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How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? #1648557
07/20/14 12:01 PM
07/20/14 12:01 PM
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Posts: 984
San Diego CA
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65 Hemi Offline OP
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65 Hemi  Offline OP
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San Diego CA
I have 3 long blocks and I would like to change 1 to a turbo or Procharger. First I have 12:1 Indy-1 500" 4.15 stroke eagle rotating assy with World Block. Second I have a 583 B1MC world block with 4.5 Calies Crank and Alum rods 14:1, and third I have a 540 -1 12:1 world block with 4.50 stroke 440 source rotating assy.
Which one would be the best to change and make 1200 street able HP???


Doug

MOPAR or NO CAR!!!
1965 Dodge Coronet soon a 6.1 Hemi with a Magnson blower 810 hp on pump gas
1964 Dodge Polara 582" Indy alum Block 426-1RA heads,
1933 Plymouth PE all Steel, LT1 4L60E
1959 Plymouth Savoy 33,000 mile survivor
Old cars are never done. They are ongoing projects!
Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: 65 Hemi] #1648558
07/20/14 12:28 PM
07/20/14 12:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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gregsdart  Offline
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
I would go with the B1Mc motor with lower compression pistons. It is easier to put a mild cam in it and add a blower to get the 1200 hp over the others. Cubes rule, blown or not. Heads likewise. The more power you want to make, the better they need to be. I am partial to screw type blowers. Whipple has sizes that will accommodate what you want, and not break a sweat doing it. If you build an 800 hp pump gas motor, then put 7.5 psi boost to it, with an intercooler it will produce about an additional 60 percent more hp. That would get you what you want with insane off idle torque to boot.

Last edited by gregsdart; 07/20/14 12:31 PM.
Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: gregsdart] #1648559
07/20/14 12:33 PM
07/20/14 12:33 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 984
San Diego CA
6
65 Hemi Offline OP
super stock
65 Hemi  Offline OP
super stock
6

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 984
San Diego CA
Quote:

I would go with the B1Mc motor. It is easier to put a mild cam in it and add a blower to get the 1200 hp over the others. Cubes rule, blown or not. Heads likewise. The more power you want to make, the better they need to be. I am partial to screw type blowers. Whipple has sizes that will accommodate what you want, and not break a sweat doing it. If you build an 800 hp pump gas motor, then put 7.5 psi boost to it, with an intercooler it will produce about an additional 60 percent more hp. That would get you what you want with insane off idle torque to boot.



My issue is with a screw blower and B1s is the intake. It will cost $2500- $3000 just for the intake. Not that this is a low budget build but I would like to spend that money else where.


Doug

MOPAR or NO CAR!!!
1965 Dodge Coronet soon a 6.1 Hemi with a Magnson blower 810 hp on pump gas
1964 Dodge Polara 582" Indy alum Block 426-1RA heads,
1933 Plymouth PE all Steel, LT1 4L60E
1959 Plymouth Savoy 33,000 mile survivor
Old cars are never done. They are ongoing projects!
Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: 65 Hemi] #1648560
07/20/14 12:36 PM
07/20/14 12:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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MR_P_BODY  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Myself, I would do the 500" and hang 1 OR 2 turbos
on it for good street manners.. you could dial in
what pressure you want... low compression and if needed
you can run cheap fuel with water/alky injection
when in boost

Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: 65 Hemi] #1648561
07/20/14 12:44 PM
07/20/14 12:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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gregsdart  Offline
master

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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
If you like the look of turbos, those would be a great option on any of the motors you have. There is also the option of a procharger. those don't build the low speed torque of a twin screw or turbo, but make good power up top.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1648562
07/20/14 12:45 PM
07/20/14 12:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
M
MRMOPAR622 Offline
top fuel
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Sweet Home Alabama
I would go the Indy route as far as engine wise,why because they make and sell all the parts needed for which ever Forced Induction system you chose to use.


"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man" "T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: MRMOPAR622] #1648563
07/20/14 01:04 PM
07/20/14 01:04 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 984
San Diego CA
6
65 Hemi Offline OP
super stock
65 Hemi  Offline OP
super stock
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 984
San Diego CA
Quote:

I would go the Indy route as far as engine wise,why because they make and sell all the parts needed for which ever Forced Induction system you chose to use.



Are you thinking about a blower intake? That is the only thing that Indy makes for the indy heads. Right???


Doug

MOPAR or NO CAR!!!
1965 Dodge Coronet soon a 6.1 Hemi with a Magnson blower 810 hp on pump gas
1964 Dodge Polara 582" Indy alum Block 426-1RA heads,
1933 Plymouth PE all Steel, LT1 4L60E
1959 Plymouth Savoy 33,000 mile survivor
Old cars are never done. They are ongoing projects!
Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: 65 Hemi] #1648564
07/20/14 01:49 PM
07/20/14 01:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
M
MRMOPAR622 Offline
top fuel
MRMOPAR622  Offline
top fuel
M

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
Quote:

Quote:

I would go the Indy route as far as engine wise,why because they make and sell all the parts needed for which ever Forced Induction system you chose to use.



Are you thinking about a blower intake? That is the only thing that Indy makes for the indy heads. Right???



Go to www.indyheads.com and you can see what all they offer!


"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man" "T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: 65 Hemi] #1648565
07/20/14 01:51 PM
07/20/14 01:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,762
Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp Offline
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FastmOp  Offline
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Posts: 5,762
Hot Rod Ridge
It will be hard to ONLY make 1300hp with any of those combos.
I have a 500" -1 motor in my turbo car. And a Procharger on my SRT challenger. Both are diffrent animals.
It's hard to choose what type is better.
If you have the $$ and want it running soon then the Procharger is the way to go. It reuses your headers, and comes as a bolt on kit.
If you want to save a little $$ (not much) and can fab up your hot and cold plumbing, and don't mind all the little do dads that go along with a turbo. Then figure out the learning curve of what changes in the tune (everything) then a turbo is pretty neet.
I think if your going to stay carbarated then I would stick with a Procharger. And if your going to use a good stand alone EFI system like Fast or Holley then turbos start to shine.

As for what combo on the street I would go the 4.15 crank combo. Hooking the 4.5 crank could be difficult.

Last edited by FastmOp; 07/20/14 02:04 PM.
Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: MRMOPAR622] #1648566
07/20/14 02:13 PM
07/20/14 02:13 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 984
San Diego CA
6
65 Hemi Offline OP
super stock
65 Hemi  Offline OP
super stock
6

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 984
San Diego CA
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I would go the Indy route as far as engine wise,why because they make and sell all the parts needed for which ever Forced Induction system you chose to use.



Are you thinking about a blower intake? That is the only thing that Indy makes for the indy heads. Right???



Go to www.indyheads.com and you can see what all they offer!



I have been to their site. The only thing they have over the b1s is a blower manifold or am I overlooking something?


Doug

MOPAR or NO CAR!!!
1965 Dodge Coronet soon a 6.1 Hemi with a Magnson blower 810 hp on pump gas
1964 Dodge Polara 582" Indy alum Block 426-1RA heads,
1933 Plymouth PE all Steel, LT1 4L60E
1959 Plymouth Savoy 33,000 mile survivor
Old cars are never done. They are ongoing projects!
Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: FastmOp] #1648567
07/20/14 02:19 PM
07/20/14 02:19 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 984
San Diego CA
6
65 Hemi Offline OP
super stock
65 Hemi  Offline OP
super stock
6

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 984
San Diego CA
Quote:

It will be hard to ONLY make 1300hp with any of those combos.
I have a 500" -1 motor in my turbo car. And a Procharger on my SRT challenger. Both are diffrent animals.
It's hard to choose what type is better.
If you have the $$ and want it running soon then the Procharger is the way to go. It reuses your headers, and comes as a bolt on kit.
If you want to save a little $$ (not much) and can fab up your hot and cold plumbing, and don't mind all the little do dads that go along with a turbo. Then figure out the learning curve of what changes in the tune (everything) then a turbo is pretty neet.
I think if your going to stay carbarated then I would stick with a Procharger. And if your going to use a good stand alone EFI system like Fast or Holley then turbos start to shine.


As for what combo on the street I would go the 4.15 crank combo. Hooking the 4.5 crank could be difficult.




Thank you for your input. I have 2 four link cars and both are capable of big tires. So hooking should not be a problem. I'm looking to drive the car little more on the street but would like to run 5.0 index when I do race.


Doug

MOPAR or NO CAR!!!
1965 Dodge Coronet soon a 6.1 Hemi with a Magnson blower 810 hp on pump gas
1964 Dodge Polara 582" Indy alum Block 426-1RA heads,
1933 Plymouth PE all Steel, LT1 4L60E
1959 Plymouth Savoy 33,000 mile survivor
Old cars are never done. They are ongoing projects!
Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: 65 Hemi] #1648568
07/20/14 02:27 PM
07/20/14 02:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,762
Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp Offline
master
FastmOp  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,762
Hot Rod Ridge
If your willing to use EFI, then the Big B1 with twin 88's or 91's would do what you need, under 15psi I think. It might be hard to only run a 5 when it would be close'r to 3's

Or an F2 should feed it if you stay carb. But I would call Procharger directly to get there recomendation.

Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: FastmOp] #1648569
07/20/14 02:35 PM
07/20/14 02:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,525
Louisville, KY
E
E-Ticket Offline
master
E-Ticket  Offline
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E

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Posts: 2,525
Louisville, KY
How much HP can these world blocks take??


"Fat drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son......"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK-Dqj4fHmM
Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: FastmOp] #1648570
07/20/14 03:06 PM
07/20/14 03:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
master
72Swinger  Offline
master

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
The 540 with twin 91's and you will see Jesus for sure.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: 72Swinger] #1648571
07/20/14 04:34 PM
07/20/14 04:34 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Dragula  Offline
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Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Life begins at 20lbs of boost...

Me, simpilest way to get your project off the ground is too keep it simple. A procharger will do that.

If you go to a crank driven unit, you can run a stock water pump and keep most of you normal brackets and such...

Now if 1300hp is your limit, a 470 with an F1R pushed pretty hard will exceed that, meaning race gas or water injection. A 470 with an F2 will do that easy on pump gas...So a 4.15 crank and the best pistons & rings you can get. You start going above 520 cubes and you need a big air pump, and hp numbers get real big, but so do the expenses. A 572 can make +2000hp on pump gas....So cubes are really not needed. A good block heads, rods and pistons are...

Now I have researched this a bit, and New Era Racecraft I liked the best with a gear drive. You don't need a lot of cubes at 1300hp even on pump gas, but other custom things add up. So if a crank drive will fit with a split radiator set-up, or even a conventional side mount, they are easy to get going. Mopars like boost!

Boosted engines require better tech than some shops can provide, but read up on them. A well built engine will last...

http://www.neweraracecraft.com/engine-component-kits.html

(NER piston and ring packs) Stg 1P
Steve's development of piston and dish / dome profiles continues here at NER. As can be seen by the pictures on this site we use a multitude of crown designs, Flat tops, inverted domes, spherical dish, conical dish, button dish and a round dish. Different engines respond differently to the quench area we give it, the most noted is the BBCHRY's. As with most all of our items we sell, it comes from the school of hard knocks, there was a problem, we work to find the solution, we test it, then we sell it.

The other thing you will see in our pistons is they are hard anodized. This is the same procedure done to the Nitro pistons, it makes the pistons very tuff and it is NOT a coating like ceramic or Teflon skirts. Minor misses in tune up that would have lifted a ring land are totally eliminated, skirts are less appt to collapse and wont scuff, unless your tune up is so far out in right field you can't be seen.

Third thing is the ring pack. We sell all our pistons with Total Seal steel tops, Napier seconds and varying oil rings, depending on the application we may use a Dyke ring, 1/16 std style ring, .043" in the tops. Radial wall thickness may vary too but in general we are looking for a bullet proof ring pack so std D wall will apply in most cases. 4th we only use Nickel carbon steel alloy Pins in applications above 1200HP and below we use a high carbon Pin. No std cheap Pins that come with shelf pistons.

If you want the right pistons, the right crown design, and the right ring pack, you need NER's.

NER piston ring packs are $1,450.00 for most applications, and are made for us by J.E. and Diamond.

Last edited by Dragula; 07/20/14 04:40 PM.

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: Dragula] #1648572
07/20/14 05:14 PM
07/20/14 05:14 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 984
San Diego CA
6
65 Hemi Offline OP
super stock
65 Hemi  Offline OP
super stock
6

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 984
San Diego CA
Quote:

Life begins at 20lbs of boost...

Me, simpilest way to get your project off the ground is too keep it simple. A procharger will do that.

If you go to a crank driven unit, you can run a stock water pump and keep most of you normal brackets and such...

Now if 1300hp is your limit, a 470 with an F1R pushed pretty hard will exceed that, meaning race gas or water injection. A 470 with an F2 will do that easy on pump gas...So a 4.15 crank and the best pistons & rings you can get. You start going above 520 cubes and you need a big air pump, and hp numbers get real big, but so do the expenses. A 572 can make +2000hp on pump gas....So cubes are really not needed. A good block heads, rods and pistons are...

Now I have researched this a bit, and New Era Racecraft I liked the best with a gear drive. You don't need a lot of cubes at 1300hp even on pump gas, but other custom things add up. So if a crank drive will fit with a split radiator set-up, or even a conventional side mount, they are easy to get going. Mopars like boost!

Boosted engines require better tech than some shops can provide, but read up on them. A well built engine will last...

http://www.neweraracecraft.com/engine-component-kits.html

(NER piston and ring packs) Stg 1P
Steve's development of piston and dish / dome profiles continues here at NER. As can be seen by the pictures on this site we use a multitude of crown designs, Flat tops, inverted domes, spherical dish, conical dish, button dish and a round dish. Different engines respond differently to the quench area we give it, the most noted is the BBCHRY's. As with most all of our items we sell, it comes from the school of hard knocks, there was a problem, we work to find the solution, we test it, then we sell it.

The other thing you will see in our pistons is they are hard anodized. This is the same procedure done to the Nitro pistons, it makes the pistons very tuff and it is NOT a coating like ceramic or Teflon skirts. Minor misses in tune up that would have lifted a ring land are totally eliminated, skirts are less appt to collapse and wont scuff, unless your tune up is so far out in right field you can't be seen.

Third thing is the ring pack. We sell all our pistons with Total Seal steel tops, Napier seconds and varying oil rings, depending on the application we may use a Dyke ring, 1/16 std style ring, .043" in the tops. Radial wall thickness may vary too but in general we are looking for a bullet proof ring pack so std D wall will apply in most cases. 4th we only use Nickel carbon steel alloy Pins in applications above 1200HP and below we use a high carbon Pin. No std cheap Pins that come with shelf pistons.

If you want the right pistons, the right crown design, and the right ring pack, you need NER's.

NER piston ring packs are $1,450.00 for most applications, and are made for us by J.E. and Diamond.



Thank you for your input and help.
I have been leaning towards my 583 B1MC motor and changing pistons and cam and adding a F2 gear drive or side slinger with no inter cooler.


Doug

MOPAR or NO CAR!!!
1965 Dodge Coronet soon a 6.1 Hemi with a Magnson blower 810 hp on pump gas
1964 Dodge Polara 582" Indy alum Block 426-1RA heads,
1933 Plymouth PE all Steel, LT1 4L60E
1959 Plymouth Savoy 33,000 mile survivor
Old cars are never done. They are ongoing projects!
Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: 65 Hemi] #1648573
07/20/14 11:16 PM
07/20/14 11:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,646
Plymouth Meeting, PA
bigtimeauto Offline
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bigtimeauto  Offline
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Posts: 2,646
Plymouth Meeting, PA
I build a lot of 3600lb 8 second blow thru street cars. Pump gas on the street c-16 at the track. You can't go wrong with a blow thru f-2. Don't put to much stroke in it, its not a turbo.


BB, TT5,Procharged 3300lb Street Car 4.79/154
Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: bigtimeauto] #1648574
07/21/14 12:32 AM
07/21/14 12:32 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 984
San Diego CA
6
65 Hemi Offline OP
super stock
65 Hemi  Offline OP
super stock
6

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 984
San Diego CA
Quote:

I build a lot of 3600lb 8 second blow thru street cars. Pump gas on the street c-16 at the track. You can't go wrong with a blow thru f-2. Don't put to much stroke in it, its not a turbo.



Since I already have 2 motors with 4.50 strokes, will it hurt the performance or just not help?


Doug

MOPAR or NO CAR!!!
1965 Dodge Coronet soon a 6.1 Hemi with a Magnson blower 810 hp on pump gas
1964 Dodge Polara 582" Indy alum Block 426-1RA heads,
1933 Plymouth PE all Steel, LT1 4L60E
1959 Plymouth Savoy 33,000 mile survivor
Old cars are never done. They are ongoing projects!
Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: 65 Hemi] #1648575
07/21/14 12:45 AM
07/21/14 12:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,646
Plymouth Meeting, PA
bigtimeauto Offline
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bigtimeauto  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,646
Plymouth Meeting, PA
Quote:

Quote:

I build a lot of 3600lb 8 second blow thru street cars. Pump gas on the street c-16 at the track. You can't go wrong with a blow thru f-2. Don't put to much stroke in it, its not a turbo.



Since I already have 2 motors with 4.50 strokes, will it hurt the performance or just not help?




I'm not a fan of long strokes. I like short strokes, and big bores. piston speed boosted makes it tough to control the ring package.


BB, TT5,Procharged 3300lb Street Car 4.79/154
Re: How to make 1200-1300 streetable HP? [Re: bigtimeauto] #1648576
07/21/14 03:46 PM
07/21/14 03:46 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 984
San Diego CA
6
65 Hemi Offline OP
super stock
65 Hemi  Offline OP
super stock
6

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 984
San Diego CA
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I build a lot of 3600lb 8 second blow thru street cars. Pump gas on the street c-16 at the track. You can't go wrong with a blow thru f-2. Don't put to much stroke in it, its not a turbo.



Since I already have 2 motors with 4.50 strokes, will it hurt the performance or just not help?




I'm not a fan of long strokes. I like short strokes, and big bores. piston speed boosted makes it tough to control the ring package.



Thanks for your input


Doug

MOPAR or NO CAR!!!
1965 Dodge Coronet soon a 6.1 Hemi with a Magnson blower 810 hp on pump gas
1964 Dodge Polara 582" Indy alum Block 426-1RA heads,
1933 Plymouth PE all Steel, LT1 4L60E
1959 Plymouth Savoy 33,000 mile survivor
Old cars are never done. They are ongoing projects!
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