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340 not what I thought it would be... UPDATE!!!! #1642477
07/05/14 09:37 PM
07/05/14 09:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis Offline OP
mopar
Telvis  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
I may be expecting too much from my 340. It isn't slow but still just doesn't seem as strong as I thought it would be. I have tuned and re-tuned down to about as good as I think I am able.

Here's what I have:

1969 340 block, bored .030
Speedpro Forged pistons
Scat rods
Scat crank, everything internally balanced.
Lunati Voodoo 60402 cam
Edelbrock 60179 heads with ductile adjustable rockers
Edelbrock RPM performer intake
Holley 750 vac. secondary
MP billet mech advance distributor, curved at 22 initial 38 all in.
Doug's Headers with 2 1/2 dual x pipe exhaust.
904 transmission with low low gear set and Cheetah auto / manual valve body and Hughes 2500 rpm stall TC.
3:23 Sure Grip rear
255-60-15 tires in the rear.

The car will get up and go but it doesn't roast the tires like I thought it would. Matter of fact I can't get much of a burnout using the brake. Again, maybe I am expecting too much out the 340. I guess i had my hopes up for more. I'm a bit disappointed.

Am I expecting too much? Have I done something wrong with this build?

Last edited by Telvis; 07/20/14 02:17 PM.
Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: Telvis] #1642478
07/05/14 10:52 PM
07/05/14 10:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms  Offline
Mr Wizzard

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Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
Problem = 3:23 Sure Grip rear

Try some 3.55's or 3.91's, that'll wake it up

Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1642479
07/05/14 11:00 PM
07/05/14 11:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
A
ademon Offline
master
ademon  Offline
master
A

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
Was the cam degreed in? What is the compression ratio? Or the cranking psi. It should spin street tires easily with even a 3:23. What car is this in ?

Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: ademon] #1642480
07/05/14 11:10 PM
07/05/14 11:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
R
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
As said: what cranking compression. what vehicle. 38 deg at what RPM. Degree the cam (& timing chain error). EDIT I ain't a cam guy & that cam MAY be too much

Last edited by RapidRobert; 07/05/14 11:13 PM.

live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: Telvis] #1642481
07/05/14 11:14 PM
07/05/14 11:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,017
Benton, IL.
D
DaveRS23 Offline
Special needs idiot
DaveRS23  Offline
Special needs idiot
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,017
Benton, IL.
Before you give up on the engine, try some more gear and some more converter.

3.91s and a 3,000+ stall converter and watch the smoke roll.


Master, again and still
Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: DaveRS23] #1642482
07/05/14 11:23 PM
07/05/14 11:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
A
ademon Offline
master
ademon  Offline
master
A

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
Cam is mild I have the bb one in my near stock 383 it's a good cam with a lot of low and mid range! Are the secondary's opening?

Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: ademon] #1642483
07/05/14 11:29 PM
07/05/14 11:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406 Offline
I Live Here
RobX4406  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
Cam installed centerline? That's first up.

Where is the timing all in?

Hate those open chamber ede heads, wrong fricken part and why they ever made them... stupid. First thing I do when I get them is mill the chamber off.

Piston in the hole? Low static compression will hurt it, but that thing should cook the tires even on two barrels.

It's either an assembly issue or a tune up issue

Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: Telvis] #1642484
07/05/14 11:41 PM
07/05/14 11:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,028
NB, Canada
M
moparfan53 Offline
super stock
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super stock
M

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,028
NB, Canada
I am wondering about the 3.23 gears combined with 255 15" tire (even with "low low gear set"). Also, as already asked, what car? A body, B body?

Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: moparfan53] #1642485
07/05/14 11:57 PM
07/05/14 11:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis Offline OP
mopar
Telvis  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
It's at 73 challenger.
The pistons do come above block deck the standard height for a 69 340. I don't recall the exact numbers.
I built the motor and lined the timing marks up for the timing chain. They were perfectly aligned. I'm not knowledgeable as far as degreeing a cam goes. I have built 4 motors and installed at least another 4 or 5 timing chains. I have always aligned the marks
Not sure how to check if the secondaries are opening. I installed a Street Avenger because I don't have a lot of expertise tuning carbs. I have rebuilt a few but I am by no means a tuner.


That's King Weenie to you!
Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: Telvis] #1642486
07/06/14 12:07 AM
07/06/14 12:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
R
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
First thing I'd do is get the cranking compression number. That'd give you a good overview on how stout the long block is (+ maybe a leakdown check later). I've heard good things (on here) for that carb


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: RapidRobert] #1642487
07/06/14 12:15 AM
07/06/14 12:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,167
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Online content
Too Many Posts
slantzilla  Online Content
Too Many Posts

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Posts: 20,167
Park Forest, IL
Put a 3500 stall in it and you will be impressed.

2500 stall is not near enough.


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: slantzilla] #1642488
07/06/14 12:29 AM
07/06/14 12:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis Offline OP
mopar
Telvis  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
I don't think there's a problem with the motor itself. I will check the compression but I think it's likely a gear, torque converter or tuning issue. The motor is very strong. I guess I just expected too much. I had a 2007 SRT charger and eventually felt it wasn't enough power if that gives some insight. I think my expectations might be too high. I want to be able to roast the tires at will and still have good highway manners. I'm a bit OCD....


That's King Weenie to you!
Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: Telvis] #1642489
07/06/14 12:42 AM
07/06/14 12:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,638
PA
7
70Duster Offline
top fuel
70Duster  Offline
top fuel
7

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,638
PA
Hard to believe the gearing is the problem. My mild 360 with 3.23 gears will roast both rear tires without using the brake as long as you stay on the gas. Torque converter is 2000 RPM stall speed.

Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: Telvis] #1642490
07/06/14 12:59 AM
07/06/14 12:59 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
Still wishing...
Twostick  Offline
Still wishing...

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
OCD and didn't degree the cam?

I'm not familiar with that cam as far as duration @ .050, LSA etc but just lining up the dots on the gear set is a crap shoot at best with any aftermarket cam. If it is off even a few degrees especially if it is retarded, it can make a huge difference depending on the rest of the combo.

Kevin

Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: Telvis] #1642491
07/06/14 01:02 AM
07/06/14 01:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,453
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
Too Many Posts
autoxcuda  Offline
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Posts: 27,453
So Cal
Quote:

I don't think there's a problem with the motor itself. I will check the compression but I think it's likely a gear, torque converter or tuning issue. The motor is very strong. I guess I just expected too much. I had a 2007 SRT charger and eventually felt it wasn't enough power if that gives some insight. I think my expectations might be too high. I want to be able to roast the tires at will and still have good highway manners. I'm a bit OCD....




Did you expect this 340 motor in your 73 Challenger with 3.23 gear to be faster than that 2007 SRT Charger?

A 2007 SRT Charger is not a slouch. I belive that is a 0-60 in just under 5 seconds and low 13's 1/4 mile car. I don't believe your combo is going to get that.

IMHO, stoker are great for drivablility with power/tq. I wonder how many stock stroke Scat rotating assemblies they sell.

Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: Twostick] #1642492
07/06/14 01:07 AM
07/06/14 01:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,453
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
Too Many Posts
autoxcuda  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,453
So Cal
Quote:

OCD and didn't degree the cam?

I'm not familiar with that cam as far as duration @ .050, LSA etc but just lining up the dots on the gear set is a crap shoot at best with any aftermarket cam. If it is off even a few degrees especially if it is retarded, it can make a huge difference depending on the rest of the combo.

Kevin




This is the cam.

•Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 262/268
•Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 220/226
•Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .475/.494
•LSA/ICL: 112/108
•Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
•RPM Range: 1400-5800

Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: autoxcuda] #1642493
07/06/14 01:42 AM
07/06/14 01:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,167
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Online content
Too Many Posts
slantzilla  Online Content
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,167
Park Forest, IL
Does it have good throttle response? Are the secondaries opening on the carb?


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: Twostick] #1642494
07/06/14 01:53 AM
07/06/14 01:53 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis Offline OP
mopar
Telvis  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
I'm learning as I go here. I have never done anything more than align the marks to install a timing chain. I guess I must have screwed up because I never learned to properly degree a cam....Like I said...Still learning.

By no stretch do I expect the current 340 to equal my SRT. For all I know this motor may be great and I am just expecting too much. I am trying but I seem to be well behind the curve of most here on this site. I obviously have a lot more to learn. It's great to have such a wealth of experience and knowledge to fall back on for advice.

I am 49 years old, have worked on cars most of my life and I am constantly amazed at the knowledge and expertise of others on this site. It is humbling. I do body, paint, motor, suspension, interior and recently learned to build a transmission. I am still amazed at how much I don't know. This is a great resource and I appreciate all of the advice and help.


That's King Weenie to you!
Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: slantzilla] #1642495
07/06/14 01:58 AM
07/06/14 01:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis Offline OP
mopar
Telvis  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Quote:

Does it have good throttle response? Are the secondaries opening on the carb?




I don't know... Have no reason to think they aren't. How do you know if they open? The throttle response seems fine. When I say the motor seems sluggish maybe that is the incorrect description. It just doesn't seem to have the torque I expected. It has no hesitation.


That's King Weenie to you!
Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas? [Re: Telvis] #1642496
07/06/14 02:52 AM
07/06/14 02:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline
Striving for excellence

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
I'm able to hear the secondaries open on every functional 4 barrel carburetor. The distinctive wail/moan is sweet music!

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