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Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: 1baddart] #1694183
11/05/14 06:12 PM
11/05/14 06:12 PM
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North Alabama
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Monte_Smith Offline
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Quote:

Good lord do I hope they come out with a good alternative for us bigger cube guys. Something to give indys or even b1s a run for their money!


Exactly......where is the NEW head that has at least as much or MORE potential than the B-1 PSO, is more user friendly and you can actually GET......I will take 2 sets right now.......LOL!!!

Monte

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: BradH] #1694184
11/05/14 06:14 PM
11/05/14 06:14 PM

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They make a head for the big cube guys--its called a Hemi

Isn't Trick Flow Summits house brand anyway?
So isn't this a Summit head?

Source has proven that the race to the bottom --NOT the top is the one with the big numbers on sales--at least back when they were $895 a pair

The guys that get back there with an aluminum head that will fit existing pistons/combos etc like the old Eddy/Sidewinder etc will be KING
Hey that is a good name for a $795 a pair head

Until then Sidewinders are Excellent quality and get my business--Marsh has been EXCELLENT in providing those heads fast as UPS can bring them and our shop is putting them in about every build we do --

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: ] #1694185
11/05/14 06:22 PM
11/05/14 06:22 PM
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North Alabama
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What does it matter that Summit owns Trick Flow???...........it is still two separate companies. We/Holley own several companies, Quick Fuel included, but a Quick Fuel carb is still a Quick Fuel carb. Same with Hooker, Earls, NOS, Weiand, etc.

Monte

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: Monte_Smith] #1694186
11/05/14 06:40 PM
11/05/14 06:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
BBR Offline OP
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From their FB page.


Quote:

Trick Flow Specialties: $1800-$1900 range assembled for the pair.




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Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: BBR] #1694187
11/05/14 07:00 PM
11/05/14 07:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,457
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline
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Brian,
have you any idea how these heads compare to the CNC Stealths ?
I think it is great there is a company stepping into the ring for Mopar , will maybe bring the others up a step with competition .
As said before the BB market is primarily 450-510ci making to 650ish HP .You do put your toe in the water at the shallow end first - then go deeper . Not jump in the deep end hoping for the best .

Tex


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Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: BradH] #1694188
11/05/14 07:43 PM
11/05/14 07:43 PM

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Quote:

Quote:

Do You Have, or have you had a set of these Heads ???



Any chance you're related to the late Senator Joseph McCarthy?




If the guy is saying:

"Unlike every single mopar head out there, these heads are a TRUE bolt on!
And they actually flow as advertised...and they have upgraded hardware."

Isn't it reasonable to ask if he actually has/had one of these heads, or is he just going by the promo materials ?

If someone is emphatically stating that they are a "TRUE bolt on deal", it would be nice to know if THEY have actually bolted them on anything !!
I was ready to buy Source heads, then I heard about the Sidewinders, and now these sound good.....just looking for first hand info.

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: ] #1694189
11/05/14 08:28 PM
11/05/14 08:28 PM
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Portage,michigan
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Do You Have, or have you had a set of these Heads ???



Any chance you're related to the late Senator Joseph McCarthy?




If the guy is saying:

"Unlike every single mopar head out there, these heads are a TRUE bolt on!
And they actually flow as advertised...and they have upgraded hardware."

Isn't it reasonable to ask if he actually has/had one of these heads, or is he just going by the promo materials ?

If someone is emphatically stating that they are a "TRUE bolt on deal", it would be nice to know if THEY have actually bolted them on anything !!
I was ready to buy Source heads, then I heard about the Sidewinders, and now these sound good.....just looking for first hand info.





My guess is that as Brian is a professional engine builder he wouldn't say they are a true bolt on unless he was positive they were.
I would trust his statement to be factual


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Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: BBR] #1694190
11/06/14 01:23 AM
11/06/14 01:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 506
Utah, USA
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1964superstock Offline
mopar
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More good close up photos here: http://www.hotrod.com/features/1411-tric...2014-sema-show/

Looks like winner to me, but nearly even with Modern CNC Edelbrock RPM head flow. I sure like that nice 21st century 78 cc combustion chamber. If they are priced right and truly ready to bolt on, they will be very tough to beat.

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: 1964superstock] #1694191
11/06/14 01:38 AM
11/06/14 01:38 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,545
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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If those chambers can get the burn rate down to where total timing is in the hi 20's you can say goodbye to cap walk and other assorted destructive forces.

That alone would be worth the price of admission.

Kevin

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: ] #1694192
11/06/14 01:43 AM
11/06/14 01:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Do You Have, or have you had a set of these Heads ???



Any chance you're related to the late Senator Joseph McCarthy?




If the guy is saying:

"Unlike every single mopar head out there, these heads are a TRUE bolt on!
And they actually flow as advertised...and they have upgraded hardware."

Isn't it reasonable to ask if he actually has/had one of these heads, or is he just going by the promo materials ?

If someone is emphatically stating that they are a "TRUE bolt on deal", it would be nice to know if THEY have actually bolted them on anything !!
I was ready to buy Source heads, then I heard about the Sidewinders, and now these sound good.....just looking for first hand info.




I think the expression " have to follow the chain of command " makes it obvious enough.
Command decisions are made a pay grade or two above the ground troops , as it were.
And to disobey them will have you standing tall before the man.
And that is no place to be.

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: Twostick] #1694193
11/06/14 02:18 AM
11/06/14 02:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,644
North Carolina
sasquatch Offline
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Interesting 1.78 Exhaust valve....
The one article said starting at 1800 bucks ok not bad on that front. The intake looks pretty nice although I do wish they could offer it in a 1 piece deal with the valley cover. Ok now to
They look alright to me. Not world beaters but I am pretty sure we (and a lot of other people) could blow the bottom end out of a stock block with them. What is not to like? Some of you guys need to go back to the days when McCandless ported 452s were as GOOD AS IT GOT and they cost almost as much as these 20 years ago. And if it cracked oh well. Now it seems like heads are coming out of the woodwork. GOOD. We can no longer be held hostage. Competition between the manufacturers will be good for everyone looking to buy heads of all kinds. What we need is BLOCKS. We can make any aluminum head on the market run over the crank.
We just shipped a 655 Indy wedge that made almost 1100 on pump gas. HOW much do you want? We (and others have many ways to build about anything you want) Write the check and you can have one to. All this talk about what is and is not a race head is nuts. How fast do you have to go to be called a race head? How much power does it have to make? Why not just bolt two big hair dryers on it or Call up Charlie Buck and spray the bearings out? All it takes is $$$$$.
Then we have our Mopar guys. Most of them are not wiping their bums with Ben Franklins. As someone who has sold more dang mopar heads than you could fit in a semi truck, I can tell you that $$$$ is ALWAYS the limiting factor for any engine build. Bang for the buck always matters.
I am happy to see another company throw their hat in the ring. I hope they do offer other parts. Hey some 500 cfm heads would be sweet if they cost under 10grand...so guys enjoy the show. I NEVER would have guessed 10 years ago even that we would have all these choices. ALL of these heads are filling in gaps and have markets. It may not be what you are looking for but the guys that buy them are funding the R/D that will pave the way for bigger and badder stuff to come.
Todd

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: Twostick] #1694194
11/06/14 02:25 AM
11/06/14 02:25 AM
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Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:

If those chambers can get the burn rate down to where total timing is in the hi 20's you can say goodbye to cap walk and other assorted destructive forces.

That alone would be worth the price of admission.

Kevin



Those chambers aren't that much different from other heart-shaped chambers that still end up with 34 - 36 degrees advance for best power. No magic there from what I see.

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: 1baddart] #1694195
11/06/14 04:49 AM
11/06/14 04:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 345
Nebraska
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451Cuda Offline
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Nebraska
Quote:

Good lord do I hope they come out with a good alternative for us bigger cube guys. Something to give indys or even b1s a run for their money!




I had been setting aside money for B1 MC's...may hold off and see what the race version looks like.

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: BradH] #1694196
11/06/14 10:04 AM
11/06/14 10:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,048
The Great White North
RAMM Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

If those chambers can get the burn rate down to where total timing is in the hi 20's you can say goodbye to cap walk and other assorted destructive forces.

That alone would be worth the price of admission.

Kevin



Those chambers aren't that much different from other heart-shaped chambers that still end up with 34 - 36 degrees advance for best power. No magic there from what I see.




I just looked at a closer shot of the chamber. The plug position looks drastically improved but the real plus here is the pressure recovery looks to be excellent with these. I would be willing to bet this is one of the primary reasons the flow rate at .400" and .500" is quite good. I have a customer that I will be nudging towards these. IF (and that's a BIG IF) they flow as advertised EVERYWHERE in the lift curve, these will be the best non rocker offset, replacement heads available to us-especially at the proposed price point.

Burn rate cannot be judged by looking at the chamber alone. You will need a wet flow bench and plenty of experience interpreting that data, and a host of other variables affect burn rate. If less timing is required then less negative torque will be produced below peak torque--which will show up as more torque. This has nothing to do with cap walk-unless you exceed the timing required and get into pre-ignition and detonation. J.Rob


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Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: RAMM] #1694197
11/06/14 10:07 AM
11/06/14 10:07 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,048
The Great White North
RAMM Offline
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Also the 1.78" exhaust size is a smart move IMO. No need for a big heavy 1.81" valve. J.Rob


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Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: GTS340] #1694198
11/06/14 11:19 AM
11/06/14 11:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 489
IL
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Quote:


Are you considering them an EZ based on the similar flow numbers? Having 240cc intake runners after being CNC machined they are still 30cc smaller than the as cast EZ. I wonder how the CSA compares to the EZ.




Someone else mentioned this but I'll add my 2 cents.

The EZ is designed for use as a MW size port. Which is fine, but if you're running a small engine not ideal. A better designed port makes more sense IMO than just port volume. Kinda like the Chapman Stage 6's, except without the incredible price. Yes, I know why they cost that much, but that has little to do with them being outside the budget of most everyone.

The smart head producers these days cast the heads with a ton of meat and then let the CNC tooling cut all the chambers/ports/etc. This gives far better results than trying to cast as-finished heads. For this reason alone, this is a better head than the other stuff on the market, where it's port volume makes sense.

I'm hoping they do a max wedge port, something like a -1 killer, that should go 400'ish at .700. And then a full boat head, going as tall as they can, the problem there is blocks. 4.900 bore space? Cool, but why not just run a BBF w/ a Thor head, since that's what you just built anyways?

The issue is, what's the market? A B-1 killer? What's the most you can get out of a 4.8 B/S design? What would be the purpose? For any outlaw/10.5/275/whatever stuff, why not just run a hemi with a turbo or screw? The fuel/alky guys have already done the work there. Rules? OK, if you're racing a rule book, you need to build to the rulebook. S/F.....Ken M

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: RAMM] #1694199
11/06/14 12:31 PM
11/06/14 12:31 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,545
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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Quote:



This has nothing to do with cap walk-unless you exceed the timing required and get into pre-ignition and detonation. J.Rob




I have a buddy in the R+D biz that has the technology to data log cylinder pressure in real time and his research shows that detonation is happening long before you can hear it or see it in power data on a dyno when using commonly accepted total advance #'s. The pressure spikes started as you approached 30 deg and got progressively higher as the timing curve advanced to total.

I draw a similar conclusion based on the fact that there are guys on here that run boosted stock block combos at almost double the power levels that seem to beat the mains out of a stock block NA combo and the only thing I see different other than the boost is the timing curve. Mid 20's max. Little to no cap walk.

It is no accident that modern chambers like the Gen III Hemi or the LS are all done timing wise in the low 20's or less.

Kevin

Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: Twostick] #1694200
11/06/14 12:54 PM
11/06/14 12:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,048
The Great White North
RAMM Offline
super stock
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Quote:

Quote:



This has nothing to do with cap walk-unless you exceed the timing required and get into pre-ignition and detonation. J.Rob




I have a buddy in the R+D biz that has the technology to data log cylinder pressure in real time and his research shows that detonation is happening long before you can hear it or see it in power data on a dyno when using commonly accepted total advance #'s. The pressure spikes started as you approached 30 deg and got progressively higher as the timing curve advanced to total.

I draw a similar conclusion based on the fact that there are guys on here that run boosted stock block combos at almost double the power levels that seem to beat the mains out of a stock block NA combo and the only thing I see different other than the boost is the timing curve. Mid 20's max. Little to no cap walk.

It is no accident that modern chambers like the Gen III Hemi or the LS are all done timing wise in the low 20's or less.

Kevin




We are saying pretty much the same thing. All you are saying is that total timing for max power is too much for longevity-in reality. I'm sure if we all had in cylinder pressure transducers we would find that we have been using too much timing all along. J.Rob


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Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: 1964superstock] #1694201
11/06/14 03:37 PM
11/06/14 03:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406
Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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That chamber will help timing requirements some but not drastically, mabey bring it down a couple degrees VS eddy, stealth, sidewinder, pro comp... Good chambers can make a big difference as was noted on the new Hemi and LS motors, even on the old small blocks you could bring the timing down a ton going from an X J or whatever open chamber to a magnum with a good tight quench.


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Re: Trick Flow introduces BBM heads [Re: RAMM] #1694202
11/06/14 03:44 PM
11/06/14 03:44 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,545
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
Still wishing...
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
That's why I don't understand why all these head mfg's insist on plugging in the same stone age combustion chamber into a Mopar head.

When the SBC Vortec head came out, Hot Rod did a back to back comparison between a conventional SB head and the new Vortec. IIRC they both flowed similar numbers but the V head had a smaller combustion chamber so compression was up about a 1/2 point.

On the same nothing fancy short block the V head was 70 HP better peak and did it with less than 30 deg of timing. IF you can believe HR Mag.

Trick Flow seems to have figured out it doesn't cost any more to make the right combustion chamber pattern than the wrong one. If this chamber shape works as well as the Vortec one apparently does, they will sell boat loads of them.

Kevin

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