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Re: Drum brakes weak
[Re: JohnRR]
#1726481
01/12/15 03:54 AM
01/12/15 03:54 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 377
Riverside, California
ghostrider
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 377
Riverside, California
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Quote:
Seriously you should upgrade at least the fronts to discs , the drum brakes never worked that great even when they were new .
HUH! The big drum brakes worked great when new, beat the disc in stopping distance and if adjusted properly would do it in a nearly straight line. The disc were better at a straight line stop but the rears could still kick it around and get it squirrelly if you really pushed it. The big advantage to disc brakes has always been their ability to resist fade with repeated stops because they cool more rapidly, drums would heat up and take a longer distance to stop with quick repeat stops.
I'm not talking about the little drums or even the 10 inch front drums but the muscle cars came with the 11 inch front drums in the late 60's.
If his brakes won't hold the car in place then he needs to look at too much pedal travel, too much shoe travel, or not enough pressure like from a bulging brake hose. 
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Re: Drum brakes weak
[Re: jst19600]
#1726483
03/09/15 05:23 PM
03/09/15 05:23 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,100
Western Md.
skicker
"The Champ"
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"The Champ"
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,100
Western Md.
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If you haven't replaced any hoses I would look there next. Especially the rear one as it holds fluid for both rear wheel brakes. They swell on the inside and restrict any volume from reaching the wheel cylinders.  Adjustment is key to keeping drum brakes working well. On the rear of mine I usually set the LR until it will hardly spin by hand and then set the RR creeping up on it till I can hardly turn the wheel.
...FAFO...
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Re: Drum brakes weak
[Re: jst19600]
#1726485
03/10/15 12:28 AM
03/10/15 12:28 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Man after all this I think I'd get one of these & a fitting or two & see exactly what I am getting at the corners. I'm thinking partial blockage (is a bit rare tho) unless a main line had been hit/partly crimped plus th ehoses being new or inadequate MC but didn't you say it was new. Post how it turns out
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Drum brakes weak
[Re: jst19600]
#1726487
03/10/15 03:16 AM
03/10/15 03:16 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,653
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,653
Cut and Shoot, TX
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If drum brakes are not re-centered during adjustment, they are not properly adjusted. "...gradually move the adjuster until you have a good deal of friction on the wheel, but it is still able to turn with some effort. The next step is very important. Either with a helper in the car or by doing it yourself, hit the brake pedal hard a few times. This will re-center the shoes and you will find that a good deal of the friction will be eliminated. Re-adjust the shoes until you achieve slightly less friction than the last time. Re-apply the brake a few times. When the shoes are adjusted properly, the friction against the wheel will not be altered after the brake pedal is (hit hard and re-centered). The adjustment is correct when the shoes rub lightly against the drum..." From: http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2006/10/01/hmn_q_and_a1.html
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Drum brakes weak
[Re: kentj340]
#1726488
03/10/15 10:17 AM
03/10/15 10:17 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,509
AZ
Mike P
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,509
AZ
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Mattax hit on this and it should probably be expanded a bit.
“….If you do resurface on a machine, then the shoes ought to be arced to match…..”
When new brake shoes are installed, especially on drums that are worn or previously turned, the arc of the shoes is smaller than the arc of the drum. This results in a just a small contact patch between the drum and shoe until the material wears into the arc of the drum. Back when 4 wheel drum brakes were the norm it was not uncommon to hear complaints about poor stopping after a brake job until the car was driven for a few hundred miles.
1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10) Sold
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56) Sold
1968 Plymouth Valiant 2dr sedan (354 HEMI, 46RH w/4.30 gears)
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Re: Drum brakes weak
[Re: JohnH]
#1726492
03/10/15 07:50 PM
03/10/15 07:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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Wow, sounds like adjusting the arc of the shoes is a real dark science. It's not. Take your drum and put a shoe inside it. If the shoe touches in the middle but not on the ends, put it on a flat surface lining side up and hit it in the middle with a dead blow hammer. Check. Repeat until the shoe contacts the drum all the way. If the shoe touches at the ends but not the middle, turn the shoe so it's vertical, then hit on the end. Check. Repeat as necessary. It's easier than rebuilding a carburetor, only slightly harder than changing a tire. R. http://brakeperformance.com/index.php?ad=google&gclid=CLOSs9nF2rgCFS9dQgodziMAjw
Last edited by dogdays; 03/10/15 07:59 PM.
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Re: Drum brakes weak
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1726495
03/11/15 02:52 AM
03/11/15 02:52 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,198
Someplace you aren't
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Any local car guys that might give you another set of eyes? Drums work great for general use and this is totally solvable. Don't get discouraged.
I want my fair share
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Re: Drum brakes weak
[Re: dogdays]
#1726496
03/12/15 12:41 AM
03/12/15 12:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,269
Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,269
Omaha Ne
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Quote:
Wow, sounds like adjusting the arc of the shoes is a real dark science. It's not.
Take your drum and put a shoe inside it. If the shoe touches in the middle but not on the ends, put it on a flat surface lining side up and hit it in the middle with a dead blow hammer. Check. Repeat until the shoe contacts the drum all the way. If the shoe touches at the ends but not the middle, turn the shoe so it's vertical, then hit on the end. Check. Repeat as necessary.
R.
http://brakeperformance.com/index.php?ad=google&gclid=CLOSs9nF2rgCFS9dQgodziMAjw
I agree to a point, back in the day, when the drums were turned, the shoes were arced to the drums with a now obsolete machine, ( which I have two of  ) OK fast forward 30 or so years and the material used on the linings has been superseded,( IE: improved, NOT!!) several times by cost cutting / substituting materials that work for MOST of the POPULAR applications.
A 4 wheel drum brake car from the 60's does not fit into the category of MOST POPULAR Applications for the suppliers.
The superseding of the material, losing 5 or 10% effectiveness at each revision of which there have been several) now results in a hard pedal with no effect due to , THE material being used (less effective), and the linings not having full contact with the drum
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Re: Drum brakes weak
[Re: jst19600]
#1726498
03/26/15 02:44 AM
03/26/15 02:44 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Hello John, I'm glad you checked back in.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Drum brakes weak
[Re: TJP]
#1726499
03/26/15 03:10 AM
03/26/15 03:10 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
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Quote:
Quote:
Wow, sounds like adjusting the arc of the shoes is a real dark science. It's not.
Take your drum and put a shoe inside it. If the shoe touches in the middle but not on the ends, put it on a flat surface lining side up and hit it in the middle with a dead blow hammer. Check. Repeat until the shoe contacts the drum all the way. If the shoe touches at the ends but not the middle, turn the shoe so it's vertical, then hit on the end. Check. Repeat as necessary.
R.
http://brakeperformance.com/index.php?ad=google&gclid=CLOSs9nF2rgCFS9dQgodziMAjw
I agree to a point, back in the day, when the drums were turned, the shoes were arced to the drums with a now obsolete machine, ( which I have two of ) OK fast forward 30 or so years and the material used on the linings has been superseded,( IE: improved, NOT!!) several times by cost cutting / substituting materials that work for MOST of the POPULAR applications.
A 4 wheel drum brake car from the 60's does not fit into the category of MOST POPULAR Applications for the suppliers.
The superseding of the material, losing 5 or 10% effectiveness at each revision of which there have been several) now results in a hard pedal with no effect due to , THE material being used (less effective), and the linings not having full contact with the drum
Like everything else, asbestos was once the magic ingredient.
Drums get a bad rap all the time, but 11 inch Chrysler drums stop pretty well IMO. No its not a modern sports car, but they're ok. 10 inch on the other hand are pretty bad on a B body.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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