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Re: HIgh output alternators [Re: cjskotni] #1588921
03/07/14 04:23 PM
03/07/14 04:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089
Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline
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Quote:



I have this alternator on my Charger. It looks perfectly OEM and dropped right on. No fabbin or modifying anything....






BTW cjskotni ...is it posible to post an actual pic of the alt you got ?


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: HIgh output alternators [Re: NachoRT74] #1588922
03/07/14 04:38 PM
03/07/14 04:38 PM
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Lakeland FL
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floridian Offline OP
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Agreed, I want to increase output at idle.. I am interested when I have mine tested next week what it does put out at idle?????

I did purchase a new roundback from Rock auto.. supposed to put out 55 amps, but it seems to put out less at idle than my old alternator.. Just a few hundred RPM makes a huge difference...

What about the Billet customs from Quality power auto.. 125 amps at idle?? Expensive but what do our cars need ( amps) at idle??

Re: HIgh output alternators [Re: NachoRT74] #1588923
03/07/14 05:05 PM
03/07/14 05:05 PM
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North Carolina
cjskotni Offline
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Quote:

I was allmost to pull the trigger for the TuffStuff alt, but emailed them asking for iddle specs and told me their alt put at iddle around 45 amps. That retracted me on pull the trigger.

I don't need 100 amps alt max output, I need/wish 55 amps at iddle.




I'm not sure who you talked to, but their own spec shows 60 amps at idle (800 engine RPM). I think that is a bit generous as it starts to discharge slightly when my loads approach 50-55 amps when the car is idling (750 RPM). These alternators drop off fast when you lower RPM's so if you aren't idling at 800 RPM in gear, then you are already going to be lower than the advertised idle output of any alternator.

Before this I tried the 78 amp squareback, and this one is perceptibly better. I'm not going to say way better but it doesn't discharge as deeply when those electric fans go on at idle. At idle, this one seems to put out around 8-10 more amps than the 78 amp unit. This 8-10 amps make a big difference when you want to hit another accessory like lights, A/C, etc. Now with the 100 amp unit, worst case is I discharge maybe 5-10 amps when idling with EVERYTHING on which never happens. I also converted to LED lighting just about everywhere which helps on the load. I don't get the wild right swinging needle anymore when I take off after idling.

Here is a picture of the little you can see of my alternator. It's buried under heater hoses and my A/C lines...

Re: HIgh output alternators [Re: cjskotni] #1588924
03/07/14 05:06 PM
03/07/14 05:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni Offline
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Re: HIgh output alternators [Re: floridian] #1588925
03/07/14 05:18 PM
03/07/14 05:18 PM
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North Carolina
cjskotni Offline
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Quote:

What about the Billet customs from Quality power auto.. 125 amps at idle?? Expensive but what do our cars need ( amps) at idle??




This is what I measured with clamp gauges on my 1973 Charger:

- engine ignition circuit 15 amps
- electric choke 1 amp
- Retro sound stereo (no external amp) < 1 amp
- headlights 13 amps
- brights 18 amps
- electric fans 20 amps (you don't have)
- A/C clutch 4 amps
- HVAC blower 5-8 amps
- interior/exterior/brake lighting (LED) 4-5amps

Pick your loads and add them up! Your lighting circuit will be considerably higher than mine if you don't have LED bulbs. I would say 10-12 amps higher.

Some discharge is OK if it happens occasionally and isn't deep like over 5-10 amps or so. It is the deep discharge/deep charge cycles that occur when you idle then take off that wear out these harnesses and melt connectors/gauges etc. Puny alternators that are 10-20+ amps behind at idle and then have to replenish that charge every time you stop/go will wear out the wiring.

Re: HIgh output alternators [Re: cjskotni] #1588926
03/07/14 07:24 PM
03/07/14 07:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089
Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

I was allmost to pull the trigger for the TuffStuff alt, but emailed them asking for iddle specs and told me their alt put at iddle around 45 amps. That retracted me on pull the trigger.

I don't need 100 amps alt max output, I need/wish 55 amps at iddle.




I'm not sure who you talked to, but their own spec shows 60 amps at idle (800 engine RPM). I think that is a bit generous as it starts to discharge slightly when my loads approach 50-55 amps when the car is idling (750 RPM). These alternators drop off fast when you lower RPM's so if you aren't idling at 800 RPM in gear, then you are already going to be lower than the advertised idle output of any alternator.

Before this I tried the 78 amp squareback, and this one is perceptibly better. I'm not going to say way better but it doesn't discharge as deeply when those electric fans go on at idle. At idle, this one seems to put out around 8-10 more amps than the 78 amp unit. This 8-10 amps make a big difference when you want to hit another accessory like lights, A/C, etc. Now with the 100 amp unit, worst case is I discharge maybe 5-10 amps when idling with EVERYTHING on which never happens. I also converted to LED lighting just about everywhere which helps on the load. I don't get the wild right swinging needle anymore when I take off after idling.

Here is a picture of the little you can see of my alternator. It's buried under heater hoses and my A/C lines...




THAT'S what I did know to know!!!

and GREAT THANKS FOR THE PICS..

when I asked they didn't know to response the next question I did too, how do they looked like ? like lates 70s and 80s ( 78 amps ) alts which are wider and stator hidden by the housing or really they are like the ones our car should get, with stator visible between housing halves!!!

so THEY ARE correct look for our cars!!!

now... thinking again on pull the trigger someday in the future!!!


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: HIgh output alternators [Re: cjskotni] #1588927
03/07/14 07:35 PM
03/07/14 07:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089
Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline
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Quote:


Some discharge is OK if it happens occasionally and isn't deep like over 5-10 amps or so. It is the deep discharge/deep charge cycles that occur when you idle then take off that wear out these harnesses and melt connectors/gauges etc. Puny alternators that are 10-20+ amps behind at idle and then have to replenish that charge every time you stop/go will wear out the wiring.




as I say ( with my poor english ) here:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33574.0/all.html


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: HIgh output alternators [Re: NachoRT74] #1588928
03/11/14 03:55 PM
03/11/14 03:55 PM
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Lakeland FL
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floridian Offline OP
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Small update here:

Had my old alternator ( not the rebuilt on the car) tested. Puts out 55 amps total.. Alternator store was unable to spin it at low RPM to tell me what it puts out at idle..

Did have the car out the other night.. Really doesn't do to bad ( voltage wize) at night until I turn on the heater at idle..

Did look into Quality power Autos high charge at idle claim on there hipo alts.. There Stats showed idle speed of 2500 RPM?? What kind of shmoo is that?? I am going to call them and see if they can tell what kinda amp output at 800 rpms...

Re: HIgh output alternators [Re: floridian] #1588929
03/11/14 04:02 PM
03/11/14 04:02 PM
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Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni Offline
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Quote:

Small update here:

Had my old alternator ( not the rebuilt on the car) tested. Puts out 55 amps total.. Alternator store was unable to spin it at low RPM to tell me what it puts out at idle..

Did have the car out the other night.. Really doesn't do to bad ( voltage wize) at night until I turn on the heater at idle..

Did look into Quality power Autos high charge at idle claim on there hipo alts.. There Stats showed idle speed of 2500 RPM?? What kind of shmoo is that?? I am going to call them and see if they can tell what kinda amp output at 800 rpms...




Alternators are commonly specified in alternator RPM which with a standard pulley, is 3x engine RPM. So 2400 alternator RPM is considered 'idle' which correlates to 800 engine RPM with a standard pulley.

Re: HIgh output alternators [Re: cjskotni] #1588930
03/11/14 05:24 PM
03/11/14 05:24 PM
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Posts: 1,574
Lakeland FL
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floridian Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

Small update here:

Had my old alternator ( not the rebuilt on the car) tested. Puts out 55 amps total.. Alternator store was unable to spin it at low RPM to tell me what it puts out at idle..

Did have the car out the other night.. Really doesn't do to bad ( voltage wize) at night until I turn on the heater at idle..

Did look into Quality power Autos high charge at idle claim on there hipo alts.. There Stats showed idle speed of 2500 RPM?? What kind of shmoo is that?? I am going to call them and see if they can tell what kinda amp output at 800 rpms...




Alternators are commonly specified in alternator RPM which with a standard pulley, is 3x engine RPM. So 2400 alternator RPM is considered 'idle' which correlates to 800 engine RPM with a standard pulley.




thanks for explaining that.. Makes sense

Re: HIgh output alternators [Re: floridian] #1588931
03/12/14 09:52 PM
03/12/14 09:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,368
Michigan
MarkZ Offline
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Michigan
I bought the 60amp Denso and associated brackets from Mancini when I went to Edelbrock heads. With the old factory setup it would do the same thing you're describing, but with the new Denso, even at only 60 amps total, the idle charging issues cleared right up.

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/de60ampal.html


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
Re: HIgh output alternators [Re: cjskotni] #1588932
03/12/14 10:19 PM
03/12/14 10:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,435
So Cal
Sinitro Offline
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So Cal
Quote:

Quote:

What about the Billet customs from Quality power auto.. 125 amps at idle?? Expensive but what do our cars need ( amps) at idle??




This is what I measured with clamp gauges on my 1973 Charger:

- engine ignition circuit 15 amps
- electric choke 1 amp
- Retro sound stereo (no external amp) < 1 amp
- headlights 13 amps
- brights 18 amps
- electric fans 20 amps (you don't have)
- A/C clutch 4 amps
- HVAC blower 5-8 amps
- interior/exterior/brake lighting (LED) 4-5amps

Pick your loads and add them up! Your lighting circuit will be considerably higher than mine if you don't have LED bulbs. I would say 10-12 amps higher.

Some discharge is OK if it happens occasionally and isn't deep like over 5-10 amps or so. It is the deep discharge/deep charge cycles that occur when you idle then take off that wear out these harnesses and melt connectors/gauges etc. Puny alternators that are 10-20+ amps behind at idle and then have to replenish that charge every time you stop/go will wear out the wiring.




The 20 amps for electric fans looks low..
Usually thats the draw per fan...
Also they typically pull even more when Powered ON..

Just my $0.05...

Re: HIgh output alternators [Re: Sinitro] #1588933
03/13/14 12:52 AM
03/13/14 12:52 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni Offline
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quote]The 20 amps for electric fans looks low..
Usually thats the draw per fan...
Also they typically pull even more when Powered ON..

Just my $0.05...





Manufacturer specs state 20 amp draw and this was confirmed with a professional set of clamp gauges. When the fans engage, it does have a momentary spike of around 40 amps but only for about a half second. This is common with any inductive load like a motor.

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