Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: Cudajon]
#1702046
11/22/14 11:25 PM
11/22/14 11:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,648 Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA
Fluffy Balladeer
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Fluffy Balladeer
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,648
Hamtramck, PA
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Quote:
reluctant to give them a tranny.
Transvestites are people too, so they should neither be sold or given away.
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Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: mopar346]
#1702055
11/23/14 02:15 PM
11/23/14 02:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,651 Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,651
Wichita
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Quote:
Quote:
Sounds like a 518 to me, maybe they just do the bell housing mod for you?
Yep, from what I understand they cut a 727 bell off and graft it to a 518 case. Thought about doing it locally but looking for input.
Ultrabell bellhousing.
It still doesn't solve the problem of the girth of the 518 interfering with the floorpan and torsion bar crossmember...
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Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: rustbuckett68]
#1702057
11/23/14 06:29 PM
11/23/14 06:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886 Lost and Spaced
bboogieart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886
Lost and Spaced
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Can you really get 25 to 30 percent better gas mileage?
I have mechanical Aptitude. I can screw up anything.
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Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: GLR]
#1702061
11/23/14 08:36 PM
11/23/14 08:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836 Florida
mopar346
OP
Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
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OP
Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
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Florida
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If the tortion bar mount has to be modified then it's a no go for me. Oh well, just hoping that's all.
Thanks for the info.
Frankenduster, And yea, 10 might be a little hopeful on an increase from a lock up. I wonder what improvement you would have seen if you stayed with the 3.23s?
Careful, your character's showing!
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Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: mopar346]
#1702065
11/24/14 02:54 AM
11/24/14 02:54 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
Striving for excellence
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Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
Frankenduster, And yea, 10 might be a little hopeful on an increase from a lock up. I wonder what improvement you would have seen if you stayed with the 3.23s?
That takes the discussion in another direction. I see that some engines may not get better mileage simply because they are revving less. This can be the case with aggressive camshafts where the engine is less efficient at lower RPMs. A stock engine with mild camshaft timing ? Sure. If I decide to go with an overdrive in the future, I may choose to build a 518. My car is a keeper so any changes I make would not be skewed by thoughts of resale value.
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Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: BDW]
#1702067
11/24/14 02:30 PM
11/24/14 02:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582 Rust Belt, SW PA
Silver70
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,582
Rust Belt, SW PA
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No cutting for E or B bodies, just finished my install, amazing difference.
Good read here, get the LU
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=84774.msg847873#msg847873
In 71-74 b-bodies, early ones the crossmember is located a few inches forward and it's makes a nite and day difference... the center of the torsion bar crossmember needs cut out basically to the floor pan.
When I went to do the swap, I missed that part, thinking it'd be easy like going in an e-body from readings links on cc.com
68 Road Runner, 69 Belvedere, 71 Challenger Vert 340 barracuda, 01 Ram CTD, 95 Ram, 04 Ram, 85 Daytona turbo Z 66 GTO, 06 Magnum RT AWD. 07 Ram CTD, 07 Ram
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Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: Silver70]
#1702068
11/26/14 01:38 AM
11/26/14 01:38 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836 Florida
mopar346
OP
Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
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OP
Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836
Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
No cutting for E or B bodies, just finished my install, amazing difference.
Good read here, get the LU
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=84774.msg847873#msg847873
In 71-74 b-bodies, early ones the crossmember is located a few inches forward and it's makes a nite and day difference... the center of the torsion bar crossmember needs cut out basically to the floor pan.
When I went to do the swap, I missed that part, thinking it'd be easy like going in an e-body from readings links on cc.com
This is good information, my thoughts are for my 71 BB Charger 500. I'll read the CC thread but if I understand ya'll correctly it will work without cutting.
The cores they request are actually 2 cores, a 518 and a BB7 27, they graft the 727 bell onto the 518. Everything else is 518, some wiring required for the electronics.
Careful, your character's showing!
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Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1702070
11/26/14 12:19 PM
11/26/14 12:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,894 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,894
Benton, IL.
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I talked to PTC about converters for this swap. They indicated that there were fewer converter possibilities with the lock up. May not matter to your particular application, but it might be a good idea to check BEFORE pulling the trigger on a lock up tranny if you were going that way.
Master, again and still
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Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1702073
11/26/14 11:10 PM
11/26/14 11:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836 Florida
mopar346
OP
Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
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OP
Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
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Posts: 11,836
Florida
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I like the idea of keeping it all Chrysler but the 200 would be cheaper to build that's for sure, maybe not depending on the power it will hold. I have considered swapping it to a 833 O/D but not really wanting a standard in this one.
Careful, your character's showing!
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Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: GY3]
#1702077
11/28/14 01:16 AM
11/28/14 01:16 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Guys with modded 6 cylinder turbo Buicks have problems getting the 200 to live so the torque of a BB Mopar is only going to make it worse! Once a friend made enough power in his T-type to run 10.80, he couldn't get the trans. to stay together.
Guys have been saying that for years about the 518's too. How many of us are running 10 second street cars?
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Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: gdonovan]
#1702079
11/28/14 04:44 PM
11/28/14 04:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 667 Los Osos, Ca
CKessel
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 667
Los Osos, Ca
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The 518/618 units get run behind heavily modified truck that weigh upwards of 8k lbs putting out over 600hp and 1500ftlbs tq. The trans does need to be upgraded of course to take it. There are specialty converters running up to 4 disc lock up clutches in them to put up with this abuse. Of course they are expensive too. Another way to go would be to get a donor trans from a 93 back diesel or early production v8 from like 89. They did not run a lock up converter.
Carl Kessel
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Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: gdonovan]
#1702080
11/28/14 07:55 PM
11/28/14 07:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Guys have been saying that for years about the 518's too. How many of us are running 10 second street cars?
Which I never understood considering its just a 727 with an overdrive slapped on. One which will take the torque of a Cummings diesel.
And anyone who's owned one knows the ones even on stock unmodified Cummins are not known for their longevity. Not saying the 518s are bad, but they're not the holy grail either.
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Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1702081
11/28/14 10:51 PM
11/28/14 10:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,894 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,894
Benton, IL.
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I don't know of a more durable tranny than a well built 727 for most of what we all do. So, as far as the first 3 gears, a 518 would be as tough as any comparably built 727.
Now I don't know the limits of a lock-up converter or the OD section, but do those really need to hold all of our power in normal driving?
I plan to use a non lock-up 518 in the Cuda next year. The main body will be built just like the 727 in there now which has proven to be nearly indestructible. The OD will be beefed up, but I do not plan to ask it to hold all of power the engine is capable of making.
Master, again and still
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Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1702083
11/28/14 10:56 PM
11/28/14 10:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
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Quote:
And anyone who's owned one knows the ones even on stock unmodified Cummins are not known for their longevity. Not saying the 518s are bad, but they're not the holy grail either.
I'll strongly disagree with you on that.
The failures started happening when the lock up converters were used. The clutches in those converters would disintegrate. The trash would get into the system and the overdrive fluid passages would be the first to get plugged. The failure wasn't in the transmission. It was in the converter.
Do these bits look like they have over 270,000 miles on them?
Last edited by feets; 11/28/14 10:58 PM.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: DaveRS23]
#1702084
11/29/14 11:39 AM
11/29/14 11:39 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
I don't know of a more durable tranny than a well built 727 for most of what we all do. So, as far as the first 3 gears, a 518 would be as tough as any comparably built 727.
Now I don't know the limits of a lock-up converter or the OD section, but do those really need to hold all of our power in normal driving?
I plan to use a non lock-up 518 in the Cuda next year. The main body will be built just like the 727 in there now which has proven to be nearly indestructible. The OD will be beefed up, but I do not plan to ask it to hold all of power the engine is capable of making.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that ALL engine power is transmitted through the OD clutch pack, whether OD is engaged or not.
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Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: feets]
#1702085
11/29/14 11:41 AM
11/29/14 11:41 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
And anyone who's owned one knows the ones even on stock unmodified Cummins are not known for their longevity. Not saying the 518s are bad, but they're not the holy grail either.
I'll strongly disagree with you on that.
The failures started happening when the lock up converters were used. The clutches in those converters would disintegrate. The trash would get into the system and the overdrive fluid passages would be the first to get plugged. The failure wasn't in the transmission. It was in the converter.
Do these bits look like they have over 270,000 miles on them?
I can't attest to that, having never owned and earlier year model. However when looking at the later year ones, especially once the 24v came out and they started making a little more power, finding one with a trans that was not already on it's way out was a tough task. Best you could ask for is one that already had the trans done. And even then I don't recall anyone doing converters.
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Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1702086
11/29/14 05:00 PM
11/29/14 05:00 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,681 Florida
BDW
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,681
Florida
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I sure hope it holds up, I'm not too hard on my rides. Took mine out for the initial test drive, a few bugs to work out, but it is awesome. Only 2800 rpm at 75mph, and no vibrations which was a concern. Now I can keep up with the rice burners on I-95 without rattling my teeth. Here's a shot at 60mph, only 1800rpm and I have 3.73 gears. Glad I got the LU converter, I can definitely feel it drop a few RPMs when it kicks on, it's like having a 4.5spd auto.
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Re: Finally a BB automatic overdrive tranny!
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1702087
11/29/14 06:52 PM
11/29/14 06:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
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Quote:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that ALL engine power is transmitted through the OD clutch pack, whether OD is engaged or not.
That is incorrect.
There are two clutch backs inside the OD housing. One for direct and one for OD. The direct pack is inside the hub and has pressure applied by an 800 lb spring. The OD clutches surround the hub.
The second photo I posted shows the two sets of clutches in the OD housing.
Here's a shot of all four sets out of my 270,000 mile D250.
Last edited by feets; 11/29/14 06:56 PM.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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