excessive u-joint binding can cause u-joint failure.This mis-alignment is not just regulated to up and down but side to side ranges also. Jamie,you are correct,there is no tuning to be gained by adjusting pinion angle,it needs to correctly established as your final adjustment to your suspension set up.The guidelines are set.If you gain anything from adjusting the pinion angle it is because you didn't have it right in the first place.
thats what I said but with out all of the drama
Yeah,now that us old timers explained to you the difference between working angles and pinion angle.Maybe you youngsters will get it right.
we were getting it right all along it just took a pic for you to understand next time we will just get the crayons out so you can learn faster
I know it must be hard for you to admit your wrong buy the facts that you present but I'am sure you'll get over it.Call it,experience,maturity,or old age.You'll get there some day. Read the top of the page(calculating working angles)
Last edited by B G Racing; 12/25/08 07:16 PM.
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