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Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: 5thAve] #1701978 12/07/14 05:17 PM 12/07/14 05:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2012 Posts: 113 s.e. MI O odcics2 member
odcics2 member O Joined: Mar 2012 Posts: 113 s.e. MI	Honest 27.2 best ever in a 68 charger , 318, 727, 2.71 in the summer warned up to Indy and back from MoTown. A very steady 55mph back in 1975. Had the spark bumped up 2 degrees, accel. pump backed off a notch. Cold air tube to the hole by the battery in the rad support. All else was stock. G-60-14 GoodYear Rally GT tires on Ansens.

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: odcics2] #1701979 12/07/14 09:56 PM 12/07/14 09:56 PM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2,046 ky. K kenworth_goose top fuel
kenworth_goose top fuel K Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2,046 ky.	I really don't care what the digital reading says, I have calculated by filling the tank. It comes out really close either way.

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: kenworth_goose] #1701980 12/08/14 03:57 PM 12/08/14 03:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	He is hypermiling it guys. Cruising any vehicle at 55 mph on flat road is gonna get great MPG and I don't doubt with a few mods his ram could get 25 driving that slow. Course he is gonna get the finger, lights flashed at him, horns blown... if he was claiming that much at 70+ MPH I would be calling bologna also but 55 I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: HotRodDave] #1701981 12/08/14 04:01 PM 12/08/14 04:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	I had to do some pretty major mods to get my 2wd 318 ex cab ram to get over 20 mpg @75 mph. Very tall narrow tires, zero deck the block .039 head gaskets, ford 4.6 injectors, advance crank sensor, electric fan, 205 t-stat... of course at 55 it would easily get 25 mpg. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: HotRodDave] #1701982 12/08/14 04:21 PM 12/08/14 04:21 PM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2,046 ky. K kenworth_goose top fuel
kenworth_goose top fuel K Joined: May 2006 Posts: 2,046 ky.	It does do mid 20's at 55 with ease. Of course it has a few things that weren't factory, have to do something to wake these pigs up cause the dealerships took all the power out of them. Now if I want to drive 70-75 it will do 19 but never 25 at that speed. And city driving is even lower!

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: HotRodDave] #1701983 12/10/14 11:18 AM 12/10/14 11:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes... Pale_Roader Swears too much
Pale_Roader Swears too much Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes...	Quote: And about gear ratios, I have not really found a low ratio to help any in town. I used to think it would but none of my testing on many different vehicles showed they got better MPG with a low ratio in town. It might for a slant six, but even a bone stock 360 will have enough grunt to move pretty much any car. No matter what the engine is... a low rearend gear will always be climbing the tach. There is NO way around that, without driving like a goof anyways. My stock 78 4dr Volare had a factory 360 and that thing got nearly the MPG my 96 Mustang GT (4.6mod, 5-speed) did. It was more than fast enough to play a bit, had a surprising top end (130mph before the engine couldn't push any more gear) and it got crazy MPG. I was lazy with the calculating, but it was in the 20's. I'm not an idiot when i drive, i am exceedingly skilled at hypermiling, but i never drive slow. The 2.45 rear gear had a LOT to do with all this. It was so all-around useful and efficient i wish i could get a 2.45 gear for my Challenger's 8 3/4". That Volare accelerated just fine too. Take what i had, put it in my 700lbs lighter Challenger, clean up the heads, add a modern intake, add a real headers/exhaust (that stock single with cat was a complete joke, making it even more impressive), better ignition, all the cheap tricks and it would kill that Volare in efficiency. If i threw an 8 1/4" with 2.45 in it too anyways. Do all that, but to a Magnum 360... better compression, less internal friction, way better heads, RPM intake and carb, roller cam... I bet you could get some pretty impressive MPG yet, more than we've seen so far anyways. Find a way to jam a 5-speed in there too... yummy. This is where i'm going with my car. Just haven't quite decided on the details yet.

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: kenworth_goose] #1701984 12/10/14 09:55 PM 12/10/14 09:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 8,162 USA 3 360view Moparts resident spammer
360view Moparts resident spammer 3 Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 8,162 USA	On a Ram I found some success at improving the "wake" at the rear of the vehicle with "wheeler vortex generators" at the rear sides of the cab, and on the rear sides of the bed just in front of the brake light housings. I got started with Wheeler Vortex Generators by buying a kit that attached big WVG to the rear of the roof top with a large magnetic strip, but found no measureable improvement that way. I also found easy improvements at the front by bloocking off airflow at the grille, and extending the front factory air dam down two more inches with $7 worth of lawn edging plastic. You can get up to 3 MPG improvement at 70 MPH with quite cheap aero tweaks. You can get 1 MPG at 70 mph with a 3.21 diff instead of 3.55 Tires vary a lot in rolling resistance new, and even more so as the tread wears down, so between best and worst tires there might be as much plus or minus 2 MPG from the factory tires. Many of the tweaks i tried on a 1995 Ram are factory standard on model year 2014 Rams. The only thing unusual about a 360 V8s are the bigger diameter crank bearings, which might raise friction perhaps 0.25 MPG But these large diameter bearings "might" tolerate lower viscosity oil than smaller diameter bearing engines, especially at low rpms.

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: 360view] #1701985 12/11/14 11:16 AM 12/11/14 11:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes... Pale_Roader Swears too much
Pale_Roader Swears too much Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes...	Quote: Tires vary a lot in rolling resistance new, and even more so as the tread wears down, so between best and worst tires there might be as much plus or minus 2 MPG from the factory tires. Tires can vary a LOT. On my 96GT Mustang i've had a few different tires over the years. When i first got it i had these old BFG Comp T/A's... probably one ov the first Z-rated to really attack the aftermarket. Threw them on and holy [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean]... they were LOUD. Remarkably loud. After a few months i found some newer tires, swapped 'em and noticed immediately how quiet the car was, and also how much further the thing would coast once off the gas in neutral. Rolling resistance has always been in the back ov my mind, but this clearly illustrated how huge this can be. That was switching to some other super HP Z-rated summer tire too. There are 'high mpg' tires out there that i'm sure would be the same difference between my best tires and them. They'd handle like garbage, but i bet that car'd roll forever.

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1701986 12/11/14 03:12 PM 12/11/14 03:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 8,162 USA 3 360view Moparts resident spammer
360view Moparts resident spammer 3 Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 8,162 USA	I have wondered if a Hunter 9600 Tire Balancing center could be programmed to approximately determine tire rolling resistance using the 800 lb "road load" feature? You can determine both coefficient of aerodynamic drag and tire rolling resistance by coasting down a hill of steady and even percent grade, first at light vehicle weight, then a second time near gross vehicle weight rating. As far as I know no one has ever tested how well a 360 V8 responds to static compression ratio changes. The iron Magnum cylinder heads are about 62 to 65 cc "real world" and the specs on the Aluminum Magnum Mopar Performance cylinder heads are 52 to 55 cc, and maybe could be milled down 20 to 30 thousandths. Doing a three way MPG test where two Rams or Dakotas ran a "convoy style" highway fuel economy test with 62 cc iron Magnum heads, then had one of the vehicles modified to 52 cc AL heads, then finally "ground out" enlarged chamber 75 cc iron Magnum cyl heads would be interesting. I would guess 4% changes.

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: 360view] #1701987 12/11/14 06:09 PM 12/11/14 06:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	I zero decked a 98 318 magnum and used .039 head gaskets and got an solid 2 mpg improvement around 75mph. It helped a tad at low speed but the biggest gains were high speeds. I re-used the rings and bearings, cam... every thing the same before and after. Both had no fan. I added 20 inch wheels and tires that were about 10% taller then the 16s I had on before and got another 1 MPG at 75mph. I sold the truck to my dad who drives super slow to save gas and he said he had to speed up to get good mpg from it. At 60 mph on the highway he said it don't do any better than 80mph. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: HotRodDave] #1701988 12/11/14 06:11 PM 12/11/14 06:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	My test of tire rolling resistance is to see how hard it is to push around the shop by myself. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: HotRodDave] #1701989 12/12/14 12:08 PM 12/12/14 12:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes... Pale_Roader Swears too much
Pale_Roader Swears too much Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes...	Quote: I zero decked a 98 318 magnum and used .039 head gaskets and got an solid 2 mpg improvement around 75mph. It helped a tad at low speed but the biggest gains were high speeds. I re-used the rings and bearings, cam... every thing the same before and after. Both had no fan. I added 20 inch wheels and tires that were about 10% taller then the 16s I had on before and got another 1 MPG at 75mph. I sold the truck to my dad who drives super slow to save gas and he said he had to speed up to get good mpg from it. At 60 mph on the highway he said it don't do any better than 80mph. So basically... you overhauled it, JUST to change the quench? How come every time i suggest that i just get weird looks...??? Its too bad all this Magnum talk is largely limited to big ridiculously heavy trucks. I'd love to have a nice big database ov what these engines do in lighter cars (like we have with old 318's and 360's, and 340's).

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: HotRodDave] #1701990 12/12/14 03:08 PM 12/12/14 03:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 8,162 USA 3 360view Moparts resident spammer
360view Moparts resident spammer 3 Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 8,162 USA	Pushing a vehicle around the shop can be almost scientific if you take a bathroom scale and press with it against the vehicle bumper. Get a vehicle moving first, then read on the bathroom scale how many pounds force it takes to move steadily. If it takes 50 lbs to keep a 5000 lb vehicle in steady speed movement, those tires have 1% rolling resistance. The best new low RR tires claim about 0.7% with new deep tread. Thats about 39 lbs for a 5500 lb Ram. I think i will go out and whip together a custom wheelbarrow that uses a Ram 5 on 5.5 wheel in the front, and has a "trapped" digital bathroom scale pressed on by the handlebars. Would the tire store employees call the police if i wheeled that contraption into their store, and asked for fittings?

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1701991 12/12/14 04:33 PM 12/12/14 04:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	Quote: Quote: I zero decked a 98 318 magnum and used .039 head gaskets and got an solid 2 mpg improvement around 75mph. It helped a tad at low speed but the biggest gains were high speeds. I re-used the rings and bearings, cam... every thing the same before and after. Both had no fan. I added 20 inch wheels and tires that were about 10% taller then the 16s I had on before and got another 1 MPG at 75mph. I sold the truck to my dad who drives super slow to save gas and he said he had to speed up to get good mpg from it. At 60 mph on the highway he said it don't do any better than 80mph. So basically... you overhauled it, JUST to change the quench? How come every time i suggest that i just get weird looks...??? Its too bad all this Magnum talk is largely limited to big ridiculously heavy trucks. I'd love to have a nice big database ov what these engines do in lighter cars (like we have with old 318's and 360's, and 340's). I always wondered what would happen Right now I am building a dakota R/T and thinking maybe I will build a tight quench 5.9 with throwing a bunch of my tricks at it with a 2.94 gear and see what I get. It would be about 2.02 final drive ratio with the a-500 in there, I bet I could get 30mpg with enough of my tricks and some of 360views aero tricks. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: HotRodDave] #1701992 12/13/14 07:05 PM 12/13/14 07:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 792 Earth R Rob C super stock
Rob C super stock R Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 792 Earth	HRDave, with all the little tricks it can take, I'd like to see a build thread myself with a final report card! What coatings you use and etc.....

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: HotRodDave] #1701993 12/14/14 11:03 AM 12/14/14 11:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 8,162 USA 3 360view Moparts resident spammer
360view Moparts resident spammer 3 Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 8,162 USA	Has a Magnum 360 V8 ever been bult with sodium filled exhaust valves? Tight Quench is to improve dynamic compression ratio, and sodium filled exhaust valves are supposed to be good for about +1 Mazda has now proven that 13 to 1 compression is possible with 87 AKI regular, which is actually closer to 85 But if you are building a Dakota for MPG it is hard to arguing for using a 360 when dual plug 5.7 Hemis with their 27 inch long intake runners are available for just a little more money. With an air/fuel ratio of 24 and a static compression of 13 manual transmission, 2.76 diff some aero tweaks a custom 5.7 Dakota might get better than 30 MPG at 70 mph It would probably meet the CO and HC pollution levels and miss NOx by only a little

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: 360view] #1701994 12/15/14 02:44 AM 12/15/14 02:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	Quote: Mazda has now proven that 13 to 1 compression is possible with 87 AKI regular, which is actually closer to 85 Yes but difficult to replicate in an engine without direct injection like mazda uses. Quote: But if you are building a Dakota for MPG it is hard to arguing for using a 360 when dual plug 5.7 Hemis with their 27 inch long intake runners are available for just a little more money. Perhaps not an issue in your area, but around here good running 5.7's are still going for 3x the cost of a comparable 5.9. Not to mention dealing with the 5.7's ignition system in a swap is not a simple or cheap affair where the 5.9 will take any old SB distributor. The Hemi is superior, if you can bank roll it. Sometimes in a budget project, a guy just can't justify it.

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: 360view] #1701995 12/15/14 03:26 PM 12/15/14 03:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	I have everything to do the 5.9, thats the only reason I can even consider doing it, otherwise I am going straight to the 410 stroker I have been piecing together. I have KB107 4.030 pistons, the truck has long tube headers dual exhaust with an x pipe. It is 2 inches lower than a normal dakota R/T even. I have a set of narrower LRR tires. I can push it around the shop with one hand right now (currently has 392 stroked 318 magnum). I have lots of injectors I can play with. I went and looked I have 2.76 3.55 3.92 and 4.56 gears to pick from. I don't think you could go 13 to one without direct injection, they are injecting the fuel after it is too late to cause pre-ignition. I already built the a-500 to handle gobs of power so not converting to a manual that either don't fit or can't take the power (the 410 will still be the long term goal ) I can lean it out real good by putting in low flowing injectors and leaving the O2 unhooked so the confuser don't adjust the fuel trim Also I would think the NOX would be through the roof with HC going down real low. I will go break a ex valve in half and see if there is sodium in it I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: HotRodDave] #1701996 12/15/14 03:40 PM 12/15/14 03:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	No Magnum has ever been OEM with sodium filled exhaust valves. If you haven't paid $30 for an exhaust valve, you haven't had one either. R.

Re: Best gas mileage with 360? [Re: 360view] #1701997 12/16/14 06:43 AM 12/16/14 06:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes... Pale_Roader Swears too much
Pale_Roader Swears too much Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes...	Quote: But if you are building a Dakota for MPG it is hard to arguing for using a 360 when dual plug 5.7 Hemis with their 27 inch long intake runners are available for just a little more money. I REALLY wish people would quit with this fantasy. Better? Yes. Way yes. OBVIOUSLY. 'Just a little more money'...??? To someone with a heavy 6-figure income, and a shop with 4 hoists maybe. To me, and i'd wager more than a couple guys here, a few thousand dollars is not 'just a little more money'...

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