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Re: Positive vs. negative piston deck height [Re: Plumcrazyracing] #173201
12/26/08 10:02 AM
12/26/08 10:02 AM
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Posts: 8,162
USA
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360view Offline
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it is worth pondering the
"crevice volume"
effect

crevice volume is generally thought to be a bad thing
because it 'quenches' the flame and creates unburned hydrocarbons ... which reduces both power and fuel economy

there is crevice volume in the little gaps of the head gasket joint

there is crevice volume in the 'ring land' from the top of the first ring to the piston crown

could the undesired two crevice volumes
be combined
to eliminate a bit of both?

some engine builders try to do this
by having the piston come above the deck
enough to cover the head gasket joint
during the peak of the combustion event

it is an approach that might gain a bit of
power and fuel economy

in one of the last 'Engine Masters' competitions one of the top engines had a very large value for positive deck and this may have been one of his strategies

there is also a small effect in being able to use a tiny bit longer connecting rod

it is worth thinking about

another small detail

"The Devil is in the Details"

Re: Positive vs. negative piston deck height [Re: mopacltd] #173202
12/27/08 11:00 PM
12/27/08 11:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
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patrick  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
Quote:

I have read that a .055 piston to head clearance is the minimum you should have. Is this not true?




maybe with aluminum rods...but with tradtional rods, ~.040 is ideal, if you're very precise on measurements and keep the RPM's down you may be able to go as tight at .030"


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: Positive vs. negative piston deck height [Re: patrick] #173203
12/28/08 12:29 AM
12/28/08 12:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
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goldmember Offline
master
goldmember  Offline
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Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
Alot of good points,most don't add up to 2 hp,but good points. Most post what they read or internet info.Keep it safe and don't try to get it too tight.

Last edited by goldmember; 12/28/08 12:30 AM.
Re: Positive vs. negative piston deck height [Re: 360view] #173204
12/28/08 01:39 AM
12/28/08 01:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
S
Sport440 Offline
master
Sport440  Offline
master
S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Quote:

it is worth pondering the
"crevice volume"
effect

crevice volume is generally thought to be a bad thing
because it 'quenches' the flame and creates unburned hydrocarbons ... which reduces both power and fuel economy

there is crevice volume in the little gaps of the head gasket joint

there is crevice volume in the 'ring land' from the top of the first ring to the piston crown

could the undesired two crevice volumes
be combined
to eliminate a bit of both?

some engine builders try to do this
by having the piston come above the deck
enough to cover the head gasket joint
during the peak of the combustion event

it is an approach that might gain a bit of
power and fuel economy

in one of the last 'Engine Masters' competitions one of the top engines had a very large value for positive deck and this may have been one of his strategies

there is also a small effect in being able to use a tiny bit longer connecting rod

it is worth thinking about

another small detail

"The Devil is in the Details"




I like that idea as you described it.mike

Re: Positive vs. negative piston deck height [Re: Sport440] #173205
12/30/08 12:23 PM
12/30/08 12:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
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360view Offline
Moparts resident spammer
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USA
an article on crevice volume

http://www.gofastnews.com/board/technica...ower-thief.html

for the hard core engine nuts

Re: Positive vs. negative piston deck height [Re: 360view] #173206
12/30/08 01:26 PM
12/30/08 01:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
maximum entropy Offline
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organ
Quote:

an article on crevice volume

http://www.gofastnews.com/board/technica...ower-thief.html

for the hard core engine nuts


good article-thanks!


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: Positive vs. negative piston deck height [Re: 360view] #173207
12/30/08 11:12 PM
12/30/08 11:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
S
Sport440 Offline
master
Sport440  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Quote:

an article on crevice volume

http://www.gofastnews.com/board/technica...ower-thief.html

for the hard core engine nuts





Thanks, Ive never seen a article from David Vizard that I couldnt make good logical sense out of.
mike

Last edited by Sport440; 12/30/08 11:16 PM.
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