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Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
#160589
12/03/08 05:33 PM
12/03/08 05:33 PM
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Last edited by Kev_73_Missile; 12/28/08 05:40 PM.
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: unknown]
#160595
12/03/08 08:26 PM
12/03/08 08:26 PM
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EMAIL From Joe earlier Today. Kevin, I will take a look and spend some time with it(questions) tonight and tomorrow. Friday morning at 5AM Lynn and I are headed to the airport for our Florida trip. (PRI Show) I will have a computer with me so I should be able to take a look and try to answer some of the questions. I might get a bit behind but if the group is patient, I will be totally caught up by the time I get home the weekend of 12/13 – 12/14. Joe P. ---------------------------------------------------------------------  
Last edited by Kev_73_Missile; 12/03/08 08:27 PM.
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
#160596
12/03/08 09:21 PM
12/03/08 09:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,168
Wichita Kansas
B Dartman
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Joe, 1) What are your thoughts on today's highly sponsored driven Pro category drag racing culture? 2) Is it where you would have hoped to see the sport grown to or does it miss the mark that your generation of racers set forth with in the 70's? 3) Today the Pro categories are thinning in numbers and suspect the economy could in fact cripple current sponsorships....what were common numbers of cars that would show up to qualify in those days Thanks for taking the time for some questions us "kids" with inquiring minds would find fascinating to know!! 
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: sunroofgtx]
#160598
12/03/08 09:36 PM
12/03/08 09:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Yes, the Missile raced the S&M Duster on many occasions in the 70's. You have got to remember that there was the Missile Challenger 1970 and 1971, the Missile Cuda 1972, and finally the Missile Duster late 1972 and 1973. I was working for Mike Fons (Rod Shop 1971 and 1972) when the Challenger and the Cuda were racing so I was pretty focused on the Fonsmobile. With the Duster, I do remember beating the S&M cars many times (1973) at both IHRA and NHRA events. But, in those days the bulk of the weekly race programs revolved around the match race world. It would not be unusual for a team to match race 2 or 3 times a week. Unfortunately, we (the Missile) could not do that. Our primary job was to participate in the world of R&D for Chrysler Corporation Performance Parts. Generally speaking, we spent 5 days a week testing. During the winter months the venue was California or Florida. Spring, summer, and fall was Milan Michigan. Match racing was just not part of our program. I do believe that the Missile Cuda was allowed to participate in the United States Racing Team program - a field of 16 selected Pro Stock cars that put on a mid-week match race at about 10 different tracks in 1972 - but that was pretty much it.
Now, to answer your "loaded" question - do I think the Missile will ever beat the S&M car again? Heck yea - sorry Fred - it will happen, but it is going to be a real see-saw all season. Those two pieces of history going at it are going to be lots of fun for everyone.
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: Bob_Coomer]
#160599
12/03/08 10:55 PM
12/03/08 10:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Howell, MI
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The most memorable race of my career happened when I worked for Mike Fons. It was October 1971 and we were headed to the World Finals in Amarillo Texas.
On the Tuesday prior to leaving for the race, Mike took the car to Milan for a final test. While there, he failed to hook up the wheelie bars (I was back at his house getting stuff ready for the trip to Texas) and managed to put the car literally on the rear bumper. It didn't go over but when it came down he managed to bend or break everything under the sun. The front wheels were pointed east and west, the oil pan smashed to pieces and most importantly, the crank was broken in the engine. I knew right then that I would not be getting much sleep for the next few days. That night we pulled the motor, disassembled the car, and Mike made LOTS of phone calls. I think it was Dave Koeffel that called Gary Ostrich in Nevada Iowa to bring everything in his shop (especially a crank) so that we could rebuild the engine. On Wednesday, Gary was IN THE DRIVEWAY of Mike's house rebuilding the engine, Mike and I attended to the chassis repairs and on we went. By late Wednesday night we had reinstalled the engine (newly rebuilt), finished the chassis repairs, loaded the truck and off we went.
You would think that was a good enough story right there but you would be very, very wrong. Around 3 AM just outside of Niles Michigan the engine decided to hole a piston and suck some valves. Being racers, for some unknown reason, we had a spare piston, rod, valves, for that old 383 engine that powered that piece of junk truck we had. We pulled into a beat up service station and pulled the oil pan, intake, and heads. We spent the next few hours patching that piece of junk back together and once again off we went.
End of story - no stinking way.
Heading southwest we now were just outside of Cuba MO - it was after dark on Thursday evening and all of a sudden that stupid truck pitched the left rear set of dual wheels/tires. Yep, they were gone... Fons just shrugs and says well we have a spare hub assembly with us ( I think old Mike just KNEW this was going to happen). Two hours later and with grease up to my elbows (still no sleep since Monday night) - off we go again. Finally we arrive in Amarillo on Friday.
We go ahead a qualify somewhere in the field - there is just no way I can remember those stats but we were solidly in the field. Come eliminations on Sunday things are plenty hectic. Round after round we managed to hold our own. Finally we make it to the Semi-final round and who are we up against but Ronnie Sox. Well, I might just as well go pack up the truck because there is no way we are going to beat the formidable S&M team. Wrong again - Mike pulled one out and we are in the final against none other than Herb McCandless in the other S&M car.
Now two things happen that sort of fit with the rest of the week. 1st, the Mallory mag we had been using decided to take a dump. We don't have a spare. Now what? To the rescue comes Donnie Carlton with a Vertex mag. We didn't quite have the wiring set up for a Vertex so I think we managed to run a wire back into the cockpit with a bare end that Mike could use to ground out the mag in order to kill the engine. The other thing that happened was that in the rush to service the car for the final round I was burned with the superheated steam from the engine. It seems that the crowd was pushing in to get a better look and someone saw that the pressure release lever on the radiator cap was up so they pushed it back down. I always released the pressure prior to pulling off the upper hose to cool the car with fresh water. When I pulled off the hose, out came the superheated steam and burnt the living daylights out of my arm and the side of my face. I was so pumped up with making the final round that I didn't feel the pain for a couple of hours but I paid for it later...
The final round was just perfect, Fons cut a great light and walked away with the Wally. What a day - what a week... Hey, we were the World Champs!!!
But - the story is not over. We weren't home - yet...
We left Amarillo around 11 am the next morning heading back to Michigan. Mike Koran had attended the race for the Missile team and we decided to caravan back home together. Off we go until sometime that night - again outside Cuba MO, we AGAIN pitched yet another set of rear dual wheel/tires. Another broken hub. Do you see a pattern here??? Another two hours with grease up to my elbows and holding a flashlight in my teeth got Mike and I back on the road. This time, we make it all the way back to Michigan without incident.
I think I was pretty tired when we got there because I don't remember much after that for at least 3 days. Oh, it took about a week to wash all the grease off my arms and out of my clothing. I believe good old mom was still taking care of the laundry duties or I would have been awful smelly and grimey for a long time aferwards...
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: sunroofgtx]
#160601
12/04/08 04:37 AM
12/04/08 04:37 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,117
Cleveland Ohio
10secGTX
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Quote:
Did the Motown Missle ever race the Sox Duster in the 70's ? Did it win ? Will it ever win in the future ? 
Sad no one has a sense of humor
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160605
12/04/08 11:12 AM
12/04/08 11:12 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,752
detroit area
moderncylinder
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detroit area
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i have a question that may shed some light on some things... spehar never likes to talk about old stuff,, i think he thinks its outdated,, but i dont know..
in talking to ted i believe he said that the missle was the first car to have titanium spring retainers on it and that before that they had to change the retainers every other run or something,, runing aluminum ones.
what innovations or technological advances did you see or partake in with the missle's early pro stock cars that is still around today, changed the course of racing, by making things faster or last longer, or is still used in average bracket cars to pro stock cars of current day.
jeff
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: blownzoom440]
#160606
12/04/08 06:44 PM
12/04/08 06:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Quote:
i always pictured the 60's,70's to be the most creative for dragracing.do you feel this way?
if rules would allow what other mods/tricks would you have liked to try?
The 60's and 70's were great years in racing. If you worked hard and had good resources (money, time, brainpower, connections) then great advances were yours for the taking. The funny thing is that this holds true today as well.
We were fortunate to be in the right place at the right time. When you look at the group of brilliant people that came from Chrysler Engineering (Hoover, Maxwell, Coddington, Adam, Killen, Baumann) and the crew that built the engines (Spehar and Bartush) then it is clear that Carlton, Oldfield, and I had it made. We had wonderful equipment, great support, and since we were all pretty young, we had boundless energy.
Our job was to make the development of the Missile an ongoing design of experiments (DOE). Everything was planned out in advance for our test program. Everything was well orchestrated from the engine room to car prep to track test plans and on and on. We were in the business of developing technology for use by all the Mopar teams. If we learned that something worked - it was passed on. If we learned that something was a turkey - everyone knew it.
When it comes to answering your question about what we would have liked to try I really don't have a good answer. We tried nearly everything that the technology of the day would allow. If that collective brainpower thought something was possible we planned it out and gave it our best shot.
Today's teams do the same thing. We are now blessed with materials, processes, and techniques that just were not there 35 years ago. The teams of today use all the tools that are available just like we did.
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160608
12/04/08 07:13 PM
12/04/08 07:13 PM
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Anonymous
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VERY kool stuff... But lets compare 1973 was THEN 
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
#160609
12/04/08 07:15 PM
12/04/08 07:15 PM
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
#160610
12/04/08 08:38 PM
12/04/08 08:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 633
NY/NJ
DV8
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NY/NJ
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Great stories & times but I'm suprised at your ages back then that none of you were in Vietnam during that period?
Steve
"The function of man is to live, not exist..."
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: Billy B Bad]
#160612
12/04/08 11:16 PM
12/04/08 11:16 PM
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Akron Arlen Cuda. I agree this will be a great place to also share pics of these cars. 
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
#160613
12/04/08 11:49 PM
12/04/08 11:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,541
In Limbo
Billy B Bad
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I Live Here
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Quote:
Akron Arlen Cuda.
I agree this will be a great place to also share pics of these cars.
Arlen is the guy I have got to know (borrowed photo).
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: Billy B Bad]
#160614
12/05/08 10:45 AM
12/05/08 10:45 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,752
detroit area
moderncylinder
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detroit area
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arlen cam back to racing about 10 years ago,, i did his heads and manifold work for super stock,, he raced a 65 car in nostalgia super stock at the nsca/nmca races that belonged to tony depillo.
i remember arlen telling me back when,, 72 or something,, they had a meeting of pro stock guys with nhra,, the hemi cars were the ones to beat and one of the chevy, pontiac, or something,, a gm guy said they needed to put weight on the hemi cars,,, that all he was looking for was a fair advantage.. after that they put the weight on.
i never talk to older guys about days gone by,, spehar is supposed to stop by my shop today, and george delorean stops by here every other saturday or so,, i think im going to start getting some history lessons,, though i must say,,, spehar,,, delorean,, and even maskin do not like to sit around and talk about the past.
jeff
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: unknown]
#160619
12/09/08 10:15 AM
12/09/08 10:15 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
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Howell, MI
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Quote:
Hey Joe , You said Don Carltons shop was close to Mike Fons Shop, Where. I know Mikes old shop was in Troy, MI. A old freind of Mike and Kenny told me they use to watch movies out the back door of his shop, coming from a drive in theater. Are you involved in racing any more? Oh yea, I here there might be a 70s pro-stock class forming, what do you think  More to come, now back to work on my car 
Our shop (Carlton's) was on a street called Elmwood in Troy MI. It was just 2 doors down from where Trick Titanium now resides. Fons' shop was about 2 miles away on a street that paralleled I-75. When I worked for Fons that was the shop we had moved to when we moved the shop from his house to a commercial building.
Currently I spend a small bit of time doing autocross and road racing with occasional trips to the drag strip. Everything I do comes out of the general "fund" and living and working in the Detroit area is real hit or miss right now.
I know about the possibility of a 70's class forming in Pro Stock and it would be fun to see. With the economy in the dumper right now it may or may not be able to get a foothold. Also, for safety and cost reasons there will need to be some deep thought put into the structure / organization of this series. Maybe it should be structured like the United States Racing Team was back in 1972 with 16 cars (4 Chevys, 4 Fords, 4 Dodges, 4 Plymouths)???
Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe Pappas (Missile Team) Q & A Thread
[Re: B Dartman]
#160620
12/11/08 07:58 PM
12/11/08 07:58 PM
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Hey Joe, Hope all is going well on your vaction/trip to Fla. Sure you have been super busy.  Had a member ask on another thread about the 72 Cuda. Where it is now, why still sitting unrestored, any other info about the past few years ect. of its "under 3' of snow" life. Or possibly even Stewart could fill us in, as I am sure he knows the facts, ect. 
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Re: Official Joe Pappas (Missile Team) Q & A Thread
#160624
12/13/08 07:23 PM
12/13/08 07:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 28
columbus oh
moparrob
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Hey Joe, REALLY glad you have decided to join our little crazy club. What type of HP do you feel the HEMI P/S cars were making in the 72-74 seasons.? If Fons ran a 8.550 in 1975 @ 2250lbs. He must have been getting around 750HP+. 
Rule #1 - - - MOPAR or NO car
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: B Dartman]
#160625
12/14/08 11:14 AM
12/14/08 11:14 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Quote:
Joe,
1) What are your thoughts on today's highly sponsored driven Pro category drag racing culture?
2) Is it where you would have hoped to see the sport grown to or does it miss the mark that your generation of racers set forth with in the 70's?
3) Today the Pro categories are thinning in numbers and suspect the economy could in fact cripple current sponsorships....what were common numbers of cars that would show up to qualify in those days
Thanks for taking the time for some questions us "kids" with inquiring minds would find fascinating to know!!
1) I think today's sponsorship environment is just the evolution of what we experienced in the 70's. If you look back to those times, we (the Missile crew) had Chrysler Mopar Parts as our primary sponsor with associate sponsorships from Lee Eliminators, Trick Titanium, Fenton, etc. Certainly the dollars involved in those days were much different than today but none the less they were needed. The primary difference we had was Chrysler's money. They funded just about everything for us from salaries to parts. The top teams of the era had backing in one way or another from the factories. Either they were given parts or parts and cash. The regional PS racer of the day pretty much had to look for help from local entities like dealers or speed shops for help. Today, the costs of running in the pro categories is astronomical. To show up and be competitive takes tons of talent and tons of cash. Often, talent is more plentiful than the cash. Thus the need for the deep pocket sponsorships. I don't have a crystal ball that would predict the "look" of today without the big sponsorship dollars but things would most probably be downsized from what we now see.
2) Yes, I like what I see in the Pro ranks today. The technologies being utilized by these racers is really amazing and like I said above is the evolution of what was pioneered in the 70's. The impact of television has really helped but as everyone knows, drag racing is really tough to package into a 2-3 hour segment like NASCAR so there is an "impact" loss for the viewer. Drag racing needs to be experienced in person. The sights, sounds, and smells are what capture the excitement. If the industry can figure out how to make it more affordable to take your family out to the track then maybe it can grow even more and launch the next generation of racers.
3) Today we qualify 16 cars to make up the field in the pro ranks. In the 70's the fields were typically made up of 32 cars. I am not sure of the dates when this changed but it makes a lot of sense. I don't remember how many cars would be sent home as non qualifiers in those days but I would guess that there were not too many. The fact of the matter was the spread between the #1 qualifier and the #32 qualifier could have been as much as a full second or more!!! Today, these classes see the full field qualify within a couple of hundredths!
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: moderncylinder]
#160626
12/14/08 11:51 AM
12/14/08 11:51 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
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Howell, MI
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Quote:
i have a question that may shed some light on some things... spehar never likes to talk about old stuff,, i think he thinks its outdated,, but i dont know..
in talking to ted i believe he said that the missle was the first car to have titanium spring retainers on it and that before that they had to change the retainers every other run or something,, runing aluminum ones.
what innovations or technological advances did you see or partake in with the missle's early pro stock cars that is still around today, changed the course of racing, by making things faster or last longer, or is still used in average bracket cars to pro stock cars of current day.
jeff
I see Ted several times a year and have known him for nearly 40 years so the things we talk about and how we talk about old and new stuff may be a little different than your experience.
Anyway, getting back to your question on innovations the things I remember the most was the use of titanium not only in the valve spring retainers but throughout the car. We used titanium to replace steel for nuts, bolts, fabricated assemblies, brackets, you name it...
Another thing that sticks in my mind was that Ron Killen created our crank trigger ignition. Those early pieces were machined to his specificatons and we utilized this system on all the engines. We typically had a 10 degree start position and once the engine fired we would throw a switch to our "run" position for full advance.
Ron also set us up with data aquistion equipment for the Missile. I really do not think that anyone used this stuff back then. To say the least it was cumbersome. We had a couple of wire bundles that had to be at least an inch in diameter coming from the recorder that was in the trunk into the cockpit to another box which I think acted like a big splitter. From there the wires went out to the transducers located around the vehicle to pick up data we wanted to monitor. I think we could only record 6 items per run so this was a pretty crude setup. After each run, we removed the tape from the recorder in the trunk (reel to reel) and played it back in Killen's truck plotting it out on a strip chart recorder. Hoover, Coddington, Adam, and Killen would then sort out what we did with corrections for weather. Crude but very effective...
Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
#160629
12/16/08 08:21 PM
12/16/08 08:21 PM
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Anonymous
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I spoke with Joe for 15-20 mins on Monday night. They are recouping from the trip to Fla.(PRI SHOW) He will be back in full swing again very soon.
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
#160630
12/17/08 10:08 PM
12/17/08 10:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Quote:
Thanks again Joe for sharing all these great stories & knowledge with us.
I still want to hear the bologna & ketchup story again.
That would be a funny one to share with all these guys. 
Kevin,
I'm not sure that I can tell the bologna & ketchup story as well as Dick O but here goes.
Anyone who knew Donnie Carlton understood that he had certain likes and dislikes when it came to food. Yet, Donnie's tastes were fairly simple and straight forward. Also, take into context the times - back in the 70's Pro-Stock teams DID NOT have chefs and hospitality transporters following them around. IF we ate lunch at the track you knew that it would be fast, simple, and something that Donnie liked. Thus, on the occasions we actually got something to eat, Donnie splurged on his favorite - white bread, balogna, and his favorite condiment - ketchup. Hey, Donnie was the boss and if the boss wants balogna and ketchup sandwiches then EVERYBODY got balogna and ketchup sandwiches.
Another of Donnie's food quirks was that he ALWAYS would have a bacon, lettuce, and tomato sandwich for breakfast - ALWAYS!!! It really should not be a big deal but you cannot believe the hard time he got from countless waitresses and restaurants in those years. When they refused to grant his wish, he would simply order an order of toast, an order of bacon, some lettuce, some tomato, and a small cup of mayo and build his own!!! That worked for Donnie but angered many a waitress and cook. We never got tossed from any restaurants for that but we got plenty of ugly stares... What usually got us tossed from a restaurant was Dick O going behind the counter and helping himself to the coffee. Sometimes the service in these places was less than stellar and we had to take matters into our own hands. For some unknown reason, certain restaurants took offense to our "self serve" methods. Usually they asked that we NEVER come back but a few showed us the door right then... Some folks just can't take a joke...
Joe
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: Billy B Bad]
#160632
12/22/08 10:07 PM
12/22/08 10:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Quote:
I was born in 1968, so these cars that I love I never got to see run in there day.
When I did get to see drag racing it was Bob Glidden in a Thunder bird.
Anyway, I got to learn and found a love for the Missile as well as few others over the years by reading and listening to stories.
The "Wire Car" was the 1st one I ever read about and found myself wanting to know more and more about Don Carlton and who he was and all the history.
I am lucky to know one former NHRA drag racer from years ago and hearing his stories is a treat.
I try to read what I can about other racers as much as I can. My current study Is Billy "The Kid" Stepp. Could you share any stories about racing The Kid or Akron Arlen (that's if you guys ever did of course).
Please keep telling of the stories and maybe share pictures if you wouldn't mind. For me its like being there and seeing & Hearing it firsthand. To me, those were the days of drag racing.
Thanks for joining and be sure to stick around, allot of fun guys here.
It never ceases to amaze me that folks like yourself are so interested in what we all did so many years ago. Like so many young racers of today, we were just trying to make a living (well, maybe have a bit of fun along the way too).
Getting to your question, yes, we did race against both Billy Stepp and Arlan Vanke many times. In fact, at one point in his driving career, Don Carlton drove one of Billy's cars.
When it comes to Billy - the stories I have to tell would best be told in private. What I can say it that he was a very likeable guy, but never, never, make him angry. Enough said.
Arlan Vanke was then and is today one of the neatest guys you will ever want to meet. That guy is the essence of "cool". Whenever I see him I always call him DAD and ask if I am still in the will. Arlan has more stories to tell than any person on earth and every one of them is priceless. In October, Arlan, Ted Spehar, Dave Kanners, and I went to spend a day with Mike Fons at his home near Houghton Lake Michigan. It was a day to remember! Story after story rolled off and it was much like 35 years ago after a day at the track where the stories never ended... Priceless.
To remember specific races against Arlan is tough but needless to say he was a fierce competitor and you had better be ready or he would get you!
Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: moderncylinder]
#160633
12/22/08 10:18 PM
12/22/08 10:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Quote:
arlen cam back to racing about 10 years ago,, i did his heads and manifold work for super stock,, he raced a 65 car in nostalgia super stock at the nsca/nmca races that belonged to tony depillo.
i remember arlen telling me back when,, 72 or something,, they had a meeting of pro stock guys with nhra,, the hemi cars were the ones to beat and one of the chevy, pontiac, or something,, a gm guy said they needed to put weight on the hemi cars,,, that all he was looking for was a fair advantage.. after that they put the weight on.
i never talk to older guys about days gone by,, spehar is supposed to stop by my shop today, and george delorean stops by here every other saturday or so,, i think im going to start getting some history lessons,, though i must say,,, spehar,,, delorean,, and even maskin do not like to sit around and talk about the past.
jeff
Jeff,
Once guys like Ted Spehar and George Delorean get to know you the information / stories flow. I have known both these guys for the best part of 35 to 40 years and they are treasure chests of knowledge and experience that is unmatched anywhere. Richard Maskin is very quiet and reserved and always has been. Dave Kanners knows Richard very well and was his partner on the Maskin & Kanners Pro Stock Hornet. Dave has always spoken highly of Richard but I never got to know Richard very well.
Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe Pappas (Missile Team) Q & A Thread
#160635
12/22/08 10:45 PM
12/22/08 10:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Quote:
Hey Joe,
Hope all is going well on your vaction/trip to Fla. Sure you have been super busy.
Had a member ask on another thread about the 72 Cuda. Where it is now, why still sitting unrestored, any other info about the past few years ect. of its "under 3' of snow" life.
Or possibly even Stewart could fill us in, as I am sure he knows the facts, ect.
Kevin,
The '72 Cuda is in Canada and is owned by a fella named Mark. I won't reveal his last name as I have not asked his permission to do so. Needless to say, the car is in Canada and sadly it has been sitting outside for many years under a tarp. Dick Oldfield went up there a couple of winters ago with his nephew and looked the car over and took large number of photographs. It is in sad shape. There is a lot of deterioration that a mild cosmetic restoration will not come close to fixing. Over the years, Dick has tried to convince Mark to sell the car to someone with the financial means to properly restore the car to it's proper level but Mark has remained adamant that he wants to do this himself. Given today's costs it would not be unreasonable to need to spend $120K to $175K to make this car correct again (my estimation). I certainly hope that if Mark takes this on that he can do it correctly and give that very special car the total restoration it deserves.
Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: ASA1711]
#160638
12/22/08 11:16 PM
12/22/08 11:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Quote:
Joe,
Back in the day, considering that The Missile was the Chrysler house team what was the relationship with the other Pro Stock teams like, ie; S&M, Landy, Jenkins, etc.?
You are right that the Missile team was the Chrysler "house" team. We did the R&D and passed information on to the other Chrysler Pro Stock teams through the Chrysler race group channels. When it came to the other Chrysler teams we had a great relationship. We all wanted Chrysler to win and if we could not do it ourselves, we were just as happy when one of the other Chysler teams scored the W. Ronnie Sox, Buddy Martin, Dick Landy, Butch Leal, Bill Bagshaw, Mike Fons, Irv Berringhaus, Don Grothier, and all the other Chrysler teams were first class folks. We worked hard and we played hard - that is just what we did.
The Ford, Chevy, and AMC teams were competitors but we partied just as hard with them as we did with the Chrysler guys. You have got to remember that we ALL traveled together and raced together about 10 months a year. We were like a traveling automotive circus act (don't throw stones at my analogy guys). The racing teams were all very close. We came out of the Detroit area and there were several teams right in our area - Fons, Wally Booth, Maskin & Kanners to name a few. We were friends then and still are today. I regularly see Dave Kanners and his wife Sue for dinner. Wally Booth gets his hair cuts from the same barber I have been going to for the last 28 years (yes, Wally and I still have some hair to cut!).
Our racing was serious but our friendships were just as serious. We all helped each other at the track and off the track.
Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe Pappas (Missile Team) Q & A Thread
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160639
12/23/08 10:00 AM
12/23/08 10:00 AM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Hey Joe,
Hope all is going well on your vaction/trip to Fla. Sure you have been super busy.
Had a member ask on another thread about the 72 Cuda. Where it is now, why still sitting unrestored, any other info about the past few years ect. of its "under 3' of snow" life.
Or possibly even Stewart could fill us in, as I am sure he knows the facts, ect.
Kevin,
The '72 Cuda is in Canada and is owned by a fella named Mark. I won't reveal his last name as I have not asked his permission to do so. Needless to say, the car is in Canada and sadly it has been sitting outside for many years under a tarp. Dick Oldfield went up there a couple of winters ago with his nephew and looked the car over and took large number of photographs. It is in sad shape. There is a lot of deterioration that a mild cosmetic restoration will not come close to fixing. Over the years, Dick has tried to convince Mark to sell the car to someone with the financial means to properly restore the car to it's proper level but Mark has remained adamant that he wants to do this himself. Given today's costs it would not be unreasonable to need to spend $120K to $175K to make this car correct again (my estimation). I certainly hope that if Mark takes this on that he can do it correctly and give that very special car the total restoration it deserves.
Joe Pappas
Joe, & All other Members.
Mark (Canada) was at the AllHemi in Ohio this past summer. I did not speak to him directly, but I did hear him tell a few people that the Cuda was being sent to a friend in Ga. to do a total restoration
The guy doing the restoration, had become some sort of "partner" in the Cuda, and he was suppling the $$$$ & labor to do the resto.
Anyone else heard or know of any info on the Ga. resto.??? 
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160642
12/25/08 08:32 PM
12/25/08 08:32 PM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Photo of the Final Round - Fons vs Sox
Stewart,
Did you notice the guy in the Rod Shop shirt standing behind Fons' car? Yep, that's right - it is me. Quite a day... Beat Ronnie in the semi and Herb in the final.
Joe Pappas
I could barely see anything it said..
Here's a blow-up
No Fred. 
A blow - up picture
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
#160643
12/25/08 09:02 PM
12/25/08 09:02 PM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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So there has to be a story associated with this picture...
Were you already with Carlton, or still with Fons at this time.?
Any idea who the guy behind the car is.? Kenny?
Last edited by Kev_73_Missile; 12/25/08 09:02 PM.
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160648
12/25/08 10:10 PM
12/25/08 10:10 PM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Alot of us were only 8=9=10 back in 71-72
Can we play the name game with this picture.
Kevin,
You must think my eyesight is a lot better than it is... That photo was taken on the steps of the capital just about the time the US Racing Team was officially kicked off. If you blow it up so blind me can see the faces, I will try to put all the names with those faces. Remember - I wear bifocals...
"blind" Joe Pappas
Best I can do.
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
#160649
12/25/08 11:33 PM
12/25/08 11:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,497
N.E. Ohio
KillerBee
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,497
N.E. Ohio
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
#160650
12/26/08 12:01 AM
12/26/08 12:01 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,031
Florida
StewartP
Mopar Vintage Picture Guy
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Mopar Vintage Picture Guy
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,031
Florida
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
#160653
12/26/08 11:38 AM
12/26/08 11:38 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,354
ohio
HEMIDARTS
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,354
ohio
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: B Dartman]
#160658
12/27/08 12:42 AM
12/27/08 12:42 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 39
SLC, Utah
mgpanos
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 39
SLC, Utah
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Hi Joe,
Thanks for taking the time to answer some questions about the "good old days!"
1. It is obvious from all of the pictures that Stewart has posted that Donnie, you and the rest of the "Missle" team did alot of thrashing on the small block parts in 74 and maybe into 75 to make the W2 heads work in the yellow car. I heard that the Rod Shop guys were also doing alot of testing in the Thomson C/G Colt on the small block PS engine. As I recall, Bruce Meihls was saying they actually had very competitive PS times in 1974, but the blocks just would not stay together. Thoughts?
2. Do you have any knowledge of the five Colts that Dan Knapp built for Chrysler? I know that one went to the MIssle program, and was finished by Butler and finally ended up with Lynnwood Craft. A second car went to Desantis and Crider for the C/G small blacok car. A third went to Jim Thompson/Rod Shop and was known as the B/G car, and a fourth chassis went to Bob Riffle/Rod Shop, but sat in the rafters of the shop for a whlile, and was then sold. Any idea where the fifth one went?
Thanks!
Mark Panos
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: B Dartman]
#160659
12/27/08 01:09 PM
12/27/08 01:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Quote:
Google is such a great thing... (Rich Mirarcki?) What do you think Joe P.; might it be Mirarcki?
USRT
Bill,
It looks like it is Rich Mirarcki. Funny how some things stick and some don't. The neat little autograph sheet helps tell the story pretty well.
There is an interesting side story to that trip to Washington and to Capitol Raceway and I might as well tell it so that the rest of you guys can have a real good laugh...
I was still working for Fons at the time and we had just taken delivery of our new D800 transporter from Chrysler. The entire rig was still white as we had not yet had the opportunity to get the familar ROD SHOP paint scheme applied as yet. Anyway, Mike did not do too much of the truck driving - he pretty much left that chore up to me. This truck was equipped with air brakes as most of the larger trucks of the time were. It had a 413 with a 5spd trans and 2spd rear axle. Mike was not familar with any of this nor with the two buttons on the dash - one green, one red. Those two buttons were for the air brake emergency stop and for the air brake parking brake system.
We left Detroit for DC in a heavy rainstorm and it was raining very hard all the way. By the time we made it into Breezewood PA we were tired, hungry, and needed fuel. I pulled into an ESSO station that was just off the interstate and started the fill up on the saddle tanks. About that time I spotted a Kentucky Fried Chicken place about 100 yards back up the hill and told Mike that I was headed up there to get some chow for the two of us. Mike was messing around with the windshield wipers as they were squeaking a bit too much for his liking (they were air opperated). While I was waiting in line at the KFC for my order this older lady comes in from the rain and said very loudly "My oh my, did you see that big white truck go over the cliff out there?" I didn't pay any real attention to what she said as I KNEW my truck was getting fueled down at the ESSO station.
When I went back outside with our dinner in hand I did not see the truck at the pumps. I just figured that Mike had moved it around the back to fill up the water tanks so we would not have to do it the next day at Capitol Raceway. Boy was I wrong. As I approached the gas pumps, there was Mike looking VERY concerned and at the edge of the ESSO station property was the back end of what HAD been our brand new truck tilted at about a 40 degree nose down angle over the edge of a cliff with the front bumper of the truck only 20 feet from the plate glass windows of some restaurant!!! This thing was just teetering on the edge like a teetertotter!!! Within minutes there were all kinds of emergency vehicles surrounding us and a couple of the biggest tow trucks that I have ever seen arrived on the scene. It took a crew of workers several hours of using house jacks, timbers, and those two big tow trucks to pull our rig back up the hill and get it back on both axles. Suprisingly, we only ripped off one saddle tank and ripped up the skirting on one side. The thing was still drivable.
It turns out that Mike decided to put some oil on the offending wiper mechanism. He started the truck and started pushing buttons to get the wipers to operate. Somehow, Mike released the parking brake and while he was outside on the running board applying oil to the wiper mechanism, the truck rolled away - without a driver!!! Over the edge it went and the rest is history... For some unknown reason, the car was not damaged at all. Amazing...
By the way, the US Racing Team match race at Capitol Raceway was a real success. Fons did well and everyone had a great time. The air there was really humid but the car ran great.
It seems like just getting to the race tracks was as big of an adventure as the races themselves. That was just the way it was back then. You never knew what would happen next.
Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160660
12/27/08 01:26 PM
12/27/08 01:26 PM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Quote:
I was waiting in line at the KFC for my order this older lady comes in from the rain and said very loudly "My oh my, did you see that big white truck go over the cliff out there?"
Now thats funny stuff..............I don't care who you are.
I need a clean-up on isle 5 please.
I believe I have just soiled myself. 
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: mgpanos]
#160661
12/27/08 01:31 PM
12/27/08 01:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Quote:
Hi Joe,
Thanks for taking the time to answer some questions about the "good old days!"
1. It is obvious from all of the pictures that Stewart has posted that Donnie, you and the rest of the "Missle" team did alot of thrashing on the small block parts in 74 and maybe into 75 to make the W2 heads work in the yellow car. I heard that the Rod Shop guys were also doing alot of testing in the Thomson C/G Colt on the small block PS engine. As I recall, Bruce Meihls was saying they actually had very competitive PS times in 1974, but the blocks just would not stay together. Thoughts?
2. Do you have any knowledge of the five Colts that Dan Knapp built for Chrysler? I know that one went to the MIssle program, and was finished by Butler and finally ended up with Lynnwood Craft. A second car went to Desantis and Crider for the C/G small blacok car. A third went to Jim Thompson/Rod Shop and was known as the B/G car, and a fourth chassis went to Bob Riffle/Rod Shop, but sat in the rafters of the shop for a whlile, and was then sold. Any idea where the fifth one went?
Thanks!
Mark Panos
Mark,
We did work pretty hard on the 'A' engine package with the yellow test car. The wire car was to have been our 'race' car for the '75 season but things sort of fell apart before we finished the car.
The 'A' engine program worked out pretty well as far as making the car go quick enough. My memory is not too clear on ET and MPH that the thing produced but I know we managed to use up a fair amount of parts that year. 1974 was a full year of testing for the Missile crew. Donnie match raced his own Hemi car with Clyde but for the most part Oldfield and I were totally immersed in the testing throughout the year. As far as what Thompson and the Rod Shop was working on I really can't say for sure - they had some pretty good success with their program but I honestly did not pay close attention to what they did.
Now, the Dan Knapp Colts... Dan built the Colt that I took out to Butler's place during the summer of 1973. THAT particular Colt was built specifically for the D5 Hemi. Because of the head configuration and some other issues, we could not easily switch to a 'normal' Hemi. I went back to Butler's place in the fall to pick up the car and by the time I arrived back in Detroit, the decision had been made to shelf the D5 program and the car was immediately put into storage at the Performance Parts Warehouse in Centerline. I remember delivering the car over there and seeing it being forklifted up onto an upper shelf in the warehouse. Later, Donnie got that car back and cut off the car at the firewall and rebuilt the front structure to accept a normal Hemi. Stewart can tell you better which Colt that ended up being in Donnie's stable.
As far as where these cars went I also do not know. Dan Knapp and I worked together at SVI from about 1981 to the time he passed away in about 1984 - he was one heck of a great guy and very talented car builder. He also built the chassis on the wire car for us.
Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160662
12/27/08 05:44 PM
12/27/08 05:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,168
Wichita Kansas
B Dartman
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,168
Wichita Kansas
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Quote:
Mike was not familar with any of this nor with the two buttons on the dash - one green, one red. Those two buttons were for the air brake emergency stop and for the air brake parking brake system.
Classic!! Too funny and glad no one nor the car was hurt. Could tell this story was going "down hill" (pun intended) as soon as I read the above quote! Great stuff!
It's all good on the name recollections...that's what makes this post great. Collectively it's reuniting legends of the sport, tapping into their memory banks, and sharing those times with mopar enthusiasts of all ages; particularly those too young to have experienced it. This is something Stewart Pomeroy has mentioned many times, he recognizes the need to capture this stuff and whole heartedly wants those days NOT to be forgotten Thanks for taking the time to write and share the stories 
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160664
12/27/08 10:26 PM
12/27/08 10:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 39
SLC, Utah
mgpanos
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 39
SLC, Utah
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Thanks for the reply, Joe. Your story about picking up the Colt in CA intertwines with a story from Bruce Meihls from the Rod Shop. Here is the gist of the story as Bruce related it to me one day.
As a new employee at the Rod Shop, Bruce Meihls was excited by the prospect of working for a very successful racing team. He was a “roadie”, one of the crew whose responsibilities included driving the transporter, washing the race car, getting water to cool the car down, pushing the car through the staging lanes, and every other conceivable job to make this team a success. The Rod Shop's first Colt, the “B/Gas" car for Jim Thompson, was delivered semi-finished in Spring of 1973. Due to the commitments of the racing schedule, the time just wasn’t available for the team to finish it. It was decided to send the car to Butler Racing in CA, and have Ron Butler work his magic. Butch Leal had debuted a Butler-built Duster in 1973, and it was very good. So good, in fact, that the Rod Shop had ordered a Dart for Bob Riffle. Thus, the Colt was destined for a trip to California.
Bruce volunteered to deliver the car to Butler Racing, and at the same time fit in a family vacation, fo off to California with the Colt on a trailer behind the station wagon. Bruce was scheduled to deliver the car on Monday, but actually arrived in Ca on Friday night. Not wanting to drag it around on vacation, Bruce decided to go to Butlers on Saturday morning and see if he could drop it off. Upon arriving at Butler Racing, Bruce went around to the back of the building, and one of the overhead doors was open. There were five men standing around looking at a new race car. A Dodge Colt. There was some magic marker on the scoop and door. The hood said 366 Hemi. The door said Mini Missile!
Bruce looked around, and finally someone asked if they could help him. Bruce mentioned that he was from the Rod Shop, and wanted to drop off a car. Imagine his surprise as they gruffly asked him to leave, and bring the car back on Monday! Bruce did return the car on Monday (of course the Mini Missile was gone), and called Jim Thompson (one of the Rod Shop founders) to report that it was there. He also mentioned the curious incident about the “Mini Missile”, and Jim Thompson became rather curious. A call to Dick Maxwell at Chrysler didn’t net any real answers.
It turns out the “Mopar Missile” team had their Colt before the first Rod Shop car was even delivered! In later years, Bruce would become very familiar with the five men at Butler Racing that day. Tom Hoover, Don Carlton, Ted Spehar, Clyde Hodges, and Ron Butler!
Funny story!
Mark
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: mgpanos]
#160665
12/27/08 11:30 PM
12/27/08 11:30 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,031
Florida
StewartP
Mopar Vintage Picture Guy
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Mopar Vintage Picture Guy
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,031
Florida
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
#160668
12/28/08 08:16 AM
12/28/08 08:16 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,054
Mt Evelyn , Vic Australia
dartcharger
Virgin Fluff
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Virgin Fluff
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,054
Mt Evelyn , Vic Australia
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Quote:
Quote:
I was waiting in line at the KFC for my order this older lady comes in from the rain and said very loudly "My oh my, did you see that big white truck go over the cliff out there?"
Now thats funny stuff..............I don't care who you are.
I need a clean-up on isle 5 please.
I believe I have just soiled myself.
\
As soon as i read that line i thought OH OW!
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: dartcharger]
#160670
12/28/08 10:43 AM
12/28/08 10:43 AM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Quote:
This has to be the BEST thread on mopart's ever....hand's down......Thank you Joe Pappas
There is nothing more valuable than gettting these facts, and great stories straight from the people that were right there.
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: mgpanos]
#160671
12/28/08 05:29 PM
12/28/08 05:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Quote:
Thanks for the reply, Joe. Your story about picking up the Colt in CA intertwines with a story from Bruce Meihls from the Rod Shop. Here is the gist of the story as Bruce related it to me one day.
As a new employee at the Rod Shop, Bruce Meihls was excited by the prospect of working for a very successful racing team. He was a “roadie”, one of the crew whose responsibilities included driving the transporter, washing the race car, getting water to cool the car down, pushing the car through the staging lanes, and every other conceivable job to make this team a success. The Rod Shop's first Colt, the “B/Gas" car for Jim Thompson, was delivered semi-finished in Spring of 1973. Due to the commitments of the racing schedule, the time just wasn’t available for the team to finish it. It was decided to send the car to Butler Racing in CA, and have Ron Butler work his magic. Butch Leal had debuted a Butler-built Duster in 1973, and it was very good. So good, in fact, that the Rod Shop had ordered a Dart for Bob Riffle. Thus, the Colt was destined for a trip to California.
Bruce volunteered to deliver the car to Butler Racing, and at the same time fit in a family vacation, fo off to California with the Colt on a trailer behind the station wagon. Bruce was scheduled to deliver the car on Monday, but actually arrived in Ca on Friday night. Not wanting to drag it around on vacation, Bruce decided to go to Butlers on Saturday morning and see if he could drop it off. Upon arriving at Butler Racing, Bruce went around to the back of the building, and one of the overhead doors was open. There were five men standing around looking at a new race car. A Dodge Colt. There was some magic marker on the scoop and door. The hood said 366 Hemi. The door said Mini Missile!
Bruce looked around, and finally someone asked if they could help him. Bruce mentioned that he was from the Rod Shop, and wanted to drop off a car. Imagine his surprise as they gruffly asked him to leave, and bring the car back on Monday! Bruce did return the car on Monday (of course the Mini Missile was gone), and called Jim Thompson (one of the Rod Shop founders) to report that it was there. He also mentioned the curious incident about the “Mini Missile”, and Jim Thompson became rather curious. A call to Dick Maxwell at Chrysler didn’t net any real answers.
It turns out the “Mopar Missile” team had their Colt before the first Rod Shop car was even delivered! In later years, Bruce would become very familiar with the five men at Butler Racing that day. Tom Hoover, Don Carlton, Ted Spehar, Clyde Hodges, and Ron Butler!
Funny story!
Mark
Mark,
I don't exactly know the time frame that Bruce Meihls delivered the Rod Shop Colt to Butler's but the Missile Colt was there for several months during the '73 season with me picking up the car the week after the IHRA fall race at Bristol. Now, I know for a fact that Clyde never stepped foot in Butler's shop. Sorry, but that is fact. Also, Teddy Spehar never went out to Butler's when the Colt was there. I delivered it there and picked it up. Neither Teddy nor Donnie was there during that time period. In fact, I drove Spehar's pickup out there with the Colt in the biggest U-haul trailer we could rent and left the rig out there until I flew back from Bristol to pick it up. It is possible there was another Colt at Butler's that Bruce saw, but I am sure it was not ours nor did he see Clyde Hodges or Teddy Spehar out there at that time. Sorry - I am just trying to make sure the stories stay straight for everyone.
Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: PC-CHARGER]
#160673
12/28/08 05:48 PM
12/28/08 05:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 39
SLC, Utah
mgpanos
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 39
SLC, Utah
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The D5 was quite a different breed from previous 426 Hemi heads. The valve angle was much shallower than the D1/D4/D6 heads, which also made the combustion chamber much shallower. The intake and exhaust ports were round (and smaller than the standard Hemi), and had a much straighter shot at the valve. This is what changed the angle at which the intake manifold surface mated with the head (the manifold in the picture is for standard Hemi heads). Also, the intake and exhaust ports were much higher than the standard Hemi, and this is part of what made the D5 Colt front chassis a little different. Notice how low the front cage runners are going out to the front of the frame rails.
Another interesting change was the way the rocker arms were situated on the head, which moved the pushrods and changed the pushrod cutouts in the block to a different location.
Why the D5 heads? Henry Weslake designed them, and he had quite a reputation as a world-class racing head designer. He felt that the intake port was way too big on the Hemi for its intended rpm range, and thus the D5 had a smaller and round intake. And as for the exhaust ports, Weslake raised them alot and shortened the port length, getting rid of that more-than-90 degree bend in the standard Hemi exhaust. Chrysler thought they had a world-beater when those heads arrived, but disappointment soon followed.
Were they successful? Well, yes and no. The factory teams tried them on 426's (not successful), 396's (a little success), and 366's (better, but the 366 had other issues). The ports were just too small, and most or all of the factory teams went back to the D4 aluminum heads. Chrysler went back to the drawing board and came up with the D6 head design years later, the best of the factory heads in my opinion (leaky and porous castings aside).
The D5 heads were most successful at the beginning of the 500" PS motor days, as racers were willing to put alot of work into the heads to get HUGE ports out of them. While the D5 had small ports, there was alot of material there to play with, and some racers even welded in new material to make huge round intake ports for the 500" monsters.
Hope that helps,
Mark
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: mgpanos]
#160675
12/28/08 06:09 PM
12/28/08 06:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
|
Quote:
The D5 was quite a different breed from previous 426 Hemi heads. The valve angle was much shallower than the D1/D4/D6 heads, which also made the combustion chamber much shallower. The intake and exhaust ports were round (and smaller than the standard Hemi), and had a much straighter shot at the valve. This is what changed the angle at which the intake manifold surface mated with the head (the manifold in the picture is for standard Hemi heads). Also, the intake and exhaust ports were much higher than the standard Hemi, and this is part of what made the D5 Colt front chassis a little different. Notice how low the front cage runners are going out to the front of the frame rails.
Another interesting change was the way the rocker arms were situated on the head, which moved the pushrods and changed the pushrod cutouts in the block to a different location.
Why the D5 heads? Henry Weslake designed them, and he had quite a reputation as a world-class racing head designer. He felt that the intake port was way too big on the Hemi for its intended rpm range, and thus the D5 had a smaller and round intake. And as for the exhaust ports, Weslake raised them alot and shortened the port length, getting rid of that more-than-90 degree bend in the standard Hemi exhaust. Chrysler thought they had a world-beater when those heads arrived, but disappointment soon followed.
Were they successful? Well, yes and no. The factory teams tried them on 426's (not successful), 396's (a little success), and 366's (better, but the 366 had other issues). The ports were just too small, and most or all of the factory teams went back to the D4 aluminum heads. Chrysler went back to the drawing board and came up with the D6 head design years later, the best of the factory heads in my opinion (leaky and porous castings aside).
The D5 heads were most successful at the beginning of the 500" PS motor days, as racers were willing to put alot of work into the heads to get HUGE ports out of them. While the D5 had small ports, there was alot of material there to play with, and some racers even welded in new material to make huge round intake ports for the 500" monsters.
Hope that helps,
Mark
Mark,
Excellent, thanks.
Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: mgpanos]
#160677
12/28/08 09:52 PM
12/28/08 09:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,031
Florida
StewartP
Mopar Vintage Picture Guy
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Mopar Vintage Picture Guy
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,031
Florida
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: mr_340]
#160684
12/29/08 12:24 PM
12/29/08 12:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
blownzoom440
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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Quote:
Quote:
D5 Hagen motor
Lookie at that tiny little dome! Hardly looks like a Hemi, now does it? 
it looks like a P to V check was getting done along with a chamber impression.
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: RaceCarRegistry]
#160685
12/29/08 01:01 PM
12/29/08 01:01 PM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Quote:
I believe the white PS Duster that wrecked was the short-lived David Sox car - Reed in Neb.
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
#160687
12/29/08 02:43 PM
12/29/08 02:43 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,101
Yes
sixpakdodge
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,101
Yes
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Quote:
Quote:
I believe the white PS Duster that wrecked was the short-lived David Sox car - Reed in Neb.
That's it. Maybe David will chime in...
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: StewartP]
#160689
12/30/08 11:53 AM
12/30/08 11:53 AM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Quote:
It is confirmed, Joe Pappas will be at the Brevard Swap Meet (Melbourne Florida) on Jan.24,2009 --- Stop by and talk to him
http://www.spacey.net/cconnor/swap.htm
I will be there.
Is Oldfield comming.?
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: mgpanos]
#160692
12/30/08 02:07 PM
12/30/08 02:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,031
Raleigh N.C
hemiparts
"Missile Pilot"
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"Missile Pilot"
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,031
Raleigh N.C
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Quote:
I really enjoyed that video, Bill, and what a kick as Lee Edward's Vega pulls the front wheels on the 1-2 shift.<smiling> What track is that in NC? Who had the white Duster that crashed? Was that the Stu McDade car that was blue, right at the end?
Thanks,
Mark
The video title says it was filmed @ now closed Shuffletown Dragstrip ( damn developers  ) just outside of Charlotte NC. Looking at the the video again I have to agree It looks like David Sox in the wreck, maybe Dean will verify for us, David made his first pass in 30 years in Dean's Duster @ the McCandless Mopar Classic in September.
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: StewartP]
#160693
12/30/08 02:40 PM
12/30/08 02:40 PM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Quote:
Kevin, you bringing the car ?
Not 100% sure at this time. I will figure it out over the next 5-7 days.
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160695
12/30/08 08:40 PM
12/30/08 08:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,168
Wichita Kansas
B Dartman
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,168
Wichita Kansas
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Quote:
I really enjoyed that video, Bill, and what a kick as Lee Edward's Vega pulls the front wheels on the 1-2 shift.<smiling> What track is that in NC? Who had the white Duster that crashed? Was that the Stu McDade car that was blue, right at the end?
Thanks,
Mark
Hey Mark,
I was just as curious as you and also had no idea on the identity of the crashed car in the vid. Ahhhh the 1-2 shift on the Vega...too cool.
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: mgpanos]
#160697
12/31/08 07:22 PM
12/31/08 07:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,168
Wichita Kansas
B Dartman
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,168
Wichita Kansas
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Quote:
Hey Bill Hartman,
Any other cool video of 70's Pro Stock laying around? How about Summer Duck Dragway?
Mark
Found those two links on YouTube following a video link Stewart sent out. I just try as many different catch phrases in their search window as possible (pro-stock, vintage, 1970, by name (Mopar Missle), etc...) They are some out there, just find em by happen chance. But I'm always looking!!
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: mgpanos]
#160698
12/31/08 08:17 PM
12/31/08 08:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 622
sing sing
unknown
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 622
sing sing
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Quote:
Hey Bill Hartman,
Any other cool video of 70's Pro Stock laying around? How about Summer Duck Dragway?
Mark
Theres a bunch on youtube
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: unknown]
#160699
12/31/08 08:50 PM
12/31/08 08:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,168
Wichita Kansas
B Dartman
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,168
Wichita Kansas
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This is by far one of my favorite vids and has been posted on Moparts a few times. For Joe Pappas, curious what it was like racing at OCIR, Ontario Motor Speedway, Riverside, Lions, etc (tracks now gone)... were these considered "super tracks" of their day? What were they like vs. East Coast tracks? Seems California had tracks around every corner.. Or better yet....was territorial pride on the line..East Coast vs. West..etc. Had to be fun to trailer all the way across country back then and put a serious spanking on the competition In some cases, if the competition knew you guys were in town, would they look to race elsewhere to avoid the smack down  Drag Cars Having Fun
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: B Dartman]
#160700
01/01/09 01:56 PM
01/01/09 01:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Quote:
This is by far one of my favorite vids and has been posted on Moparts a few times.
For Joe Pappas, curious what it was like racing at OCIR, Ontario Motor Speedway, Riverside, Lions, etc (tracks now gone)... were these considered "super tracks" of their day? What were they like vs. East Coast tracks? Seems California had tracks around every corner.. Or better yet....was territorial pride on the line..East Coast vs. West..etc. Had to be fun to trailer all the way across country back then and put a serious spanking on the competition In some cases, if the competition knew you guys were in town, would they look to race elsewhere to avoid the smack down
Drag Cars Having Fun
Bill,
We raced mostly at Ontario and Pomona. It seems like almost every track we ever raced at or tested at in California is now gone with the exception of Pomona. We tested a lot at the old Irwindale track as well as Orange County, and even once at Ontario. I think that Orange County was near or next to El Toro Marine Air Station. Later, when I lived in the Bay area in the mid 70's I raced with guys like John Jodauga (John is an Associate Editor for the National Dragster) at Fremont when he brought his racecar into town.
Like I said, everything is now gone. The California tracks were all pretty cool and had good pedigree on their side. I especially liked testing at OCIR because it was a very nice facility and they had an on-site chef that would make all us a hot lunch every day. That was really first class! No balogna sandwiches for us...
As far as east coast vs. west coast stuff went I guess it never entered my thoughts back then. There were typically 4-8 teams that you knew could win at any time. Certainly Sox, Landy, Jenkins, Nicholson, Fons, and the Missile fit in there. I honestly don't think that there was a "territorial' feel to much of what we did. There was always plently of room for a local PS team to make the show as we tended to qualify 32 car fields back then. Everyone knows what a thrill it is to qualify even when you know in your heart that you don't have much of a chance unless your opponent breaks or red lights.
Since we shared our test info with all the other Chrysler PS teams, we would often be joined by them during one of our test sessions so our relations with them were great. Back in Michigan, we would open up our shop to them when they were in town. I can't tell you how many times the Sox & Martin rig and the Landy rig were parked together outside our shop and all 3 teams were tearing apart their cars on the floor. It was just what we did - we never thought much about it.
Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: TS3303]
#160702
01/03/09 06:25 PM
01/03/09 06:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 39
SLC, Utah
mgpanos
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 39
SLC, Utah
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Joe,
Wondering if you might add some thoughts about the development of the Hemi Pro Stock engine during your time with the Rod Shop, Mopar Missile and other programs at Chrysler, as you had a unique insider perspective . The Chrysler program resulted in some of the most innovative developments such as the crank trigger ignition, smart oil pan designs, high lift roller camshafts, etc., and common sense ideas like milling all of the un-needed weight from the cylinder block (bosses, freeze plug bump, webs, and even the thickness of the water jacket), restricting oil to the top end of the motor (less oil to the valve train means less has to get past the rotating assembly to get to the oil pan, re: reduced windage), etc. Just to get the reflective thoughts flowing, here are some questions:
1. Even with all the innovation of the Chrysler Hemi program, it seems like there was a reluctance to move from the NASCAR steel rod/heavy piston combo to an aluminum rod/light piston combo similar to the Ford 351 Cleveland, SBC and BBC and AMC. Any comments on this? Was durability the issue?
2. The dry sump oil system certainly adds weight to the front end of the car, but was probably a necessity when you are talking about super low cars such as Ken Van Cleve’s car, the Missile and even Carlton’s black B/A car. Any idea on how much horsepower was gained with the dry sump over a 7” oil pan, and was it enough to offset the added weight?
3. When did titanium valves first start being used in the Hemi’s?
Thanks!
Mark
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: StewartP]
#160706
01/04/09 03:05 PM
01/04/09 03:05 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,031
Raleigh N.C
hemiparts
"Missile Pilot"
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"Missile Pilot"
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,031
Raleigh N.C
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Stewart, Go to www.autofestnc.com and click on the upper left corner on hot rod expo. Every year they induct 4 new members into the NC Drag Racing Hall of Fame. Past inductees have included, Sox & Martin, Don Carlton, Herb McCandless, Harold Denton. This year it will be Max Hurley, Dee Simmons,Roy Hill and the late Billy West  . Todd Werner usely brings @ least 1 of his cars and you'll see Buddy Martin, Ron Lyles's family, The McCandless family most anybody involved in drag racing in NC.
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: hemiparts]
#160707
01/04/09 04:35 PM
01/04/09 04:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,031
Florida
StewartP
Mopar Vintage Picture Guy
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Mopar Vintage Picture Guy
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,031
Florida
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: StewartP]
#160709
01/05/09 12:12 PM
01/05/09 12:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,607
KYbywayof WV
Frito
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,607
KYbywayof WV
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Quote:
thanks
Stewart, Fred, Kev, anyone, The photos of Carlton's shop show a lot of chassis and body fab but I don't notice engines being built or engine building tools or machines. Did the motors come complete from Spehar or someone else? How about the motors for Stu McDade and the Rod Shop cars.
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: StewartP]
#160712
01/05/09 11:29 PM
01/05/09 11:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 39
SLC, Utah
mgpanos
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 39
SLC, Utah
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Quote:
I think that Ted Spehar had a lot to do with Carlton's motors. As for the Rod Shop, I believe they did their own stuff, with input from others
StewartP
I think Stewart is right that Spehar had alot to do with Carlton's motors, at least until responsibility for the Missile program tranferred to Carlton (1973-74?). It seems like Clyde Hodges said that he and Donnie were doing their own motors in 1974 for the "Don Carlton" Dart Sport. (Hmmm, wonder if they did the small blocks, too. Joe?)
Clyde's story about Motor 37 (or was it 39) was pretty enlightening and humorous.
Mark
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: hemiparts]
#160714
01/06/09 10:16 PM
01/06/09 10:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Everyone, I have to apologize for being a little tardy with replies over the last few days. It seems that the sticky little thing they call a job has sort of interfeered with my "fun" time. It's a bit after 9PM on Tuesday and I just got home about 45 minutes ago ( I leave for work at 5AM ) so it has been a long few days. I promise that I will get caught up over the next few days. Sorry again for the delays. Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160715
01/07/09 12:04 AM
01/07/09 12:04 AM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Quote:
It seems that the sticky little thing they call a job has sort of interfeered with my "fun" time.
I guess I need to have "my" people call, "your" people, and explain to them that this whole job thing is getting a little bit out of hand.
They just don't understand that MOPARTS is #1 priority......geeeeze the nerve of some folks 
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: mgpanos]
#160716
01/08/09 10:12 PM
01/08/09 10:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
|
Quote:
Joe,
Wondering if you might add some thoughts about the development of the Hemi Pro Stock engine during your time with the Rod Shop, Mopar Missile and other programs at Chrysler, as you had a unique insider perspective . The Chrysler program resulted in some of the most innovative developments such as the crank trigger ignition, smart oil pan designs, high lift roller camshafts, etc., and common sense ideas like milling all of the un-needed weight from the cylinder block (bosses, freeze plug bump, webs, and even the thickness of the water jacket), restricting oil to the top end of the motor (less oil to the valve train means less has to get past the rotating assembly to get to the oil pan, re: reduced windage), etc. Just to get the reflective thoughts flowing, here are some questions:
1. Even with all the innovation of the Chrysler Hemi program, it seems like there was a reluctance to move from the NASCAR steel rod/heavy piston combo to an aluminum rod/light piston combo similar to the Ford 351 Cleveland, SBC and BBC and AMC. Any comments on this? Was durability the issue?
2. The dry sump oil system certainly adds weight to the front end of the car, but was probably a necessity when you are talking about super low cars such as Ken Van Cleve’s car, the Missile and even Carlton’s black B/A car. Any idea on how much horsepower was gained with the dry sump over a 7” oil pan, and was it enough to offset the added weight?
3. When did titanium valves first start being used in the Hemi’s?
Thanks!
Mark
Mark,
From my perspective, the PS Hemi development that was going on during the early 70's was a two step process. There were a lot of good engine guys out there running PS Hemi engines. Just look at what each and every team did and the success that was generated by their efforts. Absolutely, the Missile team led the way with the test program to try the new cams, piston technologies, and a ton of other innovations, but pretty much each team built their own engines utilizing the stuff that Chrysler fed them PLUS their own innovations and engine building techniques that became their signature. For instance, if Jake King, Dick Landy, Arlan Vanke, or Butch Leal felt they had a better way - then so be it and that is what they did. Sometimes, we had some bits and pieces on the car or utilized in the engine that had not quite made it out to the rest of the group and maybe that was one of the reasons we were so successful especially in the '73 PS season, but the rest of the teams would definitely be totally up to speed within the week so they too could use the same stuff if they chose to do so. What I guess I am attempting to say is - first, the Missile broke the ground development wise, and secondly - the Chrysler PS teams utilized the Missile data PLUS used their experience, skill, and techniques to further improve the engine development foundation we provided.
Now - for your questions...
1. I am probably not the best person to answer engine related questions but I do think that durability was an issue with aluminum rods. I remember when I was with Fons and the Ramchargers built a motor for us to test out in California. I am pretty sure it had aluminum rods but it broke after only a few runs. Our Missile engines used the steel rods and given the reciprocating weight of the piston / rod assembly, we had to change bearings every 10 to 12 passes. The pistons alone weighed a ton. It made for a lot of work but the reliability was alwasy there. To the best of my memory, we never broke a rod or had significant damage to a Hemi engine. Now we did tip some valves into the top of the piston ever so slightly now and then...but that was the price you pay.
2. The Missile Duster did not use a dry sump system. We used a deep oil pan with Mr. Hoover's kick outs and a swinging pickup. That was our standard. Using a dry sump was not yet on our agenda. Later, our 'A' engine program was going that direction but not our Missile deal. Also, I am not sure if Donnie used a dry sump on his B/A car or not. Oldfield may know and I will ask him. As far as hp gains from dry vs wet I honestly don't know, but I am sure the gains far offset any weight differences.
3. The question on Titanium valves is not something I actually know the answer to. I will ask Ted Spehar - he remembers all that stuff. My time was spent lashing valves - I was only in the engine room long enough to pick up more bearings and pick up or drop off engines for rebuilds...
Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160719
01/09/09 12:46 AM
01/09/09 12:46 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,031
Raleigh N.C
hemiparts
"Missile Pilot"
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"Missile Pilot"
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,031
Raleigh N.C
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Joe, You have my respect I can't ride my bike to the top of the hill in front of my house  Don was awesome in his day, can you only imagine how dominate he would have been with todays technology and factory backing  as always sir your the "Encyclopedia Joetanica" of Mopar Pro Stock ps I have been told that they run a Don Carlton Memorial race @ a track near Lenoir, Kevin and I will check into it @ Greensboro the end of the month.
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: hemiparts]
#160720
01/09/09 10:07 AM
01/09/09 10:07 AM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Quote:
your the "Encyclopedia Joetanica" of Mopar Pro Stock
Now a question from me.
You have told a few funny stories since your arrival on Moparts.
What is the funniest Carlton story you have? What were some of his "pet peeves" ?
Fons story? Fons "pet peeves".?
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: Frito]
#160721
01/10/09 09:24 PM
01/10/09 09:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Quote:
Quote:
thanks
Stewart, Fred, Kev, anyone, The photos of Carlton's shop show a lot of chassis and body fab but I don't notice engines being built or engine building tools or machines. Did the motors come complete from Spehar or someone else? How about the motors for Stu McDade and the Rod Shop cars.
Don's shop in Troy Michigan was strictly for the "car" work. Ted Spehar supplied all the Missile engines from his shop (Specialized Vehicles, Inc.). The two shops were about 3 miles apart. When Don, Dick, and I went to a NHRA or IHRA event, we would typically have 3 engines with us - one in the car and two fully dressed engines in the truck. We always had a good supply of horsepower from Spehar.
For Don's match race cars that were run from Hudson North Carolina, Clyde Hodges and Donnie typically built those bullets. I can't say for sure but I would not be suprised if Spehar did not lend a hand - at the very least with information. Clyde was a good engine man in is own right and I know for sure that he did most of that work himself. I know because he built a motor in my hotel room at Englishtown one year! That room smelled bad... He built the stinking thing on my bed and to protect the sheets he laid the shower curtain over the bedspread! How thoughtful... That particular motor was for the Stuart McDade PS car that Donnie owned. In the shop that Donnie built in Hudson at the end of the 1974 season, it had a nice little motor room (clean room) where Clyde could do his engine builds.
Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: mgpanos]
#160722
01/10/09 09:44 PM
01/10/09 09:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
|
Quote:
Quote:
I think that Ted Spehar had a lot to do with Carlton's motors. As for the Rod Shop, I believe they did their own stuff, with input from others
StewartP
I think Stewart is right that Spehar had alot to do with Carlton's motors, at least until responsibility for the Missile program tranferred to Carlton (1973-74?). It seems like Clyde Hodges said that he and Donnie were doing their own motors in 1974 for the "Don Carlton" Dart Sport. (Hmmm, wonder if they did the small blocks, too. Joe?)
Clyde's story about Motor 37 (or was it 39) was pretty enlightening and humorous.
Mark
Mark,
I don't think that Donnie and Clyde did much of anything with the small blocks - Teddy Spehar did those for our test program.
All engines that Ted Spehar built were numbered. Our all time best bullet was #33. I loved that engine! For some reason, that piece always ran a tick better that all the rest - and all the rest were fantastic engines. No matter how many rebuilds it went through, it always came out on top.
Somewhere in my archives, there is an old notebook that I used to keep with notes on different engines. I kept notes on stuff like valve lash, leak tests, cam changes, etc. I distinctly remember certain engine numbers like #33 (my favorite), #36, and #39. The rest of them sort of run together.
I don't remember any particular Clyde story about one of the engines so if you want to share it with me please do. If you would rather do it in private that's ok - just send me a note. Obviously, there are a NUMBER of stories I really can't tell in the open without getting OK's from those involved...
Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160724
01/11/09 01:24 AM
01/11/09 01:24 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 39
SLC, Utah
mgpanos
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 39
SLC, Utah
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/quote]
Mark,
I don't remember any particular Clyde story about one of the engines so if you want to share it with me please do. If you would rather do it in private that's ok - just send me a note. Obviously, there are a NUMBER of stories I really can't tell in the open without getting OK's from those involved...
Joe Pappas
Joe,
I don't think I will offend anyone so I'll share the story with the group. Clyde was talking about the huge advantages of having direct factory involvement (as you have elaborated on in this thread), and chuckling about some of the downfalls. It seems that Donnie had a match race coming up (75-76 as I recall) and Clyde needed to get a motor together. Due to a variety of factors, all he could do is a 437 ci motor using some older ported '65 aluminum heads that were pretty rough looking, a somewhat mismatched tunnel ram, a leaky block (too much milling on the sides), and a somewhat unbalanced rotating assembly (not sure why). Well, the motor was one of those screamers and served Donnie well at subsequent match races.
The factory was wondering what Donnie and Clyde had done with this motor and asked (I had the impression from Clyde that the sponsor asking is the same as directing?) that the motor be sent to Chrysler for a dyno run and then a disassembly and analysis.
Well, when Donnie and Clyde got the motor back (and it was assembled), it would not fall off a turnip truck. It ran horrible! Clyde claimed that he took the motor apart and was surprised that the heads seemed to have been sent to Mullens for the most current porting along with the manifold, that the rotating assembly was now balanced correctly, and the sides of the block had nice aluminum plates screwed on and sealed to stop the water leaks. Someone had taken alot of time to make the "wrong" things right, and lost one of those seemingly magical combinations of parts that just "works." He really missed that motor!
Mark
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160725
01/12/09 10:58 AM
01/12/09 10:58 AM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Hey Joe,
What year did you stop working for "Carlton/Missile"...Did you continue to work for the Rod Shop yrs (Colt). What was the reason for the departure (if not to nosey).
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Re: Official Joe PAPPAS Q & A Thread
#160726
01/12/09 09:46 PM
01/12/09 09:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Quote:
Quote:
your the "Encyclopedia Joetanica" of Mopar Pro Stock
Now a question from me.
You have told a few funny stories since your arrival on Moparts.
What is the funniest Carlton story you have? What were some of his "pet peeves" ?
Fons story? Fons "pet peeves".?
Kevin,
I'll start with Mike Fons. Probably the funniest story is the one that I already told about the truck going over the cliff in Breezewood PA. However, there are others - maybe not quite as funny but here goes...Fons and I were in Gainsville testing. We had been there for a week or so and had been staying at a Holiday Inn out on I-75 along with the rest of the Chrysler guys. We finished testing late in the afternoon and everyone decided to go check out and head for Detroit. Oldfield was driving the Missile truck and I had the Fons truck. Anyhow, we all went back to the motel, cleaned up, packed, loaded the truck, and then went out to eat. Donnie and Mike went together and decided to go somewhere other than where Dick and I went (I think that Donnie might have had a rental car or maybe his own car). We all decided to meet on the entrance ramp to I-75 at 10 PM. At that time Fons was to hop in with me and head for home - we would be caravaning with the Missile truck - and Donnie was to head for North Carolina. Well 10 PM came and went and no Fons / Carlton. At 11 PM Oldfield had enough and took off leaving me to wait for the prodical driver... 12 Midnight - still no Fons... Since this was the time before cell phones, I had no way to contact Mike so there I sat. Finally at 1:00 AM I had enough too and headed north - without Fons. Around 9:00 AM I stopped at a truck stop and called Mike's wife and told her that I lost Mike and asked if he had called home. Sure enough he had. I don't exactly know what story he told but he was headed to Charlotte with Donnie and was going to catch a flight home from there. I think Mike and Donnie found a bar that they couldn't tear themselves away from and forgot about the time - and the fact that I was waiting for him at the freeway entrance!!! The really good part of the story is that I pulled into Mike's driveway at 8:00 PM that evening exactly 19 hrs after leaving Gainsville. Oh, by the way - I beat Mike home by about 2 hours!!! You know, he never did tell me EXACTLY what the heck he was doing that made him late...
As for Mike's pet peeves - wow, that might be tough. Mike is pretty easygoing so to pinpoint something is hard but he would complain about noises in the truck - the wipers were too noisy, the tires were making noise going over the expansion joints in the road, that sort of stuff. That is pretty funny from a guy that thrives on loud engines, burning rubber, and burnt clutches...
My funniest Don Carlton story happened one day when back at our shop in Troy Michigan. As I recall, it was early in the morning and Don was in the office meeting with our insurance agent going over our business insurance policies. Dick and I were out in the shop doing our daily stuff but needed to unload Al Adam's Valiant hot rod from an open trailer that was parked in the shop. Since the trailer was not hooked up to a pick up or anything and the car was less motor and transmission (ie: pretty light) we decided to block the trailer wheels up, put jack stands at the rear of the trailer to keep it from rearing up and roll the Valiant off in no time flat. WELL WERE WE WRONG!!! In no time flat that Valiant rolled off the trailer AND that trailer shot forward like a round out of a 300mm canon - with the tongue of the trailer shooting straight through the office wall. What a MESS!!! Oldfield and I ran to the office door thinking that for sure we killed poor Donnie. We get to the door, look in, and see Donnie calmly sitting at his desk looking down in front of the desk at the tongue of the trailer protruding about 3 feet into the office. That trailer tongue was directly between Donnie's desk and the chair in which sat the insurance man. Donnie looked up at Oldfield and I, looked down at the trailer tongue, and then looked directly at the insurance guy and said, "Do you suppose THAT is covered?" I will never forget it - that was just how calm, cool, and collected Donnie could be. By the way, he never said a thing about that incident other than to ask if Al's car was OK. What a guy!
Now - Donnie's peeves. Again, you are asking about a guy that never complained about anything that I remember so I guess I will have to think about this one for a while - maybe Oldfield can remember something and if we come up with a good answer I will post it.
Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
#160728
01/13/09 09:52 PM
01/13/09 09:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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I just got word that Kevin Christner passed away last night. It was Kevin who put this thread together and got it up and running. Words do not express how I feel. We have lost probably one of the most enthusiastic Mopar guys that I have run across in a long time. He wanted more than anything to see his MOTOWN MISSILE run down the track vs Hemi Fred and put on a show for all his fellow Mopar friends. Godspeed Kevin, Godspeed.
Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160729
01/13/09 10:30 PM
01/13/09 10:30 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
sunroofgtx
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
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Joe, words cannot express the loss this community has just undergone. He truly was an ambassador of good will and spirit. He , I think, was one of the driving forces around Moparts lately. His kindness, charisma, thoughtfullness and great attitude seemed to be really catching on around here. My thoughts and heart go out to Michelle , Sierra, his nephew and close friends and family . I am deeply saddened. He seemed to really spark a lot memories for "the older folk" around here. Meaning, guys with stories of the good ol' days.. I think Fred and you, Joe, got to be especially close to him. I'm very sorry. Rick G
Join the quickest team in motorsports. Team FireCore. CustomWiresets.com
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160730
01/13/09 10:35 PM
01/13/09 10:35 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,031
Raleigh N.C
hemiparts
"Missile Pilot"
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"Missile Pilot"
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,031
Raleigh N.C
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Quote:
I just got word that Kevin Christner passed away last night. It was Kevin who put this thread together and got it up and running. Words do not express how I feel. We have lost probably one of the most enthusiastic Mopar guys that I have run across in a long time. He wanted more than anything to see his MOTOWN MISSILE run down the track vs Hemi Fred and put on a show for all his fellow Mopar friends. Godspeed Kevin, Godspeed.
Joe Pappas
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
[Re: sunroofgtx]
#160731
01/13/09 10:49 PM
01/13/09 10:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Quote:
Joe, words cannot express the loss this community has just undergone. He truly was an ambassador of good will and spirit. He , I think, was one of the driving forces around Moparts lately. His kindness, charisma, thoughtfullness and great attitude seemed to be really catching on around here. My thoughts and heart go out to Michelle , Sierra, his nephew and close friends and family . I am deeply saddened.
He seemed to really spark a lot memories for "the older folk" around here. Meaning, guys with stories of the good ol' days.. I think Fred and you, Joe, got to be especially close to him. I'm very sorry. Rick G
Rick,
If it wasn't for Kevin's boundless curiosity about all the history and stories, I probably would have never taken the step to pass on the "old" stories and experiences to the Moparts members. Kevin will always be part of this thread - he was it's inspiration.
Joe Pappas
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Kev's DaMan
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160733
01/14/09 02:12 AM
01/14/09 02:12 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,031
Raleigh N.C
hemiparts
"Missile Pilot"
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"Missile Pilot"
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,031
Raleigh N.C
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Joe, As hard as it is for me to write this it also give me a little comfort to share a few "Kevin Moments" I remember one afternoon Kevin called me on the phone, he was so excited he could hardley talk. "Joe Pappas has joined MOPARTS" he screamed. I'll bet in the 5+months I knew him we burnt up 1/2 a million cell phone minutes and at least that many e-mails.He savored every tidbit of information or picture he could find of the "Old Missile Days" as he called them. Another phone call came in 1 afternoon " Joe Pappas wants to Drive the Missile" ( he was beside himself and talked abouth it for days) when he told me that I would be sharing the seat of the Missile with you have I have to admit I was in awe myself @ the possible chance to get to meet you in person. Kevin loved that car and all the history it held, maybe somewhere down the road our paths will cross and I'll get to meet " Joe Pappas" and maybe you and I can set down and swap "Kevin Stories". Chris
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Kev's DaMan
[Re: hemiparts]
#160734
01/14/09 08:55 AM
01/14/09 08:55 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,607
KYbywayof WV
Frito
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,607
KYbywayof WV
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I found this thread only last month. After only a couple of post I got a PM from Kevin. He had noticed in my profile I lived in KY and ask where? Believe it or not, he was born and raised only a few miles from me in Ironton, Ohio. He was a lot younger (43) but we knew some of the same people and I even knew one of his high school teachers. He was VERY curious as to the old Super Stock mopars I had owned or been involed with. He was going to help me find some history of X pro stock Duster we had in the early seventys. It had came out of the Carolinas and was lettered in gold lead as Starduster on the quarter panels. So much on the rambling, I would just like to say it was a pleasure in the very short time I had spoken with Kevin that I can say he was a friend and I will miss him>
Last edited by Frito; 01/14/09 08:55 AM.
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160736
01/16/09 07:01 PM
01/16/09 07:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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I know that Kevin Christner would want this thread to continue. He was instrumental in getting it going and out of respect for him, his efforts, and his enthusiasm - I will do so. He had asked me to try to get Dick Oldfield involved as well. I had spoken with Dick briefly about that a few weeks ago without a real yes or no but rest assured that if I cannot answer one of your questions - I know that Dick will help me out. I speak with him quite often (he's retired and I still work so I fund his Social Secruity...he owes me)so we can get answers.
I will be in Melbourne Florida next weekend at the MOPAR SWAP MEET and will once again lay my hands on the MOPAR MISSILE Duster that was driven by Don Carlton during our pretty successful 1973 Season. It is currently owned by Ben Donhoff who I believe lives somewhere in Florida. Between myself and Stewart Pomeroy, we plan on taking a lot of photos to document the current status of the car and hopefully we can find a way to share some of those with you.
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160737
01/16/09 11:05 PM
01/16/09 11:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,168
Wichita Kansas
B Dartman
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,168
Wichita Kansas
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Joe, When looking at the pictures of the Missle with the data collector, wheel speed sensors, airflow evaluation (strings), etc.. did the competition know the degree of testing that was going on and do you know if the competition was also testing to the same degree. When I first saw the pictures a year or two ago, I was in awe at the amount of information being gathered for the era. Bill
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160738
01/16/09 11:31 PM
01/16/09 11:31 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,102
Melbourne, Florida
Florida_70Bee
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,102
Melbourne, Florida
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Quote:
I know that Kevin Christner would want this thread to continue. He was instrumental in getting it going and out of respect for him, his efforts, and his enthusiasm - I will do so. He had asked me to try to get Dick Oldfield involved as well. I had spoken with Dick briefly about that a few weeks ago without a real yes or no but rest assured that if I cannot answer one of your questions - I know that Dick will help me out. I speak with him quite often (he's retired and I still work so I fund his Social Secruity...he owes me)so we can get answers.
I will be in Melbourne Florida next weekend at the MOPAR SWAP MEET and will once again lay my hands on the MOPAR MISSILE Duster that was driven by Don Carlton during our pretty successful 1973 Season. It is currently owned by Ben Donhoff who I believe lives somewhere in Florida. Between myself and Stewart Pomeroy, we plan on taking a lot of photos to document the current status of the car and hopefully we can find a way to share some of those with you.
Joe,
I am the chairman of Mopar Super Swap X. It is honor and privilege to have both you and Stewart come to our clubs swap meet next weekend, and hopefully share some great stories about Don Carlton and the Missile program.
Ben Donhoff is a friend of mine and lives in Melbourne. I think it is great that Ben will be bringing the Missile out to share with everyone. I hope I get to meet and thank you and Stewart personally for coming to our meet.
I never got to meet Kevin (I was hoping to at the meet) but I know you along with many of us are hurting with his loss. I hope next weekend will spark the "Mopar Enthusiam" in all of us that Kevin seemed most famous for. I know he seemed to bring alot of his enthusiam to many topics here on this board and it was much appreciated.
If you need anything let me know!
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
[Re: B Dartman]
#160739
01/17/09 12:53 PM
01/17/09 12:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Quote:
Joe,
When looking at the pictures of the Missle with the data collector, wheel speed sensors, airflow evaluation (strings), etc.. did the competition know the degree of testing that was going on and do you know if the competition was also testing to the same degree. When I first saw the pictures a year or two ago, I was in awe at the amount of information being gathered for the era.
Bill
Bill,
I am sure the competition knew full well that the Missile car was the factory test car from Chrysler. There was never any doubt about that. At a great number of the races we attended we were joined by Tom Hoover, Tom Coddington, Al Adam, Ron Killen, and John Baumann. It didn't take much to put two and two together... In the PS community, the secrets were few and far between - but we all managed to keep a few things close to the vest.
The Ford and GM teams all worked very hard to find an edge just like us but I think that their drag race programs were not as sophisticated, staffed, funded, or organized as was the Chrysler program.
That does not mean they did not exist, rather they existed on a different level. I know for a fact that Ford did wind tunnel testing at the Dearborn wind tunnels for the race teams back in the 60's and 70's. I had friends working there. The cars came in on the night shifts so as not to disrupt normal production development work. Also, I used to sit with a friend of mine from Dearborn on top of some schoolyard playground equipment at the elementary school located a the corner of Oakwood and Rotunda in Dearborn watching drag cars and road race cars go through their paces on the Dearborn Test Track.
Chrysler did limited wind tunnel work - mostly with NASCAR teams at Lockheed in GA and you saw how we did the poor man's version with our yarn tufts and documented our tests through photos. We later analyzed the photos and decisions as to the effectiveness of a change would be made.
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
[Re: StewartP]
#160744
01/25/09 02:44 PM
01/25/09 02:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,329
NC
DCM71cuda
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,329
NC
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Quote:
I am sure that Gary co-authored a SAE paper back in those days outlining the aerodynamic properties of the Daytona and Superbird based on his wind tunnel work. Rathgeb gave me a copy of it some years ago and it makes for some very interesting reading.
There was a paper published on this. I had a copy of it floating around a few years ago. I was very interesting and detailed some of the aerodynamic details of the car. I think the paper was written specifically about the Daytona.
I think the authors were Marcell and Romberg.
A few minutes w/ SAE..... SAE 700036
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
[Re: B Dartman]
#160748
01/25/09 10:34 PM
01/25/09 10:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,031
Florida
StewartP
Mopar Vintage Picture Guy
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Mopar Vintage Picture Guy
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,031
Florida
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
[Re: Florida_70Bee]
#160750
01/27/09 08:09 PM
01/27/09 08:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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I want to take this opportunity to say thank you to a number of people that were instrumental in making last weekend's experience so very special.
First I need to thank Stewart Pomeroy for pushing the right buttons in my head and dangling this carrot in front of my eyes. Without Stewart's efforts, much of the Missile's history - both photographic and verbal - would probably have disappeared once Dick Oldfield and I were firmly planted in terra firma. Thanks to his efforts, that will not happen. Stewart has been the most wonderful host I could ask for - opening his home and his wonderful network of Mopar contacts to myself and my wife Lynn. I owe you Stewart!!!
Next I would like to thank Andy Caldwell and Penny Anderson for putting on one terrific show. This is a first class event that warms this northerner's heart. I also appreciate the hospitality shown to Lynn and myself by everyone in Melbourne.
Lastly, I would like to thank Ben Donhoff for allowing me access to the MOPAR MISSILE. After 35 years the old girl looked mighty fine. She is older and a little different here and there but aren't we all. Ben, thank you for keeping the MOPAR MISSILE spirit alive. Take care of that old girl, treat her right and she take take care of you too.
I did have an ear to ear grin when Ben let me fire that girl up. It brought back lots of memories. That car has a piece the soul of every person who laid hand on her back in those days. There is not a day that goes by that I don't think about Don Carlton, Dickie Oldfield, and that great car.
Thank you for the best day I have had in many, many years.
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160752
01/27/09 08:56 PM
01/27/09 08:56 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
sunroofgtx
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
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Great stories. I sure wish I was a fly on the wall again. You guys keep getting together like this, and Joe will move to FLA, right next to Stu !! Can you say Bar-B-Que every day !!
I know Kevin had to be going crazy in heaven, wishing he were there, shaking hands. I wonder wahts going to happen to the Motown Duster ??
Join the quickest team in motorsports. Team FireCore. CustomWiresets.com
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160754
01/28/09 12:15 AM
01/28/09 12:15 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,031
Florida
StewartP
Mopar Vintage Picture Guy
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Mopar Vintage Picture Guy
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,031
Florida
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Joe, you owe me nothing - you and DickO, Tom Hoover, Tom Coddington, Al Adam, Ted Spehar, Leonard Bartush, Ron Killen, John Baumann and Don Carlton are the people we all owe. Your small band of brothers, were instrumental in numerous advances in Mopar drag racing. The guys of today will never be able to repay you all. All we can do is try to collect and share the history of those magical days, and keep your legacy alive. I believe I speak for all Mopar fans and especially Missile Fanatics --- THANK YOU !!
StewartP
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
[Re: StewartP]
#160755
01/28/09 12:19 AM
01/28/09 12:19 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,354
ohio
HEMIDARTS
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,354
ohio
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
[Re: chris3]
#160769
02/02/09 07:58 PM
02/02/09 07:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Quote:
Joe:
I spoke with Don, Jr. and Don's Family yesterday at the Southern Drag Expo/North Carolina Hall of Fame, in Greensboro. All are doing fine. We talked about your trip to Florida to see the Missle. Donnie said he bet that did bring a smile to your face and that you have a lot of memories of that car. He talked about your coming to visit him. We talked about Don and Clyde and the whole gang. Buddy Martin, Herb, Max Hurly, Roy Hill and the group were there.
We talked about this link on this site and his family has the information to get on and see some of the stories and all of the good comments on here about Don and the Missle.
Mike,
It sounds like your trip to Greensboro was a good one. I'm glad that you got a chance to see Don and the family. I think about them often and Lynn and I throughly enjoyed our visit with Don, him mom, and his sister Robin in the fall of 2005. That was another very special moment for me going back into the shop that I had not seen since the day of Donnie's funeral. It gave me a lump in the throat.
If Donnie were alive today he would be very proud of his son. Don has grown into a fine young man who works hard every day and does what it takes to provide for his family. We look forward to the next time we get an opportunity to head to NC and do more biking and visiting.
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
[Re: MIKES_DUSTER]
#160774
02/07/09 01:26 AM
02/07/09 01:26 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,101
Yes
sixpakdodge
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,101
Yes
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Quote:
How many Mopar Missle Dusters are there??
1. It started off as a '72 and was converted to a '73.
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
[Re: Mopar Missile JP]
#160780
02/10/09 09:27 AM
02/10/09 09:27 AM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Hey Joe, good seeing ya again. Got any funny stories about the brand-X guys? Particularly the Grump?? Dick was mentioning something about a midwest match-race.
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Re: Official Joe Pappas Q & A Thread. **Joe's Da' MAN
#160781
02/14/09 10:55 AM
02/14/09 10:55 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
Mopar Missile JP
Back To The 70s With J.P.
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Back To The 70s With J.P.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 67
Howell, MI
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Quote:
Hey Joe, good seeing ya again. Got any funny stories about the brand-X guys? Particularly the Grump?? Dick was mentioning something about a midwest match-race.
Mike,
This is the type of stuff that someone could write a book about... The best I can do right now is to take some of this stuff a little at a time.
When it comes to Jenkins, I'm not sure exactly what story Dick told, but my memories of him were that his nickname was very appropriate - 'da Grump. Jenkins' cars only looked really good the first day of the season. After that they went downhill. Dick and I took great pride in keeping the Missile pristine and so did a lot of other teams especially Sox, Landy, Grothier, Bagshaw, Vanke, etc. Jenkins - not so much...
One of the guys in brand X world that was really fun to race against was Nicholson. Don was absolutely a dedicated soul but you could most definitely rattle his cage. Carlton mamaged to convince Nicholson at Bristol one time that he (Carlton) was just going to get up to the tree and "leave" on Nicholson. Well, those two met in the final and poor old Nicholson starts pulling into the lights - lights up the top bulb and just flat takes off - RED LIGHT!!! We all got quite a laugh out of that!
There are a number of other stories that are probably left best untold if you know what I mean, but over the next couple of weeks I will try to gather up some of those old memories and post them here for everyone to get a few chuckles over.
Joe Pappas
MOPAR MISSILE
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Ron
If only we had been 5 years older at the time.
