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Re: Head gaskets didn't seal [Re: GregY] #1656297
08/08/14 08:34 PM
08/08/14 08:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,907
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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JohnRR  Offline
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Posts: 74,907
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



I used some FelPro 1009's once that apparently overhung and blew.





When exactly did this happen? Was it with these heads and after the machining?

How did you discover that water was getting into a cylinder?




No this was in the motors old days. All the stuff (heads/machine work) is new. Motor was broken in and dyno tested, the shop didn't report any problems. Started spewing coolant as soon as I got it installed (which was like a year after I got it back, I am a slow worker) and started it.

The water got in the oil too, not just the combustion chamber. Does that offer any clues as to what is happening?

Also, I am not going to buy new head bolts, I am going to check the bolt and dowel lenghts, and I am going to buy better gaskets, probably the recommended Edelbrock 7325.

Maybe I am already insane, and that is causing my car problems, not the other way around!

Thanks for all the help, it is really appreciated.

Greg




Have you taken it apart yet ? If not pull the intake , drain the oil , pull the plug on that cylinder , leave the drain plug out fill the cooling system and get a pressure testor on it and pump up the system to see if you can pin point the leak ???

If the head is off see if you can borrow a torque plate and pump it up , but with the head off a cracked cylinder wall should be easy to spot ...

Re: Head gaskets didn't seal [Re: JohnRR] #1656298
08/11/14 01:20 PM
08/11/14 01:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,799
ILL
M
MLR426 Offline
master
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M

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Posts: 4,799
ILL
Also check for tweeked rod from coolant being in cylinder. Not saying this is the case but I lightly mill all new heads due to new head stress relieving in the box. In many cases it takes .006 thous to straighten a new head aluminum or cast iron. A high speed head and block mill for good surfaces using CBN for cast iron and PCD for aluminum heads. Surfacing Button materials used are Cubic Boron Nitrate (CBN) and Polycrystalite Diamond (PCD). When using MLS gaskets use a high speed mill ONLY for great surface finishes.

MLR426

Re: Head gaskets didn't seal [Re: JohnRR] #1656299
08/11/14 10:05 PM
08/11/14 10:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,309
Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
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BSB67  Offline
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Posts: 4,309
Prospect, PA
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



I used some FelPro 1009's once that apparently overhung and blew.





When exactly did this happen? Was it with these heads and after the machining?

How did you discover that water was getting into a cylinder?




No this was in the motors old days. All the stuff (heads/machine work) is new. Motor was broken in and dyno tested, the shop didn't report any problems. Started spewing coolant as soon as I got it installed (which was like a year after I got it back, I am a slow worker) and started it.

The water got in the oil too, not just the combustion chamber. Does that offer any clues as to what is happening?

Also, I am not going to buy new head bolts, I am going to check the bolt and dowel lenghts, and I am going to buy better gaskets, probably the recommended Edelbrock 7325.

Maybe I am already insane, and that is causing my car problems, not the other way around!

Thanks for all the help, it is really appreciated.

Greg




Have you taken it apart yet ? If not pull the intake , drain the oil , pull the plug on that cylinder , leave the drain plug out fill the cooling system and get a pressure testor on it and pump up the system to see if you can pin point the leak ???

If the head is off see if you can borrow a torque plate and pump it up , but with the head off a cracked cylinder wall should be easy to spot ...




Exactly what he said.

You've made bit of an assumption that it is a head gasket or head surface. You could be right, but you should have done a pressure test to find the leak before you took it apart. If there is no smoking gun, I recommend that you put the head back on that bank and pressure test with air. Although unlikely, it could be a head combustion chamber or exhaust port crack as well.

Last edited by BSB67; 08/11/14 10:10 PM.
Re: Head gaskets didn't seal [Re: GregY] #1656300
08/12/14 01:33 PM
08/12/14 01:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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Dodgem  Offline
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Ontario, Canada
Buy a stud kit best all round results.

Re: Head gaskets didn't seal [Re: Dodgem] #1656301
08/12/14 02:05 PM
08/12/14 02:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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moper Offline
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IMO you don't need studs - but you might want to use the right head gaskets. The Felpro stock type are not pre-flattened wire - per Edelbrock they should be to avoid long term sealing issues. You should be using the Performance 1009s. If those leaked - have the head(s) & block checked for flatness and preferably not by the shop that cut it.

Edit after re-reading... If the egnine blew a 1009 - you have more issues than a clamping problem. What are the rest of the particulars on this engine? Pistons? Actual measured compression, timing setup, etc. What do the spark plugs look like?

Last edited by moper; 08/12/14 02:07 PM.

Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: Head gaskets didn't seal [Re: GregY] #1656302
08/12/14 09:16 PM
08/12/14 09:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,531
Jacksonville, FL
Chris2581 Offline
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Chris2581  Offline
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Jacksonville, FL
The Edelbrock gaskets are sourced to them by Fel Pro and are the 8519 PT gaskets.


Nautilus Racing-
We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.
Re: Head gaskets didn't seal [Re: GregY] #1656303
08/12/14 10:40 PM
08/12/14 10:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
S
Sport440 Offline
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Sport440  Offline
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Canton, Ohio
Quote:


They were the recommended Edelbrock head bolts.

At this point I will probably just pony up and buy new ones. What's another $100? Once my car makes me broke and insane, the $100 will be the least of my worries.




These are Different as DogDays suggest! reuse them

I think your Bolts were hydraulic locking on torque down from unclean holes giving you false torque readings Or you have a water leak in a cylinder or something. A decked block and new Eddyies at 9.5 comp shouldnt leak at all with the PT 8519pti,s. Something else is going on.

Your variable release torque forces of the head bolts were a indicater of that, IMO

Re: Head gaskets didn't seal [Re: Chris2581] #1656304
08/14/14 10:01 AM
08/14/14 10:01 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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moper Offline
I Live Here
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
Quote:

The Edelbrock gaskets are sourced to them by Fel Pro and are the 8519 PT gaskets.




So it must be right?
That's not what Felpro recommends for aluminum heads.
I don't run Edelbtrock's springs or their valve job either because it's been proven time and time again that they suck. Edelbrock says that's all acceptable too. I suppose it's never a problem until it is.


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: Head gaskets didn't seal [Re: moper] #1656305
08/14/14 09:40 PM
08/14/14 09:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,035
Missouri U.S.A.
7
71yelladustr Offline
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71yelladustr  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,035
Missouri U.S.A.
I just went through a similar situation when I put aluminum heads on my .060 over 440. Tried the factory replacement fel pro and the 1009 fel pro gaskets and BOTH overhang into the .060 over cylinders. Even though they say they fit up to a 4.400 bore, the fire rings were hanging in the cylinders at 4.380 bore. The fel pro marine gaskets are what you need to fit your .060 over bore. Also had the bottoming out issue with ARP bolts. The middle row of bolts were not seating on the head when torqued.


392 gen III hemi on E-85 727 trans Dana 60
10.02@134
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