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#1592890 - 03/19/14 04:12 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: Consulier]
ntstlgl1970 Offline
mopar

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 531
Loc: Sac, CA, USA
I like this solution better than the electric assist as part of a rack since you can retrofit to more cars. Interested to see how you mount this up under the dash, assuming you need to add some extra support to counter the forces from the assist unit (tie into the pedal box/dash/firewall)? Also cool since it removes some weight from the front of the car and one less belt driven accessory. How much current does one of these pull? - wait I found it. 80A. So other than packaging, the only upgrade would be a high amp alternator it looks like.


Attachments
8080598-epsvue.jpg (193 downloads)



Edited by ntstlgl1970 (03/19/14 04:27 PM)

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#1592891 - 03/19/14 08:14 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: ntstlgl1970]
PHJ426 Offline
master

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 3456
Loc: Fly Over States
Is electric power assist steering better or just different?

It's definitely high tech either way.

I know my Ford Flex will parallel park itself with no driver input. I don't live in the city so I never use that feature of the electric power assist steering controls.

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#1592892 - 03/20/14 12:39 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: PHJ426]
Dan@Hotchkis Offline
super stock

Registered: 05/22/12
Posts: 841
Loc: Santa Fe Springs, CA
Step 4: Alternator Bracket Design

One of trickiest parts about swapping an engine from one vehicle into another is getting all of the engine accessories to clear all of the sheet metal of the new vehicle's engine bay. After we swapped the modern 392 HEMI into our Project '76 Dart, we found that the factory alternator was just too big to fit without some serious modification to the car. Luckily, there was a better option than modifying the car to fit the alternator - finding an alternator to fit the car! The reason we could do this is because the factory alternator that came with the engine was designed to put out a lot of amperage to be able to support a modern vehicle's massive electronic system. Because this was going into a race car with minimal electronics we could utilize a smaller alternator that generated less amps, but we had to design an all new mounting bracket for it.

After selecting the new alternator, we set out looking at the available mounting holes in the block to determine the design of the new bracket. We needed to be able to move the alternator up to clear the chassis and forward to bring the pulley into alignment. Once we measured the location of the mounting holes we were able to make our initial design of the bracket out of cardboard to verify clearance and make the final adjustments to the design.





The next step in the process was to create a temporary metal bracket that we would use to really fine tune the alternator's position to ensure proper belt alignment before we fabricate the final version of the bracket.






See more images of the alternator bracket design here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hotchkis/sets/72157640291514085/

Step Five: Transmission Tunnel

The design requirement of the transmission tunnel on Project '76 Dart was much different than what most people are used to seeing. Because of the types of racing that Kevin will be doing, he asked that the front half of the tunnel be removable so that the transmission can be serviced and removed through the tunnel itself - much like in professional rally cars.

The first step of the process was to create the frame of the transmission tunnel. This framework was also tied into the safety cage through the supports rails for the racing buckets.






The next step was to construct the transmission tunnel support hoops which included both a removable hoop over the transmission as well as an integrated drive shaft safety hoop just aft of the front driveshaft yoke.







Now that all of the support hoops were in place, we were able to move forward with fabricating the skin of the tunnel itself. The permanent rear section of the tunnel was the first to be completed. After creating patterns to match the contour of the floor pan, we sketched out the locations for the tack welds onto the finished piece and secured it into place.






Next it was on to the first removable section which covers most of the transmission. The sheet metal was bent into shape and structural tack weld points were identified before the new piece was secured onto the front and rear brackets.




Here is the view down the mostly complete transmission tunnel. More updates to come soon.



For more pictures of the transmission tunnel fabrication click here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hotchkis/sets/72157642564086195/

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#1592893 - 03/20/14 01:34 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: Dan@Hotchkis]
Consulier Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 253
Loc: USA
Few more reasons behind the alternator bracket...

1) Yes, you could use a stock 6.4 alternator and chop into the frame rail.

2) I didn't want to have to buy an almost $400 alternator (stock 6.4)

3) I don't need an alternator that kicks out 220 amps (stock 6.4)

4) The 5.7 alternator for VVT engines is still about $250 and is 160 amp, but the VVT's seem to not be readily available at regular parts stores.

I wanted to be able to go to any parts store, pick up a standard 5.7 Hemi alternator and be on my way. I don't want to be stuck somewhere without a simple option for replacement.
_________________________
Thanks,

Kevin Wesley



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#1592894 - 03/20/14 01:41 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: PHJ426]
Consulier Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 253
Loc: USA
Quote:

Is electric power assist steering better or just different?

It's definitely high tech either way.

I know my Ford Flex will parallel park itself with no driver input. I don't live in the city so I never use that feature of the electric power assist steering controls.




To me it's both. Different because you dump all the hydraulics and engine driven stuff. Better because it's adjustable (dial in the assistance), it fits and less weight.

There is still going to be a draw on the engine with the alternator, so not sure what the difference in HP would be between the two.
_________________________
Thanks,

Kevin Wesley



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#1592895 - 03/20/14 02:13 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: Consulier]
72Swinger Offline
master

Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 4284
Loc: Nebraska
Quote:

Few more reasons behind the alternator bracket...

1) Yes, you could use a stock 6.4 alternator and chop into the frame rail.

2) I didn't want to have to buy an almost $400 alternator (stock 6.4)

3) I don't need an alternator that kicks out 220 amps (stock 6.4)

4) The 5.7 alternator for VVT engines is still about $250 and is 160 amp, but the VVT's seem to not be readily available at regular parts stores.

I wanted to be able to go to any parts store, pick up a standard 5.7 Hemi alternator and be on my way. I don't want to be stuck somewhere without a simple option for replacement.


6.4 cover must be different than 6.1, my alt clears good with lip removed off frame.
_________________________
Mopar to the bone!!!

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#1592896 - 03/20/14 02:30 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: 72Swinger]
brads70 Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 810
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Love the tranny tunnel! Nice work!

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#1592897 - 03/20/14 02:44 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: 72Swinger]
Consulier Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 253
Loc: USA
Quote:

6.4 cover must be different than 6.1, my alt clears good with lip removed off frame.




VVT cam moves it out 1/2 inch of something like that, so you can't use the 6.1 or earlier 5.7 alternators.
_________________________
Thanks,

Kevin Wesley



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#1592898 - 03/20/14 06:51 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: Consulier]
PHJ426 Offline
master

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 3456
Loc: Fly Over States
Quote:

Quote:

Is electric power assist steering better or just different?

It's definitely high tech either way.

I know my Ford Flex will parallel park itself with no driver input. I don't live in the city so I never use that feature of the electric power assist steering controls.




To me it's both. Different because you dump all the
hydraulics and engine driven stuff. Better because it's
adjustable (dial in the assistance), it fits and less weight.


There is still going to be a draw on the engine with the
alternator, so not sure what the difference in HP would be
between the two.





If you go by the physics of it....energy cannot be created or destroyed. ...only change forms. I see it as different and cool from my geek electrical / electronics / instrumentation background. Depending on how much you can tune it for the response you like and for the feedback you get is what I will be keeping a look out for. Are there other vendors selling controllers for this as well or is this option currently a one vendor deal?

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#1592899 - 03/20/14 06:58 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build *Updated 20 March 2014 [Re: Dan@Hotchkis]
RylisPro Offline


Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 2143
Loc: NorCal
Awesome build!
Kind of makes me want to go aluminum Gen III rather than aluminum LA
_________________________

/Drive
Instagram: @rylispro
www.rylispro.com
925-214-9192

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#1592900 - 03/22/14 04:33 AM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build *Updated 20 March 2014 [Re: RylisPro]
Pale_Roader Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 4124
Loc: the frozen wastes...

Neat build, but you guys sure aren't worried about weight are you...??? Starting with the heaviest A-body ever made and adding a LOT ov weight.

If FullMetalJacket wandered in here from the race-only section he'd have a stroke looking at those pictures...

Whats it going to weigh? Any idea?

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#1592901 - 03/22/14 09:54 AM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build *Updated 20 March 2014 [Re: Pale_Roader]
Consulier Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 253
Loc: USA
Quote:


Neat build, but you guys sure aren't worried about weight are you...??? Starting with the heaviest A-body ever made and adding a LOT ov weight.

If FullMetalJacket wandered in here from the race-only section he'd have a stroke looking at those pictures...

Whats it going to weigh? Any idea?




Under 3000. It started as a Dart Lite, so far from the heaviest a body.
_________________________
Thanks,

Kevin Wesley



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#1592902 - 03/22/14 12:33 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build *Updated 20 March 2014 [Re: Consulier]
PHJ426 Offline
master

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 3456
Loc: Fly Over States
From the searching around I have done on the EPS it appears that at low speeds the motor can draw as much as 50 - 60 amps in low speed maneuvering. If your doing a weekend of short low speed auto cross I would just monitor the voltage on the battery and see how it's handling it.

Granted your car has all the basics of a modern car, electric fuel injection, fuel pump, engine management and spark control along with the electric power steering.

If your battery voltage drops the engine management system will let you know.

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#1592903 - 03/22/14 03:47 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build *Updated 20 March 2014 [Re: Consulier]
mopardamo Offline
pro stock

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 1304
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Hello,

Love the build. What were the factors that made you go with the GT-700 trans? Did you consider the T56 and if so why did you choose not to use it?
Thanks

Damon
_________________________
New 528 Bullet for 71 Challey

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#1592904 - 03/22/14 03:55 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: Dan@Hotchkis]
boydsdodge Offline
super stock

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 711
Loc: Toronto, Ont, Canada
What a great and fun read.
Thanks for posting this fantastic build.

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#1592905 - 03/22/14 06:57 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build *Updated 20 March 2014 [Re: Consulier]
72Swinger Offline
master

Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 4284
Loc: Nebraska
Quote:

Quote:


Neat build, but you guys sure aren't worried about weight are you...??? Starting with the heaviest A-body ever made and adding a LOT ov weight.

If FullMetalJacket wandered in here from the race-only section he'd have a stroke looking at those pictures...

Whats it going to weigh? Any idea?




Under 3000. It started as a Dart Lite, so far from the heaviest a body.


Is this thing going to have glass panels Kevin?
_________________________
Mopar to the bone!!!

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#1592906 - 03/22/14 07:29 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build *Updated 20 March 2014 [Re: mopardamo]
Consulier Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 253
Loc: USA
Quote:

Hello,

Love the build. What were the factors that made you go with the GT-700 trans? Did you consider the T56 and if so why did you choose not to use it?



It started as a car that was all bolt together with no extra fab required. That has changed a bit. So, I already had the trans based on that.

Ultimately it didn't fit courtesy of the final engine position required for the headers and that required some tunnel mods. Since it was getting cut out anyway, might as well make it removable. Plus I needed good seat mounts and just tying something into the stock tunnel isn't very stong.
_________________________
Thanks,

Kevin Wesley



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#1592907 - 03/22/14 07:36 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build *Updated 20 March 2014 [Re: 72Swinger]
Consulier Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 253
Loc: USA
Quote:

Is this thing going to have glass panels Kevin?



Not to start. We'll see where the weight shakes out and if I need to put it on more of a diet.

Since it's a Dart Lite, the hood and decklid will only save about 40lbs.
_________________________
Thanks,

Kevin Wesley



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#1592908 - 03/28/14 12:48 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build *Updated 20 March 2014 [Re: Dan@Hotchkis]
perlhaqr Offline


Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 2
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Quote:

I think the cat is pretty much out of the bag as to Hotchkis building a 76 Dart for Kevin on this site. The guys working on the car are the same folks who assemble all of our components we sell as well. So I think it is time for some pictures!

A good roll cage will tie into the unibody structure in as many places as possible. Not only does this make the vehicle safer, but it dramatically increases the rigidity of the unibody, reducing chassis flex during hard cornering. Here you can see the installation of the A-pillar gussets that are critical for driver safety in the event of a roll over.



The next step to reinforcing the front end was to tie these new bars into the upper shock mounts. Like the star-shaped mounts on the firewall, these mounts are fabricated out of 16-gauge sheet metal and are designed to disperse the tremendous forces the upper shock mounts will see during racing events.





Now it was time to work on the bay bars that will tie the two shock towers together. Here is the finished product with the ends trimmed down for access to the bolts for easy removal:







Well, dang. That's sure some amazingly pretty fabrication.

Please keep updating as you go along!

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#1592909 - 03/28/14 01:04 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build *Updated 20 March 2014 [Re: Dan@Hotchkis]
perlhaqr Offline


Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 2
Loc: Albuquerque, NM


What's the extension on the front side of the engine mount for?

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