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Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
#166
05/23/03 12:12 PM
05/23/03 12:12 PM
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Congratulations to Team Moparts for your acceptance into the 2003 Popular Hot Rodding Magazine Engine Masters Challenge competition. I'd like to personally thank Dan Costello, Mike Doty, Jesse Lackman, Tom Frysinger, and John Wenetta for making this happen. As you may have read on the pages of PHR, there are several websites participating as teams and this is a new thing not seen before. For this reason, I would like to inform those involved that I will be recommending the readers of PHR to visit here and to feel welcome asking questions of the particpants. Naturally, secret stuff will stay secret, but I'd hope it would be okay to encourage other enthusiasts to visit with their inquiries. I'd also like to inform all the members and visitors to this site about the other entrants in the Challenge who have been accepted and will be bringing Mopar engines into the battle. Ray Barton will be bringing a Hemi. Dick Landy will be bringing a Hemi. Tim Davis will be bringing a Wedge. Crower Motorsports will be bringing a 392-based Hemi. Nelson Racing Engines will be bringing a Wedge. T&B Performance will be bringing a Wedge. Performance Research will be bringing a Wedge. High Flow Performance will be bringing a Wedge. Kristopher Nelson (an independent builder) will also be bringing a Hemi. There are some other heavy hitters involved, too. I don't wish to take up too much of your space here, but I certainly wanted to extend my welcome, thank you for your entry, and encourage you to bring your best work. The competition is serious, and the lessons learned will serve to benefit all hot rodders running the streets on pump gas. I'll be checking in here occasionally, so if you've got some casual questions regarding the competition, please feel free to post them. Should the participants have technical questions requiring immediate attention, please e-mail them to me directly at scott.parkhurst@primedia.com.Our new EngineMasters.com website will be launched soon, and more information will be posted there as well. Thanks again, and we'll see you on Dyno Day! Scott Parkhurst Technical Editor/Popular Hot Rodding Magazine Technical Director/Engine Masters Challenge
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
#167
05/23/03 01:53 PM
05/23/03 01:53 PM
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Thanks for having us. This should be a good battle indeed.
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
#168
05/23/03 01:56 PM
05/23/03 01:56 PM
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do we have a thread talking about this? I've not been on much and no nothing about it!
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
#169
05/23/03 02:01 PM
05/23/03 02:01 PM
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well , sort of ...
thanks scott , there are some of the best names in the biz building for this competion , our group being included is pretty cool in our minds ...
there are more members involved in this than scott eluded to , anyone that replied to the original thread posted by andyf was given the opportunity to add to the mix . we have a good group and it will be interesting to see how we do .
once all is said and done all the info will be put in the public eye .
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
[Re: JohnRR]
#170
05/23/03 03:08 PM
05/23/03 03:08 PM
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Wild West
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Scott, I want to say thanks for allowing us in the contest. The competition is stiff (not even counting the other brands), but hopefully we will have a respectable engine to test nonetheless.
Since this is a multi person team I can only speak for myself, but assuming that once the competition is over and anyone is actually interested in any or all aspects of our entry, I would expect that the critical technical information would be publicly available to all either in magazine articles or here.
Also, there are other people contributing to this with monetary support and/or parts donations, as well as the ones just giving general support.
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
[Re: M_D]
#172
05/23/03 03:30 PM
05/23/03 03:30 PM
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Congrats to the Moparts entrants! If nothing else, the Moparts.com entry will showcase the engine building talents and expertise that exist on this board.
GO MOPARTS!!!
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge *DELETED*
#173
05/23/03 04:01 PM
05/23/03 04:01 PM
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I guess moderators are NOT allowed to have an Opinion ???
Last edited by carl; 05/23/03 08:37 PM.
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
#174
05/23/03 04:24 PM
05/23/03 04:24 PM
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TrWaters
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I guess no one asked Carl to be on the team?
TR Waters
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
[Re: TrWaters]
#175
05/23/03 04:30 PM
05/23/03 04:30 PM
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From the information ive seen given out on this board i think Moparts should have a very respectible engine. GO MOPARTS!
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
#176
05/23/03 05:41 PM
05/23/03 05:41 PM
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Not to start anything but unless I'm missing something major then I disagree with Carl - it was a public post asking for interest - the team was selected from the respondants of that post. I remember reading it and I also remember opting to not respond and join cause I didn't feel I had enough time/knowledge to be useful.
Now that the team is selected I think it's totally appropriate for them to avoid disclosing too much info publicly. It is a competition after all...
Best of luck to the Moparts team!!
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
#177
05/23/03 06:46 PM
05/23/03 06:46 PM
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Hudson Mass
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Manimal is right on this one, Carl, you have some bada$$ stuff, and your work is great, I go to the tech files all the time, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart, but I remember the post, I think andyf started it, and it was an open request for the members to contribute if they felt they could, if you replied, and wanted to be in, and they turned you away, thats a different story, I hope the latter is not the case, because I would hate to see any animosity towards the best team, That being the mods on Moparts, and all its members, over this engine masters thing, in the big picture that is just a very small piece, your contributions, and input are second from none, from the outside looking in, dont be offended.
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
[Re: 67Mopar]
#178
05/23/03 06:54 PM
05/23/03 06:54 PM
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JohnRR
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just for the record of everyone that responded to that original thread that was up for about 10 days and had over 1500 views , all but 2 people , ( one was not able to help out in any capacity and the other never responded to my PM ) that responded are able to view and respond to whats going on .
of that orignal list , all but a few respond to what we have accomplished so far . its not a large group , but its a good group that gets along amazingly well , a couple guys are in forgien countries and can only help with tech info which has been a great help .
this thread really doesn't need to be a debating stump , i appreciate ANY and all comments .
in the end moparts.com as a whole wins .
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
[Re: 67Mopar]
#179
05/23/03 07:00 PM
05/23/03 07:00 PM
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Carl,
As far as I know everybody who posted to that thread, and expressed interest was able to join. Nobody "selected" me and I am definitely not a member of an "elite" anything.
I think it reflects well on the talent level of this board that a self-selecting group of Moparts members, most of whom have never met, was chosen to field an entry in this competition.
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
[Re: JohnRR]
#180
05/23/03 07:07 PM
05/23/03 07:07 PM
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can you disclose any of the basics?
hemi or wedge?
i think i missed that thread but i wouldnt be any help anyway!
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
#181
05/23/03 07:11 PM
05/23/03 07:11 PM
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i haven't seen the latest issue of PHR, but i'm curious as to which other web boards are participating???
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
#182
05/23/03 07:13 PM
05/23/03 07:13 PM
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
#183
05/23/03 07:39 PM
05/23/03 07:39 PM
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S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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I think it's great you guys got it together. Best of luck and I hope you guys finish in the money  Go team Moparts 
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
[Re: Brian_wo]
#185
05/23/03 09:44 PM
05/23/03 09:44 PM
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You know, I think Carl may have a point. If I remember correctly, There was a post with the subject " If you were to build an Engine masters engine, what would you build?" I'm wondering if there was there ever a "hey, if you would like to participate in the engine masters engine please post here" ? If there was such a post , I certainly do not recall it.
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
#186
05/23/03 09:51 PM
05/23/03 09:51 PM
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Brian_wo
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Quote:
You know, I think Carl may have a point. If I remember correctly, There was a post with the subject " If you were to build an Engine masters engine, what would you build?" I'm wondering if there was there ever a "hey, if you would like to participate in the engine masters engine please post here" ? If there was such a post , I certainly do not recall it.
well I never got see carls complaint but I can clear things up a little for you Greg
this thread was started by Andy(451boy)
I'm actually serious about this. How about if we gather up the parts and build an entry for the Enginemaster competition? I might go in for the shortblock, someone else would need to provide a set of heads, another guy might have a good carb, etc. Total prize money is $100K or more depending on contingency. If we won we would split the prize. If not, either sell the engine or tear it back down and send the parts back to the people who put them up.
470 inch maximum, pump gas, solid lifter cam. Dyno pulls from 2500 rpm to 6500 rpm so the motor has to make torque. Rules are at www.enginemasters.com if you're interested. The motor is going to have to make 750 hp to be in the ballpark so leave the weenie crap at home.
I'm not at all convinced what the best Mopar big block combo would be to go after. I'm kind of leaning towards a long stroke small bore setup such as a 4.125 stroke in a 383 block. The lower deck block seems to be good from a weight and stiffness standpoint but the shorter intake manifold hurts.
Not at all sure on the heads, maybe E heads that are massaged to the hilt or maybe Indy SR's? The need for torque probably rules out the B1 and big Indy stuff but I don't really know.
who is that guy?
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
[Re: Brian_wo]
#187
05/23/03 10:36 PM
05/23/03 10:36 PM
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I can't believe I did not see that.
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
#188
05/23/03 10:43 PM
05/23/03 10:43 PM
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Quote:
I can't believe I did not see that.
Greg, it was back in early February.
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
[Re: Brian_wo]
#190
05/23/03 11:17 PM
05/23/03 11:17 PM
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Brian, I know you have every post ever posted at Moparts. I don't know if thats good or bad. LOL I knew you would post that. I knew it. You must have 100 GB of storage.
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
[Re: Molloy]
#195
05/24/03 01:58 AM
05/24/03 01:58 AM
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I saw that post but have nothing to add. Bummer.
GO MOPARTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
#197
05/24/03 09:32 AM
05/24/03 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Ray Barton will be bringing a Hemi.
Dick Landy will be bringing a Hemi.
Tim Davis will be bringing a Wedge.
Crower Motorsports will be bringing a 392-based Hemi.
Nelson Racing Engines will be bringing a Wedge.
T&B Performance will be bringing a Wedge. Performance Research will be bringing a Wedge.
High Flow Performance will be bringing a Wedge.
Kristopher Nelson (an independent builder) will also be bringing a Hemi.
According to: www.enginemasters.com/rules.shtml
ROCKER ARMS: Any commercially available*, stud-mounted rocker arms are acceptable. Shaft-mounted rockers are not allowed unless they were an OEM offering (i.e. Mopar). Multiple rocker shafts per cylinder head are not allowed. All rocker arms must retain the OEM ratio and mounting location.
If "Multiple rocker shafts per cylinder head are not allowed", how can a hemi engine be entered in the competition?
Is the hemi to be banned from another competition? 
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
#199
05/24/03 09:42 AM
05/24/03 09:42 AM
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JohnRR
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revised rules are not posted yet , the hemi is not banned as it is a factory setup , what is not allowed is changing stud mounted rocker system to a shaft system . i think its jesel that makes a full roller rocker for chevies , you replace the stud with a roller fulcrum setup ...
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
[Re: JohnRR]
#200
05/24/03 10:12 AM
05/24/03 10:12 AM
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MPerry
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Wow!  I guess I snoozed bigtime on that post. I never realized Moparts was entering the competition.  It will be interesting to see the results though! Good Luck! ~Mike~
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
[Re: JohnRR]
#201
05/24/03 10:17 AM
05/24/03 10:17 AM
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TrWaters
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I personally will be watching that 392 build up...this competition is a win/win situation for all of us.....win or loose.  TrWaters
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
[Re: quickd100]
#202
05/24/03 10:34 AM
05/24/03 10:34 AM
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JohnRR
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Quote:
I missed the post. What block is being used? Hell I've got a 6/31/71 400 block in the garage. I'll donate it to the cause if they want to build a low deck stroker. And depending on the time frame I'll even deliver it to Jesse's place in Center ND. 
i didn't really want this to turn into a discussion of sorts , but since you asked .
we are building a low deck , using 9/13/71 block that i bought from Tony D , may turn into a donation , just a hair under the 470 inch limit , head choice is super limited for wedge motors , right now i won't say what we are running but lets just say that any GOOD head is nmot allowed ...
once we hit the intial dyno session what's going on behind the scenes will be open for all to see , read only , because of the nature of this competition and the fact that you can read moparts without being a registered member , ie: the lurkers , the forum can't be accessed for casual observance .
if there is anyone that would like to help out to really make this a MOPARTS effort , what we could use is a LOAN of parts in a few areas , things like a jesel belt drive for the dyno sessions to make cam changes faster , big tube production headers to try on the dyno , no fenderwell , must be total chassis exit . also when the time comes to get it from DRAM in florida to jesse in north dakota maybe a moparts relay of sorts , this is show and race season , a corner of a car trailer or pickup bed for a crate to move it would help alot , then back from jesse to me in mass so i can run it up and down the coast .
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
[Re: Jesse_Lackman]
#204
05/24/03 01:04 PM
05/24/03 01:04 PM
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JohnRR
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jesse , 3 hours from me to the "other shop" ... and about 6 hours to philly for the prelims ...
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
[Re: JohnRR]
#205
05/24/03 01:24 PM
05/24/03 01:24 PM
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State College, PA
RyanJ
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Quote:
jesse , 3 hours from me to the "other shop" ... and about 6 hours to philly for the prelims ...
The Prelims are in Philly????? Oooooo I might have to go watch my port work in action
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
[Re: Brian_wo]
#207
05/24/03 02:07 PM
05/24/03 02:07 PM
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If I am close enough to that "other dyno shop" let me know..I'll be glad to lend a hand doing whatever. TrWaters
TR Waters
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
[Re: 440FISH]
#212
05/24/03 07:52 PM
05/24/03 07:52 PM
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Renton Wa
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aweomse deal guys, guess I missed the post as well 
11.48 @ 120 with a 1.80 60' 318, stock 1.88 heads, stock 904, Pump Gas, 13 lbs of boost.
9.94 @ 134, 318 on pump gas, 14 lbs w/ Eddies, transbrake 727, 3600 lbs, 3.54 gear and 28's.
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
[Re: topfueldart]
#213
05/24/03 08:08 PM
05/24/03 08:08 PM
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Brian_wo
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anyone that wants to help but doesn't have any parts or advice can always help out by opening their check books,I know we need valves,springs and retainers yet,all of those things a guy would be reimbursed for by me personally,I have forked out the cash to buy the heads and thats let me tapped for now.
If this is doable PM Johnrr.
who is that guy?
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
[Re: 440FISH]
#214
05/24/03 08:33 PM
05/24/03 08:33 PM
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JohnRR
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Quote:
When does the motor need to be done by?
Will there be a web-site that has the build ups on it?, I would like to read all the build ups and I know that the magazine will not have all of them in it.
P.S. good work to the guys that are doing this. This is no small task!!
MOre PAweR to ya!
good questions that i don't even know the answer to .
edit ... i'm not to the point of looking for any donations ....as of yet , loaning a few parts and moving this thing around the country would be the best thing at the moment .
sorry jesse , no paypal for me .
Last edited by JohnRR; 05/24/03 10:59 PM.
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challenge
[Re: JohnRR]
#215
05/25/03 12:52 AM
05/25/03 12:52 AM
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Wonder If I fly myself in, can I watch???
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
[Re: Brian_wo]
#216
05/25/03 11:19 AM
05/25/03 11:19 AM
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This should be a real awsome eye opener for the other brands, I am totally convince the mopar engine will leave the others behind. I also think that the whatever secrets used to build these engines shouyld be kept so.The same way they do at nascar so the edge it kept. Even though alot of the info is out there. Good luck. I am sure we all will learn alot from these rebuilds and maybe after you could write down,post, some of the tricks that are not commonly known. "GIMME FUEL ,GIMME FIRE GIMME THAT WHICH I DESIRE" ..GO MOPARTS ...
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
[Re: mopar_man]
#218
05/25/03 05:44 PM
05/25/03 05:44 PM
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From what I saw of the small-block engine challenge, you may want to reconsider entering regionals on the East Coast ... all the Left Coast offerings got a real leg up thanks to Westech Performance's numbers. I know East Coast builders aren't wusses, but the numbers they generated on "other" dynos just didn't match up with what the "home dyno" of the magazines generated. Fortunately, Moparts is a worldwide mafia of Mopar motorheads (how's that for alliteration?) so it'd be fair for us if we went to the shop that generated the best numbers ... Randy Hagan jrhmobile@yahoo.com
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
[Re: mopar_man]
#219
05/25/03 07:39 PM
05/25/03 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Well, I have only built about 30-40 engines in my life time and most being stock. Its an awesome challenge to go up against pro racers and engine builders but sometimes its the little things that come out big.
I have some ideas but not sure they would be allowed but they might be . i'd be quite happy to explain my ideas to any of the guys who are going to build this sucker.......then again my ideas might be old news to all the hot engine builders.
mopar man, i'm all ears if you'd like to send me a PM. even old dogs can learn new tricks sometimes, LOL.
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
[Re: Brian_wo]
#220
05/25/03 09:48 PM
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Well, I have been out of touch also but here is my 2-cents worth on some ideas. I like the smaller bore longer stroke idea, but i think the 3.9 stroke 400 bore block might be better. The head choice looks to be bolt-on stock rockers stuff. I think the Stage VI heads on the b block would be a good choice, takes care of the short runner problem. Talk to Rob Goebel about what kind of performance flow numbers you can get out of a set of Stage VI heads. his dragster is awesome. The valve shrouding problems you can get with the 400 bore and closed chamber heads should really not be a problem with the heads. The Team-G for the low block would probably be the best choice if you go with stock intake runners. The Stage VI heads will allow for the raised block intake runners. that can make a big difference. As for other things, i have a set of cast aluminum valve covers i can donate. I also have a double roller timing chain set-up that i would donate if you want it. My jesel belt drive is alreasy installed on the Hemi or you could use it. if any of these things would help, let me know.
Bigdogclancy
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
#221
05/25/03 11:12 PM
05/25/03 11:12 PM
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I must have been in a box in February because I missed it all too. I'm on board now though. This should be alot of fun!
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
#222
05/26/03 05:53 PM
05/26/03 05:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,667
Buford, GA
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JohnRR, I would be more than happy to help on the relay when it comes time to move it.Maybe it could be set up to relay it state-to-state. Also, maybe it could be arranged to have it in a small enclosed trailer (locked to prevent tampering) that could be transferred from vehicle to vehicle to lessen the chance of dropping it from a hoist. I have a 4x8 trailer I would lend but its not enclosed. Let me know. Tim
'71 Charger 383/727 '17 Challenger SXT (Wifeys car  )
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
[Re: I_bleed_MOPAR]
#223
05/26/03 07:10 PM
05/26/03 07:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,974
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,974
U.S.S.A.
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the trailer idea sounds like a good one , it will be in a crate , more than like seaaled and banded so it would be a matter of sliding it from one pickup bed to another .
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
#224
05/26/03 07:11 PM
05/26/03 07:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,974
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,974
U.S.S.A.
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bigdog , thanks for those ideas , i have a question about the jesel , i'll PM you .
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
#225
05/26/03 11:02 PM
05/26/03 11:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 752
North Dakota
Jesse_Lackman
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 752
North Dakota
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Quote:
From what I saw of the small-block engine challenge, you may want to reconsider entering regionals on the East Coast ... all the Left Coast offerings got a real leg up thanks to Westech Performance's numbers.
I know East Coast builders aren't wusses, but the numbers they generated on "other" dynos just didn't match up with what the "home dyno" of the magazines generated.
Fortunately, Moparts is a worldwide mafia of Mopar motorheads (how's that for alliteration?) so it'd be fair for us if we went to the shop that generated the best numbers ...
Randy Hagan
jrhmobile@yahoo.com
While it is true the Westech numbers were higher than the other qualifying dyno numbers, it doesn't matter where you qualify as the top qualifiers from each dyno go to Westech for the finals.
In other words during the qualifying round you are only competing against the other entrants testing on the dyno you are qualifying on.
The top qualifiers from each shop go to the Westech dyno for the final round.
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
[Re: Jesse_Lackman]
#226
05/27/03 03:42 AM
05/27/03 03:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,200
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,200
Someplace you aren't
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I can help in the relay. The one fella is in GA that said he could help on that right? If he could get it in FL and meet me in GA or TN I could run it up near Chicago.
My hoist is a 3 part deal so I can ferry it around to make the swaps.
If you decide to go Stage VI on the low deck I have an Edelbrock RPM intake I can donate/loan/whatever
I want my fair share
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Re: Team Moparts - Engine Masters Challe
[Re: JohnRR]
#227
05/27/03 07:51 AM
05/27/03 07:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 634
USA
Slider
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 634
USA
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Well, I DO recall seeing the post, so I'll vouch for you guys that it was there. LOL! I don't have any experience, and I don't have a truck to assist in hauling/shipping, but let me know (via PM, as I might miss a post) if there is a 'collection plate,' and I'd be glad to pitch in what I can. And, you guys can DEFINITELY count on me for moral support!! GO FOR IT!!
�Hunt down those Chevies and Fords and crush �em like bugs!� ~ Tom Hoover
(O=o=====o=O)
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