What will it pick up?
#1653162
07/30/14 07:06 PM
07/30/14 07:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
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W. Kentucky
justinp61
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Going from a flat solid 260/264 @ .050 with .628I/.633E lift to a solid roller, 260/266 @ .050 with .660I/.641E lift. Both having a LSA of 106 in at 102.
Pump gas 408, 10.9-1 compression, ported Edelbrocks, Victor 340, Bigs 950HP. In a 3260 (with me) 69 Dart, 727, 4.10 Dana, has ran several 6.57s in the 1/8 and 6.70 in street trim. According to the on line calculators it's in the 540-560 hp range.
Any educated guesses?
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Re: What will it pick up?
[Re: justinp61]
#1653163
07/30/14 07:12 PM
07/30/14 07:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,705
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
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Like conditions to like conditions, with zero other changes than the cam swap...... I will say between 8 hundreds and 15 hundreds.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: What will it pick up?
[Re: justinp61]
#1653168
07/30/14 09:15 PM
07/30/14 09:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,894
Florida
Locomotion
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master
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Florida
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There was a cam comparison in one of the old Direct Connection manuals, for big blocks, I believe, that showed the ET differences with each cam - .484", .509", etc. It was in a 400 and may have been hydraulic cams. But it provided an interesting comparison of each step-up in cams and could offer a clue on what to expect. There may have been one for solids as well.
Anybody know if that is out on the internet somewhere?
Last edited by Locomotion; 07/30/14 09:17 PM.
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Re: What will it pick up?
[Re: justinp61]
#1653169
07/31/14 10:31 AM
07/31/14 10:31 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,178
Indy
FlyFish
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super stock
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Indy
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My guess is it will run about the same, maybe 0.1 quicker depending on the ramps, head flow, etc. Our engines are almost identical except I have a small street roller (248/254 with .576/.582 lift). Mine has run a best of 6.67 (when it was not tuned right yet), but now it usually runs in the 6.70's in street trim with mufflers. I'm hoping to nick the 6.599999's this fall now that I have the fuel curve sorted out.
67 Barracuda street car, 408, e85, 1.38 60', 6.44 @105.9 in the 1/8 mile, 10.19 @130.5 in the 1/4...so far....
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Re: What will it pick up?
[Re: FlyFish]
#1653170
07/31/14 12:23 PM
07/31/14 12:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
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W. Kentucky
justinp61
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I guess I ate the flow sheets, I do remember that the flow from .650" to .700" was not much different. They peaked at 293 with 2.02" valves, now have 2.055" valves. Curtis Boggs did the port work and RyanJ freshened them and installed the new valves when I built the 408. The lobes on the roller are gentle enough to not kill the valve gear and survive on the street. I'm thinking it's not going to be worth the $1400-$1500 to change over. The plan is to freshen this motor over the winter, I've beat on it for five years with no issues. Just want to make sure it stays that way. 
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Re: What will it pick up?
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1653172
07/31/14 01:42 PM
07/31/14 01:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
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W. Kentucky
justinp61
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This car is a compromise from one end to the other. It HAS to run on pump 93. I'm sure it would be fine with another 1/2 point of compression, but then I'm looking at custom pistons and a rebalance. Also IIRC .660 lift is all it can stand before pistons and valves start getting too close for comfort. I could fly cut the pistons but I don't think the heads could make use of the extra lift. I built the car to run hard on gas that I can stop anywhere (here) and buy, be reliable without much maintenance, not run hot and be able to jump in it at any time and take off. So far it's been all I was wanting, in fact it has ran much better than expected. I was hoping for low 6.90s, the first pass it ran 6.83 spinning. Honestly I didn't expect to pick up a ton with a similar sized roller, but if I could get .25 or .3 I would seriously consider spending the money. I also know $500 worth of nitrous would pick up a bunch but I'm not a power adder guy. For the most part nitrous cars don't impress me, hard running na cars do. Thanks guys
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Re: What will it pick up?
[Re: justinp61]
#1653173
07/31/14 02:14 PM
07/31/14 02:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,415
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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I am gonna break from the majority on this one, I would think it would pick up a .2 or .3 in the 1/4 easily but not in the 1/8th. The duration at .200-.500+ is going to be much bigger and probably a hair less seat to seat duration could build a tiny bit more cylinder pressure and add up to a nice bump through out the RPM range, not just at peak HP. The 30 thou extra lift alone would be insignificant but the whole cam profile is where it would make the difference, still better check PV clearance real close as the extra duration at lower lift is where you will have a problem NOT at the .660 lift.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: What will it pick up?
[Re: justinp61]
#1653174
07/31/14 03:21 PM
07/31/14 03:21 PM
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Canton, Ohio
Sport440
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Quote:
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The lobes on the roller are gentle enough to not kill the valve gear and survive on the street.
If its a mild roller the lift curves may be similer to what you have now ,but a little extra lift. If thats the case you really wont see any improvement.
You say its gentle, do you know the dur. @ 200/ 300 etc between this cam and the old one?
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Re: What will it pick up?
[Re: Sport440]
#1653175
07/31/14 05:18 PM
07/31/14 05:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,870
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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Justin,
I'm in the same boat going from a 261/268 @.050 and .585/.570 on 107 in at 105 mild roller to a 260/269 @.050 with .668/645 lift on 108 in at 106.
The heads (airwolfs) are "advertised' to flow 301 at .500 and ~314 at .650 so I should have been leaving airflow on the table with the old "Endurance" roller. I'm also at least 10 degrees at .200 "hotter" than the old cam.
I'm doing a big converter swap at the same time so I'm not sure how much I'll be able to tell....but I'm about a week out from the converter swap, I'd like to try to get a couple baseline passes on just the cam.
Last edited by Streetwize; 07/31/14 05:19 PM.
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Re: What will it pick up?
[Re: Sport440]
#1653176
07/31/14 07:16 PM
07/31/14 07:16 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61
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Quote:
You say its gentle, do you know the dur. @ 200/ 300 etc between this cam and the old one?
Roller is E178 @ .200, I181 @ .200, my cam is E177 @ .
200, I181 @ .200. I had to call Dave to get the .200 numbers on my cam, he wants me to check the cranking pressure before I buy a cam. Dave thinks my car could be faster with a smaller (more cylinder pressure) cam. I'll check it and call him back tomorrow.
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Re: What will it pick up?
[Re: Streetwize]
#1653177
07/31/14 09:28 PM
07/31/14 09:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267
North, Alabama
D-50
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pro stock
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Quote:
Justin,
I'm in the same boat going from a 261/268 @.050 and .585/.570 on 107 in at 105 mild roller to a 260/269 @.050 with .668/645 lift on 108 in at 106.
The heads (airwolfs) are "advertised' to flow 301 at .500 and ~314 at .650 so I should have been leaving airflow on the table with the old "Endurance" roller. I'm also at least 10 degrees at .200 "hotter" than the old cam.
I'm doing a big converter swap at the same time so I'm not sure how much I'll be able to tell....but I'm about a week out from the converter swap, I'd like to try to get a couple baseline passes on just the cam.
What is more important or makes more power, the duration @ .050 or the lift? My cam in my small block has less duration @ .050 but has more lift than Streetwize.
1.33 60 ft,6.21 at 110.59 in the 1/8, pump gas small block,2950lbs,drag radials,mufflers and driven to track ...
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Re: What will it pick up?
[Re: D-50]
#1653178
07/31/14 09:33 PM
07/31/14 09:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 403
Romulus, MI
GTS340
mopar
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mopar
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Romulus, MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Justin,
I'm in the same boat going from a 261/268 @.050 and .585/.570 on 107 in at 105 mild roller to a 260/269 @.050 with .668/645 lift on 108 in at 106.
The heads (airwolfs) are "advertised' to flow 301 at .500 and ~314 at .650 so I should have been leaving airflow on the table with the old "Endurance" roller. I'm also at least 10 degrees at .200 "hotter" than the old cam.
I'm doing a big converter swap at the same time so I'm not sure how much I'll be able to tell....but I'm about a week out from the converter swap, I'd like to try to get a couple baseline passes on just the cam.
What is more important or makes more power, the duration @ .050 or the lift? My cam in my small block has less duration @ .050 but has more lift than Streetwize.
Both are critical and need to be matched to your cylinder head flow specs and your static compression ratio to optimize your engine combination. Rate of lift is also very important and seems to be often overlooked.
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Re: What will it pick up?
[Re: D-50]
#1653179
07/31/14 11:56 PM
07/31/14 11:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,415
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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It is all about flow VS duration. The more degrees you are accessing higher flow the more power you can make, you also do not want flow from intake to exhaust or cylinder back up the intake, this is the big secret to all the power the OEMs are making with baby cams duration speaking. They are not afraid to build a head with tremendous low/mid lift flow and use cams to access the higher lifts faster.
.050 lift is less than a penny thickness BTW and will have very little effect on flow if the peak lift is the only change thats why all the duration numbers are needed.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: What will it pick up?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1653180
08/01/14 12:05 AM
08/01/14 12:05 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267
North, Alabama
D-50
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pro stock
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Quote:
It is all about flow VS duration. The more degrees you are accessing higher flow the more power you can make, you also do not want flow from intake to exhaust or cylinder back up the intake, this is the big secret to all the power the OEMs are making with baby cams duration speaking. They are not afraid to build a head with tremendous low/mid lift flow and use cams to access the higher lifts faster.
.050 lift is less than a penny thickness BTW and will have very little effect on flow if the peak lift is the only change thats why all the duration numbers are needed.
Mine is 255/266 @ .050 and 704 lift with 1.65 ratio T&D rockers with 10.9 to 1 compression ratio, pump gas. The low comp. is probably why the need for lower duration at .050.
1.33 60 ft,6.21 at 110.59 in the 1/8, pump gas small block,2950lbs,drag radials,mufflers and driven to track ...
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