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Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: mopowers] #1585443
03/06/14 02:33 PM
03/06/14 02:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 125
kalispell montana
jwilson 61 Offline
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kalispell montana
Could it be a broken valve spring, The inner damper could be allowing the valve to close at low RPM but bring it up and it can no longer be controlled, I've seen it on a few chevy's like that


70 cuda 440 6bbl Auto with a dana 60
68 road runner QQ1 383 auto
1970 6 barrel 4 speed Superbird FY1 number matching
15 Challenger 6.4 SRT pearl White 6 Speed
72 Cuda 440 5 speed
71 Road Runner 440 4 speed
Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: jwilson 61] #1585444
03/06/14 02:45 PM
03/06/14 02:45 PM
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Sac, CA
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mopowers Offline OP
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Quote:

Could it be a broken valve spring, The inner damper could be allowing the valve to close at low RPM but bring it up and it can no longer be controlled, I've seen it on a few chevy's like that




I will check for that this weekend when I pop off the valve covers.

Would that cause a voltage drop?

Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: mopowers] #1585445
03/06/14 02:56 PM
03/06/14 02:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 193
Sharpsburg Maryland
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440farmer Offline
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The car would pop at 1/2 to WOT back through the carb
chased electrical for a while then took of the valve covers -ran out of things to try.

Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: mopowers] #1585446
03/06/14 03:01 PM
03/06/14 03:01 PM
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Posts: 401
Norway
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General 68 Offline
mopar
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Norway
You have to address the voltage drop first. Visually check that the main- and starter studs on the starter relay for space between the wire terminals. They are close to each other so the terminals might actually jump a spark and engage the starter for a moment and pull down voltage.
If ok, run a jumper wire from battery + to ignition side of ballast resistor and disconnect the original wire from ballast. If this cures it you have limited the problem down to ignition switch and ignition wiring.

Still no go? Eliminate the starter relay by disconnecting the black(?) Starter solenoid wire from starter relay after starting the car. Test again.

Also check starter terminals for space between solenoid- and battery terminals. They might be close to touching eachother depending on how wires were mounted.

Please check this before you tear into the engine!

Let us hear what you find.

Lars

Last edited by General 68; 03/06/14 03:09 PM.
Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: General 68] #1585447
03/06/14 05:11 PM
03/06/14 05:11 PM
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Sac, CA
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mopowers Offline OP
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Quote:

You have to address the voltage drop first. Visually check that the main- and starter studs on the starter relay for space between the wire terminals. They are close to each other so the terminals might actually jump a spark and engage the starter for a moment and pull down voltage.
If ok, run a jumper wire from battery + to ignition side of ballast resistor and disconnect the original wire from ballast. If this cures it you have limited the problem down to ignition switch and ignition wiring.

Still no go? Eliminate the starter relay by disconnecting the black(?) Starter solenoid wire from starter relay after starting the car. Test again.

Also check starter terminals for space between solenoid- and battery terminals. They might be close to touching eachother depending on how wires were mounted.

Please check this before you tear into the engine!

Let us hear what you find.

Lars




Thanks for the help, Lars. I'll certainly give those suggestions a try. How do I know which side of the ballast is the ignition side? Most of the wires are all taped up.

Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: mopowers] #1585448
03/06/14 08:19 PM
03/06/14 08:19 PM
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Norway
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General 68 Offline
mopar
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Norway
Ignition or 12v side of ballast resistor is the opposite side from the tab that is wired to coil +. Not sure for your car but the ignition wire is usually blue with white tracer. The wire runs between ballast and 'ign' on ignition switch.

Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: General 68] #1585449
03/06/14 08:25 PM
03/06/14 08:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,097
Western Md.
skicker Offline
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Just thinking out loud here. Is there a chance the battery is low? The only reason I asked is mine has a one wire charging system on it that does not charge at idle. As soon as I rap the throttle I get an instant spike in the amp gauge. I didn't know if there was any way a voltage drop or spike might rob or add enough power from the ignition to create the pop? For chits and giggles I'd unhook the alternator and make sure it isn't in that part of the electrical system. more


...FAFO...
Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: skicker] #1585450
03/07/14 01:10 PM
03/07/14 01:10 PM
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Sac, CA
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mopowers Offline OP
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Got an update for you guys. I swapped out coils with another one I had just to eliminate that from the equation and it didn't help anything.

Next thing I did was disconnect the wire sending power from the starter relay to the starter. I hooked up a momentary switch directly from the battery to start it from under the hood. Once running, I brought up the RPMs and sure as $hit, it didn't pop!!!

After I figured that out, I hooked everything back up and packed some electrical tape in between the power and starter terminals on the relay thinking it could be shorting, but it didn't solve anything.

So at this point, I figure it's probably a bad relay, right??? Why would it be intermittently sending power to the starter when RPMs are raised?? Strange...

Either way, I'm stoked that I've isolated the issue and am excited to get it back on the road. Thanks for all the help guys.

Last edited by mopowers; 03/07/14 01:43 PM.
Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: mopowers] #1585451
03/07/14 01:31 PM
03/07/14 01:31 PM
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Posts: 401
Norway
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General 68 Offline
mopar
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Norway
Good find! Did you run a jumper from battery + to ballast too? If not, you have only isolated the problem to starter relay AND ignition switch/wiring. Run that jumper without disconnecting starter solenoid wire. If it pops it is the starter relay. I have seen worn ignition switches cause strange things also.
Please tell us what the exact problem is when you find it.
Lars

Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: General 68] #1585452
03/07/14 01:52 PM
03/07/14 01:52 PM
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Sac, CA
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mopowers Offline OP
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Quote:

Good find! Did you run a jumper from battery + to ballast too? If not, you have only isolated the problem to starter relay AND ignition switch/wiring. Run that jumper without disconnecting starter solenoid wire. If it pops it is the starter relay. I have seen worn ignition switches cause strange things also.
Please tell us what the exact problem is when you find it.
Lars




Great point. I guess I'm getting ahead of myself. I was just stoked to get it to run right last night. I'll run a jumper 12v to the ballast tonight and let you know what happens.

Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: mopowers] #1585453
03/07/14 04:39 PM
03/07/14 04:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 427
Sweden
Mopar Guy Offline
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Sweden
I dont whant to give you more headake but i realy hate the Mopar Performance orange boxes ! There have been alot of bad manufacured sold on the open market so if you know any one that have a old true box try to test that one insted if you can and i would realy recomend a old crome one if you can find one becas they are even better then the orange for the street. It may not be the resone for your misfire trubbel but even how itīs my experience and i have dropt over to the Revnator my self and have no complains on that product that alos have a revlimiter built in that i can change easy

Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: Mopar Guy] #1585454
03/07/14 05:31 PM
03/07/14 05:31 PM
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Sac, CA
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mopowers Offline OP
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Quote:

I dont whant to give you more headake but i realy hate the Mopar Performance orange boxes ! There have been alot of bad manufacured sold on the open market so if you know any one that have a old true box try to test that one insted if you can and i would realy recomend a old crome one if you can find one becas they are even better then the orange for the street. It may not be the resone for your misfire trubbel but even how itīs my experience and i have dropt over to the Revnator my self and have no complains on that product that alos have a revlimiter built in that i can change easy




Yeah, I see what you're saying. I did try a different box to no avail last weekend. At some point, I'll probably switch ignition boxes, but for now I'm gonna go with what I've got so I can get this thing drivable. Thanks for the input though. I may end up going with a Revenator eventually myself.

Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: mopowers] #1585455
03/08/14 06:08 PM
03/08/14 06:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 427
Sweden
Mopar Guy Offline
mopar
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Sweden
Quote:

Quote:

I dont whant to give you more headake but i realy hate the Mopar Performance orange boxes ! There have been alot of bad manufacured sold on the open market so if you know any one that have a old true box try to test that one insted if you can and i would realy recomend a old crome one if you can find one becas they are even better then the orange for the street. It may not be the resone for your misfire trubbel but even how itīs my experience and i have dropt over to the Revnator my self and have no complains on that product that alos have a revlimiter built in that i can change easy




Yeah, I see what you're saying. I did try a different box to no avail last weekend. At some point, I'll probably switch ignition boxes, but for now I'm gonna go with what I've got so I can get this thing drivable. Thanks for the input though. I may end up going with a Revenator eventually myself.




You will defenetly like the Revenator Hope you solve your issue soone so you can hit the road whit a smile

Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: Mopar Guy] #1585456
03/09/14 01:40 AM
03/09/14 01:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,487
God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340 Offline
top fuel
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God's Country Maryland
I'd say the two wires at the starter are very close to touching. As you rev the engine it torques to the right pulling on the wiring harness causing the wire connectors to touch, engaging the starter, causing the voltage drop and the lights to dim. Make sure the wires at the starter are away from each other and the big wire is not touching the small post.

Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: GODSCOUNTRY340] #1585457
03/10/14 11:52 AM
03/10/14 11:52 AM
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Sac, CA
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mopowers Offline OP
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I pulled the yellow wire going from the ignition switch to the starter relay (at the relay) and it stopped the problem. I put a test light on the yellow wire terminal at the relay (with it disconnected) and it has power with the key in the run position. The test light only lights up in 'run' when the car was running. Weird??? Shouldn't this wire only have power with the key in the 'start' position? This is the one that energizes the relay when you start the car.

Another thing I noticed was the test light was dim with the car running but as I brought the RPMs up, it got brighter. Maybe this means as the RPMs come up, there is enough power to energize the relay causing the problem???

I traced this wire up to the firewall and it looks as though the previous owner tapped into it for the electronic ignition too.




Last edited by mopowers; 03/10/14 12:04 PM.
Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: mopowers] #1585458
03/10/14 12:02 PM
03/10/14 12:02 PM
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Norway
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General 68 Offline
mopar
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Norway
Yes, that yellow wire is only hot when key is in 'start' position. I suggest that you remove all wires spliced to the yellow wire. Still a problem? Go on checking the igniton switch.

Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: General 68] #1585459
03/10/14 03:42 PM
03/10/14 03:42 PM
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Sac, CA
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mopowers Offline OP
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So, if I cut the 'start' side of the ballast that's tapped into the yellow starter wire, where should that be reconnected? Should I tap into the brown wire coming from the switch?

Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: mopowers] #1585460
03/10/14 04:13 PM
03/10/14 04:13 PM
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Posts: 401
Norway
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General 68 Offline
mopar
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Norway
Correct. Brown wire bypasses ballast when starter is engaged. If the ballast bypass is tapped from the yellow starter wire this will create a connection between the 6-9 volts at ballast and your yellow starter wire. In your case it seems like you get enough juice to make the starter relay engage at 1800 rpm:-)
Go back to OEM wiring and problem should be solved (unless the reason for the former owner to rewire the bypass was a faulty ignition switch).
Lars

Last edited by General 68; 03/10/14 04:15 PM.
Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: General 68] #1585461
03/11/14 04:02 PM
03/11/14 04:02 PM
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Sac, CA
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mopowers Offline OP
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Quote:

Correct. Brown wire bypasses ballast when starter is engaged. If the ballast bypass is tapped from the yellow starter wire this will create a connection between the 6-9 volts at ballast and your yellow starter wire. In your case it seems like you get enough juice to make the starter relay engage at 1800 rpm:-)
Go back to OEM wiring and problem should be solved (unless the reason for the former owner to rewire the bypass was a faulty ignition switch).
Lars




Thanks for the help. Pretty sure I've finally got this figured out. I did look at the directions for the mopar perf. electronic ignition though. Looks like they say to tap into the yellow starter wire to power the 'crank' side of the ignition... Weird!

Here's the diagram straight out of the instructions:


Re: Coughing/popping when revved [Re: mopowers] #1585462
03/11/14 05:05 PM
03/11/14 05:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 528
SW CO
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mopar
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SW CO
Have you checked your alternator output voltage as you rev the engine? Maybe your voltage regulator is bad and it's producing too much voltage and that's pulling the starter relay in.


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