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Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? #1616385
05/05/14 11:35 AM
05/05/14 11:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,953
Houston, Texas
TheOtherDodge Offline OP
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TheOtherDodge  Offline OP
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Houston, Texas
This is a revisit as I never got this issue resolved.

When I first turn the starter over, it cranks as if the battery is weak (or hot starting) barely turning the motor over. But once it makes the first revolution, it turns over fine.

It never fails to start but something isn't right!

Battery is in the bed, new starter (have tried other starters).

Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: TheOtherDodge] #1616386
05/05/14 11:42 AM
05/05/14 11:42 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Lots of things it could be...What have you checked so far?


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
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'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
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Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: Dragula] #1616387
05/05/14 12:10 PM
05/05/14 12:10 PM
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Posts: 632
MD-USA
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Dodgeguy101 Offline
mopar
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MD-USA
loose connection, too small a wire, bad ground.

Eventually it will find itself for you. Not trying to be a

smarta%%, but on the initial hit, it isn't making good contact, and after a second or two, it does, but it can't continue like that, it will do some damage. Just my
You say battery in the bed, where is the ground wire going, remember the body is resting on rubber mounts.

Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: Dodgeguy101] #1616388
05/05/14 12:21 PM
05/05/14 12:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,343
west palm beach, florida
modelmakerinc Offline
top fuel
modelmakerinc  Offline
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west palm beach, florida
ignition a little too advanced? whats your compression ratio?


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Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: modelmakerinc] #1616389
05/05/14 12:25 PM
05/05/14 12:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,953
Houston, Texas
TheOtherDodge Offline OP
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I have looked for loose wires/connections but haven't found one... The battery is grounded directly to the starter.

Compression is 9.1:1 and ignition is about 30 degrees.

Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: TheOtherDodge] #1616390
05/05/14 01:42 PM
05/05/14 01:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,145
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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Why is it that when guys ask members for help they can not supply more info to help the cause?
1. what gauge power wire and what length?
2. What size ground wire, gauge, and length?
3. Are you using a stock starter relay or after market? (I like the Ford ones.
4.what starter and when was maintenance done to it.
5. did you ever clean the surface where the starter bolts on.
6. Since you are grounding to the starter did you ever try going directly to the engine block.
7. Did you use a chassis ground too?


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: pittsburghracer] #1616391
05/05/14 01:50 PM
05/05/14 01:50 PM
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Posts: 5,762
Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp Offline
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I'd pull the plugs and see if it repeats the problem, and also to see if you strike water.

Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: pittsburghracer] #1616392
05/05/14 01:50 PM
05/05/14 01:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,629
Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
If you don't have a gear reduction starter on a high compression engine it's hard to get it cranking. Once it gets turning it's ok.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: pittsburghracer] #1616393
05/05/14 01:52 PM
05/05/14 01:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,602
westerly, ri. usa
4
440lebaron Offline
top fuel
440lebaron  Offline
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westerly, ri. usa
pull coil wire and try, most likely timing


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Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: FastmOp] #1616394
05/05/14 02:14 PM
05/05/14 02:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,953
Houston, Texas
TheOtherDodge Offline OP
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TheOtherDodge  Offline OP
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Houston, Texas
Why is it that when guys ask members for help they can not supply more info to help the cause?
1. what gauge power wire and what length? 00 gauge and about 10 feet
2. What size ground wire, gauge, and length? 00 and about 10 feet
3. Are you using a stock starter relay or after market? (I like the Ford ones) Stock
4.what starter and when was maintenance done to it. New starter off of a late model Durango. Tried my starter off the big block I had that worked fine on that car, but same issues with this truck so I want to rule out the starter.
5. did you ever clean the surface where the starter bolts on. Yes, I cleaned every contact surface.
6. Since you are grounding to the starter did you ever try going directly to the engine block. I have a ground from the block to the chassis as well as a steel plate motor mount on the driver's side that acts as a ground also.
7. Did you use a chassis ground too? Yes

Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: TheOtherDodge] #1616395
05/05/14 02:17 PM
05/05/14 02:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,953
Houston, Texas
TheOtherDodge Offline OP
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Houston, Texas
Fast: I doubt there are any fluids in the cylinder as it has done this for years. But maybe that is why it only ran in the high 9's!

Rick: I don't have high compression.

440: I will give that a try...

Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: TheOtherDodge] #1616396
05/05/14 02:42 PM
05/05/14 02:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,145
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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8. Did you ever have the battery load tested?
9. Did you ever check the amprege drawl with a meter on the starter while trying to start it?
10. did you ever hook up a charger to the battery and turn the charger on to the start setting to give it more amps/
11. If you put a real slow (1/2-2 amp) charger on for 24 hours how does it crank over.
12. With the sparkplugs removed how many foot pounds does it take to turn over the engine?


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: pittsburghracer] #1616397
05/05/14 07:43 PM
05/05/14 07:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,472
Overland Park, KS.
J
Joshs68 Offline
pro stock
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Overland Park, KS.
It really sounds like a bad ground. Could you temp a shorter ground off the battery to something just to test it?

Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: TheOtherDodge] #1616398
05/05/14 07:57 PM
05/05/14 07:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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See if your carb is dumping fuel while it sits.. that
can load up a cyl or two.. then start spinning

Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: 440lebaron] #1616399
05/06/14 01:16 AM
05/06/14 01:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,097
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
Quote:

pull coil wire and try, most likely timing


Quick and easy, way good


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1616400
05/06/14 12:32 PM
05/06/14 12:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,953
Houston, Texas
TheOtherDodge Offline OP
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Houston, Texas
I also have a ground from the battery to the bed...

I have grounds all over the place!

Also, this is FI, so no carb!

Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: TheOtherDodge] #1616401
05/06/14 12:44 PM
05/06/14 12:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Quote:

I also have a ground from the battery to the bed...

I have grounds all over the place!

Also, this is FI, so no carb!




We had this issue before... do a pressure drop test on
the fuel supply... I made a set up with a gauge on
both sides of a valve.. install it at the injector
rail... pressurize it then shut the valve and watch
the pressure to see which end is leaking... if its
the injectors then its going into the open cyls

Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: TheOtherDodge] #1616402
05/06/14 02:16 PM
05/06/14 02:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,031
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline
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my car developed the same issue when I moved the ground from the frame to the engine block using 0 gage multi-strand welding wire(battery in truck). I just removed a mopar mini-tq starter and installed a new promaster xs. haven't tried it yet, i'll let ya know, but I think its in the ground.

Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1616403
05/06/14 03:19 PM
05/06/14 03:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,953
Houston, Texas
TheOtherDodge Offline OP
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Houston, Texas
Mr P: Since I have a switch that turns on the ignition/computer and fuel pump seperately, I can try to start the truck for a few seconds to "clean out any fuel" that may be accumulating as you are suspecting. Without the fuel pump on, the rails, injectors and cylinders should now be clean of fuel. I will wait a fuel hours and try again.

It acts as if it is a ground problem or loose connection or too much timing... Except, as I mentioned before, when I first try to start, it turns over slowly. But after the initial try, if I turn the key to off, then back to try and start it, it turns over easily.

Maybe I will make a vid/sound clip this evening.

Re: Initial hard to crank over but then turns over good...? [Re: TheOtherDodge] #1616404
05/06/14 03:30 PM
05/06/14 03:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
It does sound like a ground issue.. but we had the
same thing on production cars that was a injector issue

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