Re: Which is better ball cup or ball ball pushrods and why?
[Re: Porter67]
#1675459
09/21/14 11:30 PM
09/21/14 11:30 PM
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MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
Maybe im stuck in the past using ball/cup pushrods but I see many use ball/ball.
Which is better? Or better yet what applications would one use one type vs the other?
I've been using ball and ball for 12+ years now.. if you look at the BEST rockers out there, they use ball and ball
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Re: Which is better ball cup or ball ball pushrods and why?
[Re: B G Racing]
#1675465
09/22/14 10:03 AM
09/22/14 10:03 AM
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Posts: 5,183
Porter67
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Yes BG I have found that out the hard way many years ago, some of the cheaper off the shelf pushrods have the thick cup that does cause issues with some rockers. I use Smith Brothers just for that reason as there cup material is not near as thick and cause less problems. I think its time I try to make the move to the ball ball in the future since it seems its become more the standard. I have been resisting going to the ball/ball mainly due to the lack of info and its hard to change when one gets older to newer trends. I have a few modern motors yet to build and they are both Ball/Ball the R5/P7 is and I don't recall what the older my older Aries 8.3 tractor pulling motor has in them, I think ball cup as its semi old. Early-mid 80-s I think. Thanks everyone for the input. Thumper, I think you have a extremely well running motor combo and its proof of what well matched parts can do and last a long time.
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Re: Which is better ball cup or ball ball pushrods and why?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1675471
09/22/14 02:29 PM
09/22/14 02:29 PM
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Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
On T&D single shaft rockers the pushrod length(+ or - .090) is very critical due to the oil slot in the adjusters for the ball end pushrods Not so much on all the single shaft Harland Sharp, Crane and all the rest of the ball and cup rockers I've used They can be within .150 of perfect and still work well
Cab.. thats a lot to play with... if a person cant get the length right.. within .020 or so then they need help doing it
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Re: Which is better ball cup or ball ball pushrods and why?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1675473
09/22/14 03:45 PM
09/22/14 03:45 PM
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Quote:
I wouldn't say one or the other is BETTER, just depends on the quality of parts used. I mostly use ball/ball but just put a set of "cup" pushrods in an 865" motor. Now of course those pushrods are so big, that basically the "cup" is machined into the pushrod, but it is still the same thing.
Now I will say, that in the case of a standard 3/8 pushrod deal, I prefer ball/ball because the pushrods are one piece and you can get them in .180 wall. That is a STOUT 3/8 pushrod, plus places like Comp and others keep them in stock at virtually any length you need in .050 increments
Monte
Thanks Monte. That's good info. Ordering pushrods is coming up next on my list.
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Re: Which is better ball cup or ball ball pushrods and why?
[Re: BradH]
#1675476
09/22/14 05:50 PM
09/22/14 05:50 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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One thing with big lift and ball/cup is you need the 120* radius which makes for a skinnier area right behind the ball and if you get a bit farther out past the rocker body you start side loading a lot more on the ball section and usually when you have big lift the spring pressure is up there
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Re: Which is better ball cup or ball ball pushrods and why?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1675479
09/23/14 11:42 PM
09/23/14 11:42 PM
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440Jim
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Quote:
I wouldn't say one or the other is BETTER, just depends on the quality of parts used. . . . Now I will say, that in the case of a standard 3/8 pushrod deal, I prefer ball/ball because the pushrods are one piece and you can get them in .180 wall.
Monte, I have seen mixed comments on the one-piece pushrods. Some manufacturers say the pressed in ends are better because the material can be different for the ends and the separate ends "can be" machined more accurately without thinning out the pushrod when forming the one-piece end.
My new motor has pressed in ends, 0.120" wall, 3/8" dia, ball-ball with T&D paired rocker system. That should be plenty with less than 800 open pressure. Quote:
Features Include:
Highest quality 4135 seamless Chromoly tubing for extreme applications Straight tube any length 180,000 psi tensile strength 240-degree ball for excellent rocker arm cup clearance Salt bath nitride surface treatment for outstanding wear properties and strength Tips are made from high impact, wear-resistant 8620 barstock that is case hardened and cryogenically treated and tempered
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Re: Which is better ball cup or ball ball pushrods and why?
[Re: AndyF]
#1675481
09/27/14 12:09 AM
09/27/14 12:09 AM
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jamesc
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Quote:
Jim, if your engine isn't together yet then take the time to provide clearance for larger pushrods. Buy one set of 1/2 inch pushrods just for clearance checking. At some point in the future you can swap over and see if there is any performance improvement. I think you'll find some power.
that's a good idea Andy and i agree
don't spend much time here these days but "think" i learned a little bit about push rods recently. for the more highly stressed components used these days i'm of the impression stepping up to a 7/16" double taper is a good idea. if i ever get my junk together i will be using more than a 3/8".
as for the ball/ball ball/cup thing i think it's a mixed bag. recently i learned (i think) of using copper/beryllium in cups. i haven't seen the parts yet but am curious to say the least. in recent months i've seen some VERY stout, seriously stressed valvetrain components (over 1" lift and STIFF springs) and was impressed.
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