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Holley Fuel Pump Issues
#1593362
03/15/14 06:39 PM
03/15/14 06:39 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Guys, I am starting to get the Charger back on the road for the spring time and I am noticing an issue creeping up that I ran into last year. The issue I had was the car would fire up great and run fine while cold but as soon as it warmed up, it would simply die and wouldn't be able to be re-started until it was pretty much cooled down. I went through the motions of tons of troubleshooting and swapping parts and finally found the root issue to be the fuel pump which had a partially failed delivery valve. (Thanks again to everyone who helped me here with that!!) I replaced the pump (Holley 12-440-11) with a new unit and problem solved. The old pump had sat while the car was being restored for quite a few years so I didn't think twice about it going bad. However, a year and 1200 miles later, I noticed that the Charger is starting to stumble AFTER I accelerate and let off the gas. Today I was driving it and it cut off and I was under no real acceleration at the time. I coasted to a stop and fired it back up and drove home. This feels very much like the issue I had before. Sure enough when I looked at the fuel filter, I got a few chunks of rubber in it. Only place the rubber can come from is the pump so I am guessing maybe we are looking at a failure coming. Is this a problem with theses Holley pumps?? I do have the 10% ethanol crud here but I do always treat it with Stabil to help fight this. Even so, for this pump to begin to break down over a year...seems kinda of crappy. Has anyone else run into issues with the Holley 12-440-11 pump dying like this? Obviously, I am going to go to another pump when I take this turd off. Can anybody recommend me a fuel pump that will work with treated ethanol on a 499 stroker STREET car? I am looking for experiences where somebody here can tell me that their pump has lasted for quite a while with no issues. Any other ideas for me to avoid this happening again? I am tired of replacing these $135 fuel pumps every year! 
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Re: Holley Fuel Pump Issues
[Re: DartS]
#1593364
03/15/14 09:13 PM
03/15/14 09:13 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Quote:
I had one on my 340. Lasted 1 year and quit. Never buy a Holley again. Went with the Carter and no problems for years. Seems the ethanol gas didn't bother it either.
Can you give me a link or part# for the pump you are using now? 
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Re: Holley Fuel Pump Issues
[Re: cjskotni]
#1593365
03/15/14 09:41 PM
03/15/14 09:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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I have run Holley electric pumps all my life since the mid 70's and never had a major problem other then pumps that were more then 10 years old. I had the red pump on my car for 7 years and have the black pump on it now with no trouble. I did have a red pump that sat for 5 years in a garage and it rusted up but that did not surprise me. Oh the red pump on my sons Dart we replaced 2 years ago when we thought it was acting up and losing pressure at times. But it had been on the Dart since 1997 so that was about 15 years on that pump. I have not seen any go bad so fast as you said yours did. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 03/15/14 09:43 PM.
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Re: Holley Fuel Pump Issues
[Re: 383man]
#1593366
03/15/14 10:07 PM
03/15/14 10:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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First I'd make sure the tank is completely clean. Sounds like non ethanol E10 ain't available in your area so unfortunately you are stuck there. I'd search for a pump built with the modern ethanol compatible neoprene/gaskets etc and that any neoprene lines are made of the good ethanol compatible stuff. I believe stabil only prolongs the storage life of gasoline but does not make ethanol any less hazardous to pump gaskets/valves. & there is a bottle of stabil available that says for ethanol but same deal it is to enhance the storage life of ethanol not to help combat ethanols' corrosiveness.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Holley Fuel Pump Issues
[Re: cjskotni]
#1593367
03/15/14 10:15 PM
03/15/14 10:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
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I have had a few Holley pumps fail on me so I quit using them.I use a Carter competition pump on my car now and it's been working perfect for about 5 years now. Mine has 100 gph and 15 psi so I have to run a regulator but they make same pump with 8 psi. Here's the link http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-p4600hp/overview/Gus 
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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Re: Holley Fuel Pump Issues
[Re: topside]
#1593369
03/15/14 11:14 PM
03/15/14 11:14 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Ok I guess I should clarify that I am running a mechanical fuel pump and don't intend to change that anytime soon. The only rubber fuel line I have left is the 4" run from the hard line to the fuel pump inlet which I do need to change out. From the fuel pump outlet to the carb is all PTFE line. The fuel filter is right before the carb. Gas tank is brand new as is sending unit. The little rubber hose from the fuel sender to the hard line is new and a piece of hose that is supposedly specially ethanol safe. The hard line is stainless steel. So with that in mind, what is a good mechanical pump to run for my setup?
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Re: Holley Fuel Pump Issues
[Re: cjskotni]
#1593370
03/16/14 01:41 AM
03/16/14 01:41 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Mech pump/no elec correct? Just me I'd take out the sender & eyeball the tank to see if the rubber pieces are coming from the gas station pump lines/hoses (reportedly it is common). I'd want a 3/8 line/no sock. If the tank is clean I'd get a parts house "airtex" replacement pump & drill out the 2 long barrels & solder in nipples for the 3/8 line. I ran this OE replacement pump (SB) on a circle track 360 (370 cubes) with 5/16 line & NO starvation at 6200 RPM WOT at the end of the straights (next year going to run a redrilled one as described just to be sure). I've never run a carter mech but I've heard of the "Carter Curse". #1 if the tank is clean you might just get another Carter pump & see if it holds up. What is your filter micron size? I'd want 10 micron hi flow right before the carb. If the tank is clean & you do have newish lines etc not sure I'd need or want a filter before the pump but I'd suggest a high flow 100 micron unit if I did & it would protect the pump if you toss the sock (which I would).
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Holley Fuel Pump Issues
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1593371
03/16/14 01:45 AM
03/16/14 01:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Sorry about that as I thought you ment an electric pump. I just assumed it was electric without reading the complete post. Thats what happens when I am in a hurray.  Ron
Last edited by 383man; 03/16/14 01:51 AM.
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Re: Holley Fuel Pump Issues
[Re: cjskotni]
#1593372
03/16/14 02:41 AM
03/16/14 02:41 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 66
New York
DartS
member
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member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 66
New York
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Quote:
Quote:
I had one on my 340. Lasted 1 year and quit. Never buy a Holley again. Went with the Carter and no problems for years. Seems the ethanol gas didn't bother it either.
Can you give me a link or part# for the pump you are using now?
Yours is a big block so you would use this one. Carter M4862 - Carter Strip Super Mechanical Fuel Pump
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Re: Holley Fuel Pump Issues
[Re: DartS]
#1593373
03/16/14 09:04 AM
03/16/14 09:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,065
Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,065
Niles , Ohio
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We had just the opposite.3 bad Carters in a row.2 BBs and 1 SB.I put the old 30 year old Holley on my kids BB and it worked fine.We both run Holleys and my last one was about 22 years old.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: Holley Fuel Pump Issues
[Re: cjskotni]
#1593374
03/16/14 09:16 AM
03/16/14 09:16 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
Guys,
I am starting to get the Charger back on the road for the spring time and I am noticing an issue creeping up that I ran into last year. The issue I had was the car would fire up great and run fine while cold but as soon as it warmed up, it would simply die and wouldn't be able to be re-started until it was pretty much cooled down.
I went through the motions of tons of troubleshooting and swapping parts and finally found the root issue to be the fuel pump which had a partially failed delivery valve. (Thanks again to everyone who helped me here with that!!)
I replaced the pump (Holley 12-440-11) with a new unit and problem solved. The old pump had sat while the car was being restored for quite a few years so I didn't think twice about it going bad.
However, a year and 1200 miles later, I noticed that the Charger is starting to stumble AFTER I accelerate and let off the gas. Today I was driving it and it cut off and I was under no real acceleration at the time. I coasted to a stop and fired it back up and drove home.
This feels very much like the issue I had before. Sure enough when I looked at the fuel filter, I got a few chunks of rubber in it. Only place the rubber can come from is the pump so I am guessing maybe we are looking at a failure coming.
Is this a problem with theses Holley pumps?? I do have the 10% ethanol crud here but I do always treat it with Stabil to help fight this. Even so, for this pump to begin to break down over a year...seems kinda of crappy.
Has anyone else run into issues with the Holley 12-440-11 pump dying like this? Obviously, I am going to go to another pump when I take this turd off. Can anybody recommend me a fuel pump that will work with treated ethanol on a 499 stroker STREET car? I am looking for experiences where somebody here can tell me that their pump has lasted for quite a while with no issues.
Any other ideas for me to avoid this happening again? I am tired of replacing these $135 fuel pumps every year!
Tell us more about the install details(plumbing). I doubt that it's the pumps fault, some thing is causing the pumps to fail.
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Re: Holley Fuel Pump Issues
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#1593375
03/16/14 09:22 AM
03/16/14 09:22 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
I have had a few Holley pumps fail on me so I quit using them.I use a Carter competition pump on my car now and it's been working perfect for about 5 years now. Mine has 100 gph and 15 psi so I have to run a regulator but they make same pump with 8 psi.
Here's the link http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-p4600hp/overview/
Gus
the Carter pumps don't cavatate as easy as a holly pump, so that's why they seem better in some cases,imo.
I got to ask...
Please tell, is that filter is mounted on the discharge side of the pump?
The inlet plumbing should be one size larger than the discharge, on just about every pump, not just fuel pumps.
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Re: Holley Fuel Pump Issues
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1593376
03/16/14 11:10 AM
03/16/14 11:10 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
|
Quote:
Tell us more about the install details(plumbing). I doubt that it's the pumps fault, some thing is causing the pumps to fail.
This is a single mechanical pump setup with no electric pump. That ain't going to change. I guess I am a lucky one but I haven't had any issues with vapor lock or hard starting with my setup thus far...
I have the following plumbing:
new tank (spectra) >>> 3/8" SS sender >>> 4" or so of Neoprene 3/8" hose >>> 3/8" SS hard line >>> 6" -6AN rubber braided hose >>> 1/4NPT pump inlet >>> 1/4 NPT outlet >>> 22" -6AN PTFE hose >>> filter (40 micron -6AN fittings) >>> 4" -6AN PTFE hose >>> carb
So I run more or less a supped up factory setup. Only thing I can think off is the piece of braided rubber line right before the pump might be letting go and giving up the rubber chunks. However, I replaced this with a new piece last year but I can swap out again.
One thing that leads me to think something is up with the pump is that when the old pump went bad, when I cracked the fuel filter to check it right after the car was running, it had no fuel in it. When I installed the new pump, it would be full to the brim and make a huge mess of course.
Now that I checked the filter right after parking the car, the filter is pretty much dry where I need to tip it down quite a bit to get fuel to run out of it. Seems that a good pump is supposed to hold pressure and bleed down very slowly after the motor is turned off. Obviously this isn't happening anymore.
This just 'feels' like the pump again. Car runs GREAT while warming up and then when it's good and warm I give her a good amount of throttle for 2-3 seconds and AFTER I let off the motor starts to stumble and lose power. Afterwards I can hold the gas steady and you can feel it starting to surge and lose power.
I swear how can I be so unlucky with pumps?? Of all things this is supposed to be a simple thing! 
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Re: Holley Fuel Pump Issues
[Re: Triggerfish]
#1593380
03/16/14 01:47 PM
03/16/14 01:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Quote:
Have you checked your fuel pump pushrod & is it a repop or oem?
I went thru a vapor lock & fuel starvation issue with my hemi &
my 383 and both were due to repop pushrods being too short.
Both times, even after brand new hi vol pumps were installed, the
issue got worse.
When you said your filter bowl was almost empty, that of the exact same thing experienced.
Original pushrod and looked brand new when I swapped the pump last year. The fact that the filter bowl was full after the new pump was swapped and the car has run great for almost a year kind of makes me think this isn't the issue. I could be wrong but I'm not using a repop...
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Re: Holley Fuel Pump Issues
[Re: cjskotni]
#1593381
03/16/14 01:53 PM
03/16/14 01:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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You know what I'd do  , I'd toss a (cheap/readily available) parts house pump on there right now with a fitting or two to mate it up with your lines & take her out for a spin & that'd tell me if it is or is not the pump then go from there
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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That pump looks exactly like the Holley pump I have now right down to the 1/4" NPT fittings. I wonder what the difference is? Could they be made by the same manufacturer?
