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Re: Bored with 660hp....
[Re: Dragula]
#1687901
10/21/14 10:46 AM
10/21/14 10:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,354
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,354
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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What's the duration at .050" on the cam? LSA? I can't see the cam card attachment on my computer.
Like everyone else has said, that combo should be running a lot faster than it is IMO.
What torque converter do you have?
You have a tall tire w/ only 4.10 gears and just a 4500 stall...I'd say more gear and/or converter.
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Bored with 660hp....
[Re: Dragula]
#1687903
10/21/14 03:33 PM
10/21/14 03:33 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,112
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,112
Bend,OR USA
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When I saw that it lies down sometinmes at the top of 2nd and doesn't run good in high gear usually I thought of fuel starvation   All kidding aside, if you can not jet the carb. up enough to slow the MPH down in the 1/4 mile you don't have enough fuel DELIVERY. I've seen more than one car have fuel pressure(5+ lbs )at the finsh line and those guys couldn't jet the carb up enough to slow the car down, one case was to small of needles and seats, another was the fuel line size between the fuel reguator and the carb. There are many gremlins out there, it is up to us to figure out what is wrong and fix it  My wide ban helped me a bunch After jetting the six pak carbs up and not seeing one smidgen of differences on the wide ban I found my problem, it was the fuel filter element(BG 500 filter 10 micron paper element ) in the fuel filter between the tank and the pump  Another time on a new Holley 9375-3 HP carb. that had a .110 needles and seat in the front and a .100 in the back  I replaced them both with .120 and the same car pick up right away  Sometimes when things don't make sense there is a reason for that , figuring out the reason is the hard part
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Bored with 660hp....
[Re: Dragula]
#1687908
10/21/14 10:37 PM
10/21/14 10:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,112
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,112
Bend,OR USA
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I would pull the needles and seats and see what size they are, most of the OEM Holley needles and seats have the size stamped onto the side of the top of the slot on the seat where the locknut and lock screw fit into I reread your post on the engine combination, what are the BB Chevy cam specs, duration at .050, LSA and lobe lift BTW, if the engine dyno shop your going to use doesn't have a wide ban AFR sustem on it find one that does  There are , usually, three different fuel sensors that will tell you info on the fuel delivery(GPH), fuel pressure and fuel consumption, BSFC. The wide ban will tell you about the amount of O2 in the exhaust, 12.3 to 13.3 has worked well for me on N/A pump and race gas motors, depending on the motor, compression ratio and fuel used Good luck, there is a reason when parts don't perform as well as they should, the hard part is figuring out what is wrong 
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/21/14 10:43 PM.
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Re: Bored with 660hp....
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1687912
10/22/14 07:23 AM
10/22/14 07:23 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 998
Clinton Township, Michigan
Dartin
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 998
Clinton Township, Michigan
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Quote:
It doesn't have a "Chevy" cam. It has a camshaft for a HEMI or it wouldn't fit in the motor. And while the cam may not be ideal, it is not likely what is causing it to be way down on power. A .600ish lift cam with 260 and 268 @.050 on a 110 is not out of the ball park for a street ride. Now the cam could be installed wrong and seriously hurt power, but it is not down on power just because of the cam grind. A STOCK cam in a 484" HEMI should make more power than this one seems to.
You also say it slowed even more on the last outing. Are you sure the trans or converter is not hurt?
Monte
I am with Monte on this one. If the car keeps slowing, it is probably trans related. My car was acting similarly. Went home and pulled the pan and found the silver sludge. Had the trans rebuilt and found all of my missing mph and some new e.t.!
Randy
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Re: Bored with 660hp....
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1687913
10/22/14 01:29 PM
10/22/14 01:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
My first BB wedge stroker pump gas motor had a custom ground cam(by Benschoff(SP?) racing in Wisconsin in it with BB Chevy lobes ground on a 108 LSA, it worked way better than I expected I wouldn't expect those cam lobes to work that well in a street driven 426 hemi, especially when I hear most good BB Chevy cams are ground on 112 and wider LSA
Please enlighten me on what is a "Chevy" lobe and what is a "Mopar" lobe. That has to be about the craziest thing I ever heard. When selecting a cam, you go to a master lobe catalog and pick the lobes you want, both intake and exhaust and have it ground on the blank you want. A cam lobe does the same thing in any motor. It controls how much and how fast the valve opens and how fast it closes. That's it. Last I checked, those actions are not brand specific.
Monte
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Re: Bored with 660hp....
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1687915
10/22/14 02:20 PM
10/22/14 02:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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For flat tappet cams, the lifter acceleration that is possible is determined by the lifter diameter. The larger the diameter, the more acceleration of the lifter is possible.
That is the reason people used mushroom lifters.
In the Crane Cam Lobe Profile catalog, PP1112A, on Page 17 the F3 family of lobes has the note, "Designed to make full use of .842" diameter tappets." This would be called a "Chevy lobe", but it can be used in any engine that has an .842" or larger diameter lifter.
On Page 19 there is the F4 family of lobes with the note, "Designed to make full use of .875" diameter tappets." This is called a "Ford lobe" and use of an .842 lifter on this lobe would cause failure. The lobe is usable for any engine with an .875" or larger diameter lifter. NASCAR engines are limited to .875" diameter lifters.
On Page 22 there is the F12 family of lobes with the note, "F12 mechanical series created for Chrysler and AMC engines using .904" diameter tappets for racing applications." This is called a "Chrysler lobe" and can only be used with .904" or larger diameter lifters.
So if you had an Olds block with the .921" diameter lifters, you could use one of these lobes, but the lifters would probably tear out of the bores on the passenger side.
I believe it was Dave Hughes who first used the slogan, "Real Chrysler lobes". He may even have trademarked it.
On pages 3 and 4 of the catalog is a discussion of lobe design size when choosing a roller grind. I hadn't remembered this until I reread the catalog recently. Seems that base circle and roller diameter play a part in which roller lobe works in which engine.
But you knew all of this, right?
R.
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Re: Bored with 660hp....
[Re: Dragula]
#1687916
10/22/14 02:28 PM
10/22/14 02:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
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Quote:
Quote:
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Work with what you have. A fast car seldom gets like that in one season!
I know....I have had this combo for a while. It should run better than it does, its just seems like its stuck...
It should run better but besides your fuel or ignition problems, the combo is far from optimized.
Take my car for example, on the Dyno my engine made 750 hp at 6200 and 700 tq at 4900. It's a 526 wedge with Indy SR heads. Car weight is 3200lbs with driver. The car should be well into the 9's with the proper gear/converter/engine tune.
But I slowed it down by using a 4:10 gear with a 32 inch tire, a tight 3500 torque converter, and backed the timing down to 30 degrees total.
The result in Las Vegas where we run slower anyway was a 10.26 @ 131 mph.
So you probably have a lot left in your combo, I would say a whole second at least.
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Re: Bored with 660hp....
[Re: booger]
#1687917
10/22/14 03:08 PM
10/22/14 03:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
Quote:
Please enlighten me on what is a "Chevy" lobe and what is a "Mopar" lobe. That has to be about the craziest thing I ever heard. When selecting a cam, you go to a master lobe catalog and pick the lobes you want, both intake and exhaust and have it ground on the blank you want. A cam lobe does the same thing in any motor. It controls how much and how fast the valve opens and how fast it closes. That's it. Last I checked, those actions are not brand specific.
Monte
Yeah you're right but you're wrong too - read the first several items on this page
http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/1camshaftfrequentlyaskedquestions.php
Wrong is a matter of semantics I suppose, because when I spec a cam for ANY combo, I factor in lifter diameter. So when you factor in lifter diameter and get the opening and closing rates and numbers where you want them, a lobe is a lobe. Now if you want EXACTLY the same valve action with different diameter lifters, then yes, I suppose you could classify lobes as "brand" lobes because of stock lifter diameters. But in the world of "custom" cams, that would mean nothing.
I generally build motors with .937 lifters........so what "brand" of lobes should I run...........LOL
Monte
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Re: Bored with 660hp....
[Re: booger]
#1687919
10/22/14 03:36 PM
10/22/14 03:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
Quote:
Wrong is a matter of semantics I suppose, because when I spec a cam for ANY combo, I factor in lifter diameter. So when you factor in lifter diameter and get the opening and closing rates and numbers where you want them, a lobe is a lobe. Now if you want EXACTLY the same valve action with different diameter lifters, then yes, I suppose you could classify lobes as "brand" lobes because of stock lifter diameters. But in the world of "custom" cams, that would mean nothing.
I generally build motors with .937 lifters........so what "brand" of lobes should I run...........LOL
Monte
Every post of yours reminds me of Fonzie.
Ok, by YOUR definition, ANY motor with an .842 lifter has a Chevy cam.......ANY motor with an .875 lifter has a Ford cam and ANY motor with a .904 lifter has a Mopar cam..........I stand corrected then. Gee, I thought it kinda had something to do with firing orders, valve layouts and valve events. Guess I learned something new. Still not sure where that leaves guys with .937, 1.0 and 1.125 lifters.......just [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] brand motors I guess...........LOL!!!
I just did a cam for a big block Mopar, with .937 lifters, but it has a GM LS motor firing order..........wonder what the hell that is...............LOL!!!
Monte
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Re: Bored with 660hp....
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1687920
10/22/14 04:59 PM
10/22/14 04:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
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I am thinking the ls1 firing order would work good on a cross ram engine.
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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