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reading these plugs #1628656
06/04/14 05:21 PM
06/04/14 05:21 PM
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Crizila Offline OP
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NGK R5671A-9. I can get about 5 runs on a new set before the motor starts to miss above 4500. 408 blown application with water injection. If I clean them they are good again. Thinking about going to -8's or 7's and or running a little less water. Didn't have this problem when I was running cast iron heads. Seemed to crop up when I switched to aluminum heads? Thoughts??

8165618-plug1.jpg (259 downloads)

Fastest 300
Re: reading these plugs [Re: Crizila] #1628657
06/04/14 05:22 PM
06/04/14 05:22 PM
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Crizila Offline OP
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pic2

8165619-plug2.jpg (176 downloads)

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Re: reading these plugs [Re: Crizila] #1628658
06/04/14 05:23 PM
06/04/14 05:23 PM
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Crizila Offline OP
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pic3

8165622-plug3.jpg (198 downloads)

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Re: reading these plugs [Re: Crizila] #1628659
06/04/14 05:48 PM
06/04/14 05:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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In the first pic they are so rich you cant read them..
lean it down.. the other pics are flashed out so
I cant see them clearly
EDIT
isnt the 9 a cold plug and the 7 is hotter.. I can
never remember which way is hotter

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 06/04/14 06:05 PM.
Re: reading these plugs [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1628660
06/04/14 06:51 PM
06/04/14 06:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Quote:

In the first pic they are so rich you cant read them..
lean it down.. the other pics are flashed out so
I cant see them clearly
EDIT
isnt the 9 a cold plug and the 7 is hotter.. I can
never remember which way is hotter





Agreed about rich but how`s the idle circuit first and foremost and how does your wide band read idle, cruise and wfo............Yes Mike, 7=hot 9=cold...........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: reading these plugs [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1628661
06/04/14 08:00 PM
06/04/14 08:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
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Crizila Offline OP
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Crizila  Offline OP
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Quote:

In the first pic they are so rich you cant read them..
lean it down.. the other pics are flashed out so
I cant see them clearly
EDIT
isnt the 9 a cold plug and the 7 is hotter.. I can
never remember which way is hotter



9 = coldest. The smaller the number the hotter. Ordered up some -8's. I'm about 5 sizes over what the carb came with, so I will pull a couple of sizes out of it on all 4 corners and try to take some better pics. Guess I'm a little gun shy after melting some pistons. FYI, I'm testing on the street, so I have to run an exhaust system ( which the blower don't like ) and I have to idle to and from the house to get to me test site. All not too good for plug reading. Bought a wide band, but don't have it installed yet. The 2 tracks still open around here are so crowded most of the time that I just can't get enough passes in to do any real testing.


Fastest 300
Re: reading these plugs [Re: Crizila] #1628662
06/04/14 08:06 PM
06/04/14 08:06 PM
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Thumperdart Offline
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Install the w/b, drive the car then report #`s...............way easier than pretending you know what`s goin on in the combustion chamber.............


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: reading these plugs [Re: Thumperdart] #1628663
06/04/14 09:28 PM
06/04/14 09:28 PM
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Crizila Offline OP
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Quote:

Install the w/b, drive the car then report #`s...............way easier than pretending you know what`s goin on in the combustion chamber.............


Gee, wonder what everyone did before the wide band 02 sensor came along.


Fastest 300
Re: reading these plugs [Re: Crizila] #1628664
06/04/14 09:33 PM
06/04/14 09:33 PM
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Quicktree Offline
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you really can't tell crap if they have 5 runs on them

Re: reading these plugs [Re: Quicktree] #1628665
06/04/14 09:41 PM
06/04/14 09:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

you really can't tell crap if they have 5 runs on them




Those are FAT... period... but a hotter plug might
do a lot for it... no one needs to change plugs that
often... unless its a TF engine

Re: reading these plugs [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1628666
06/04/14 09:42 PM
06/04/14 09:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Quicktree Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

you really can't tell crap if they have 5 runs on them




Those are FAT... period... but a hotter plug might
do a lot for it... no one needs to change plugs that
often... unless its a TF engine



they could fat from the return road

Re: reading these plugs [Re: Quicktree] #1628667
06/04/14 09:58 PM
06/04/14 09:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

you really can't tell crap if they have 5 runs on them




Those are FAT... period... but a hotter plug might
do a lot for it... no one needs to change plugs that
often... unless its a TF engine



they could fat from the return road




Come on Tony... he gets 5 passes and they are shot
if its on the return road its DUMPING fuel.... but
it can be a weak ignition also... either way those
plugs are fowled

Re: reading these plugs [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1628668
06/04/14 10:55 PM
06/04/14 10:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline OP
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Ya, agree with most of what's been said here. First, been through the ignition system in it's entirety and it is solid. What I know for sure is I get about 5 runs on it and the performance drops off ( engine miss ). Runs good when it's hittin on all 8 with speeds in the 129 MPH range, so the A/F can't be too far off at WOT. Yes, I gotta idle to staging and back to my pit area after my run. No boost, no miss. I can clean a set of plugs and make them work good again. I don't run an inner cooler. I do run a alcohol / water injection system. Run a mix - about 35% alcohol - probably do screwy things to a W/B 02 reading? Think I will try to drop some jet sizes and maybe put in a smaller water injection jet to see if that will help. My system is adjustable. I have it set for full spray pressure at 15 lbs of boost and over. Could try slowing it down? Also going to try a 1 step hotter plug.


Fastest 300
Re: reading these plugs [Re: Crizila] #1628669
06/04/14 11:16 PM
06/04/14 11:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
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Thumperdart Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Install the w/b, drive the car then report #`s...............way easier than pretending you know what`s goin on in the combustion chamber.............


Gee, wonder what everyone did before the wide band 02 sensor came along.





Posted questions like yours.................. Thing is, you`re rich but you don`t know where otherwise you wouldn`t be askin..........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: reading these plugs [Re: Crizila] #1628670
06/04/14 11:25 PM
06/04/14 11:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Ya, agree with most of what's been said here. First, been through the ignition system in it's entirety and it is solid. What I know for sure is I get about 5 runs on it and the performance drops off ( engine miss ). Runs good when it's hittin on all 8 with speeds in the 129 MPH range, so the A/F can't be too far off at WOT. Yes, I gotta idle to staging and back to my pit area after my run. No boost, no miss. I can clean a set of plugs and make them work good again. I don't run an inner cooler. I do run a alcohol / water injection system. Run a mix - about 35% alcohol - probably do screwy things to a W/B 02 reading? Think I will try to drop some jet sizes and maybe put in a smaller water injection jet to see if that will help. My system is adjustable. I have it set for full spray pressure at 15 lbs of boost and over. Could try slowing it down? Also going to try a 1 step hotter plug.




Dont do a bunch of things together... do the plugs
and less water.. also whats the plug gap

Re: reading these plugs [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1628671
06/05/14 01:25 AM
06/05/14 01:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline OP
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Crizila  Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

Ya, agree with most of what's been said here. First, been through the ignition system in it's entirety and it is solid. What I know for sure is I get about 5 runs on it and the performance drops off ( engine miss ). Runs good when it's hittin on all 8 with speeds in the 129 MPH range, so the A/F can't be too far off at WOT. Yes, I gotta idle to staging and back to my pit area after my run. No boost, no miss. I can clean a set of plugs and make them work good again. I don't run an inner cooler. I do run a alcohol / water injection system. Run a mix - about 35% alcohol - probably do screwy things to a W/B 02 reading? Think I will try to drop some jet sizes and maybe put in a smaller water injection jet to see if that will help. My system is adjustable. I have it set for full spray pressure at 15 lbs of boost and over. Could try slowing it down? Also going to try a 1 step hotter plug.




Dont do a bunch of things together... do the plugs
and less water.. also whats the plug gap



Ya, the nice thing about doing the testing from home - I can do one change at a time and then go test. Made jet changes today and will test tomorrow. Send some fresh plug pics. Then do a test with less water, then with hotter plugs. My brother is sending me the alcohol correction factor program I will have to use if / when I install my wide band. .030" on the plug gap.


Fastest 300
Re: reading these plugs [Re: Crizila] #1628672
06/05/14 01:29 AM
06/05/14 01:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Quote:

Ya, agree with most of what's been said here. First, been through the ignition system in it's entirety and it is solid. What I know for sure is I get about 5 runs on it and the performance drops off ( engine miss ). Runs good when it's hittin on all 8 with speeds in the 129 MPH range, so the A/F can't be too far off at WOT. Yes, I gotta idle to staging and back to my pit area after my run. No boost, no miss. I can clean a set of plugs and make them work good again. I don't run an inner cooler. I do run a alcohol / water injection system. Run a mix - about 35% alcohol - probably do screwy things to a W/B 02 reading? Think I will try to drop some jet sizes and maybe put in a smaller water injection jet to see if that will help. My system is adjustable. I have it set for full spray pressure at 15 lbs of boost and over. Could try slowing it down? Also going to try a 1 step hotter plug.


Try leaning down the primary jets two sizes and richen up the secondarys two sizes or the primary power valve enrichment channel the same amount of volume that the two jets sizes smaller are, if your using a power valve in the front(if not jet the back up two) That should help keep the plugs cleaner while putting around in the pits and still safe at WOT


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: reading these plugs [Re: Cab_Burge] #1628673
06/05/14 02:50 AM
06/05/14 02:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Monte_Smith Offline
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North Alabama
If you are trying to read the plugs for power and proper mixture at WOT, you are just wasting your time the way you are doing it. The ONLY way plug reading works, is to make a power pull, kill the motor at the stripe and then read the plugs. Once you let it idle or drive it around, the plug reading is useless.

Monte

Re: reading these plugs [Re: Monte_Smith] #1628674
06/05/14 06:44 AM
06/05/14 06:44 AM
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Quicktree Offline
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Quote:

If you are trying to read the plugs for power and proper mixture at WOT, you are just wasting your time the way you are doing it. The ONLY way plug reading works, is to make a power pull, kill the motor at the stripe and then read the plugs. Once you let it idle or drive it around, the plug reading is useless.

Monte


thankyou

Re: reading these plugs [Re: Crizila] #1628675
06/05/14 08:03 AM
06/05/14 08:03 AM
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Arizona
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Chris'sBarracuda Offline
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Quote:


Ya, the nice thing about doing the testing from home - I can do one change at a time and then go test. Made jet changes today and will test tomorrow. Send some fresh plug pics. Then do a test with less water, then with hotter plugs. My brother is sending me the alcohol correction factor program I will have to use if / when I install my wide band. .030" on the plug gap.





Don't you live up around the 5000' mark there in Payson.??

I'm thinking that won't help you one bit testing up there and racing down here..

And.. What Monte says..



Chris..

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