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Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: gdonovan] #1577822
02/14/14 12:54 PM
02/14/14 12:54 PM
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Someplace you aren't
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SomeCarGuy Offline
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It says something when guys who can get any other carb to work right can't get the 750 Eddy to go like it should. What does it say about a carb if you would need a wideband to tune it, when that isn't necessary to tune other carbs on the same engine?

I'm not saying a wideband isn't a good thing, but I am saying that points to an issue with one particular style of carb that requires one to tune.


I want my fair share
Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: SomeCarGuy] #1577823
02/14/14 01:02 PM
02/14/14 01:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
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Quote:


I'm not saying a wideband isn't a good thing, but I am saying that points to an issue with one particular style of carb that requires one to tune.




I think you are confusing the issue- No one is saying its required, what was stated was it is the best way for any carb.

Spent several weeks trying to get a Holley working respectable on my GTX, I hated every minute of it.

Holley's idea of good drivability is or was YOU WILL RUN RICH ALL THE TIME and with an O2 gauge staring me in the face painfully obvious.

I eventually got it working in a reasonable manner but it was still weak sauce compared to the TQ that proceeded it. The TQ had better transitions with much fewer lean/rich swings when going from one circuit to another.




"I think its got a hemi"
Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: gdonovan] #1577824
02/14/14 04:24 PM
02/14/14 04:24 PM
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Posts: 18,880
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RSNOMO Offline
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Quote:

Quote:



I eventually got it working in a reasonable manner but it was still weak sauce compared to the TQ that proceeded it. The TQ had better transitions with much fewer lean/rich swings when going from one circuit to another.




Thank-You...

When I hear the word 'Holley', I run...

What a PITA...

At its most simplistic, look at an exploded view of a Holley, and compare that to a Carter...


There's a whole bunch'a Carter's runnin' in these parts...

And they RUN...

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: 71birdJ68] #1577825
02/14/14 04:47 PM
02/14/14 04:47 PM
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U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

He never did say which series he had.




There is no 750 in the Thunder series only 650 and 800. the thunder series would be a better choice for a street car wit hthe tunable secondary air door.

Dwayne Porter ran a performer series in a dyno test on his stocker 383 , it's in the tech archive , it was a turd , he swapped on the carter version of the same carb and it ran so much better , Ebrock has the carb made to their specs and it would appear that it is a different internal calibration than the carter version.

I have one of the old carter versions , great carb , I HAD the ebrock

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: RSNOMO] #1577826
02/14/14 05:26 PM
02/14/14 05:26 PM
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Graham, WA
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Polarapete Offline
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Graham, WA
I have some experience with the Eddy 750 and it was not good, but I think my problems were self-inflicted. I built the engine in my '64 Polara from a PAW kit and I literally put it together OOTB. It had stock type "346" heads, 2.08 x 1.74 Valves, 2355F .030 pistons, steel crank, heavy 6-pack rods, the MP 284* x .484 Hydraulic cam with Rhoads lifters, MP Aluminum low profile manifold. The block was decked and the heads were milled enough so much so that I had to have the manifold cut to fit. I used the '68 to '70 Magnum exhaust manifolds that were on the car and the rest of the exhaust was as I got it in 1997. I first used a Eddy 600 CFM carb and it ran very well, I even got 14 mpg on one leg of the first trip to Reno.

And then I started tinkering with it, I changed to the RoadRunner Repro cam & kit to get better driveability, changed to the "452" heads with 2.14x1.81 valves and mild port work, added the Eddy 750 and had the DC Electronic Distributor re-curved. I know now that I went the wrong direction. I should have changed to a higher than 1964 stall converter and opened up the exhaust to improve air flow through the engine. That would have given me the drivability and performance I wanted and would have cost a lot less than what I had spent. Finally I sold the Eddy 750 to a friend and went with a Barry Grant 750 Vacuum Secondary and really saw no improvement. My friend put a kit into the Eddy 750 and is very pleased with the way his basically stock 440 runs in his '66 Fury Convert. The Polara hardly ever left my garage and I sold it in 2010 with a new Eddy 600 CFM. It now lives in Chicago.


1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction
1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver.
2008 Honda Element
2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: JohnRR] #1577827
02/14/14 06:10 PM
02/14/14 06:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
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Quote:



Dwayne Porter ran a performer series in a dyno test on his stocker 383 , it's in the tech archive , it was a turd , he swapped on the carter version of the same carb and it ran so much better , Ebrock has the carb made to their specs and it would appear that it is a different internal calibration than the carter version.





Two words- Strip Kit.

No calibration is perfect for all engines, if you think the carb is a "sealed unit" then you might be the problem. This is true with any carb, Holley hides its shortcomings by running rich to cover the bad spots.

Carters are very easy to setup, after reading the book on Carters and how they operate it was very easy to dive in and make changes to suit my needs and have a carb with razor sharp throttle response, good mpg with excellent WOT. Just change one circuit at a time and when its perfect move onto the next.




"I think its got a hemi"
Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: gdonovan] #1577828
02/14/14 06:48 PM
02/14/14 06:48 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

Quote:



Dwayne Porter ran a performer series in a dyno test on his stocker 383 , it's in the tech archive , it was a turd , he swapped on the carter version of the same carb and it ran so much better , Ebrock has the carb made to their specs and it would appear that it is a different internal calibration than the carter version.





Two words- Strip Kit.





No kidding, I also have the carter book , the performer series is a mediocre carb best suited for use on 350 chevies ...

I'm pretty sure that Dwayne knows his way around a carb but I'll pass on that sage bit of advice in case he misses this thread

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: JohnRR] #1577829
02/14/14 07:48 PM
02/14/14 07:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
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Quote:



I'm pretty sure that Dwayne knows his way around a carb but I'll pass on that sage bit of advice in case he misses this thread




1) The way it was written there is an implication that the carb was not rejetted, i.e. "it was swapped out" The castings are virtually the same. I have rebuilt both Edelbrock and Carter AFB carburetors with excellent results.

2) Dyno testing which consists of just WOT pulls should have the fewest problems. Care to point us in the direction of this article? It contradicts what I and others experience including class racers who state the difference between Holleys and AFB's is slight. I'd like to read the details myself rather than from someone else second hand.




"I think its got a hemi"
Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: gdonovan] #1577830
02/14/14 09:52 PM
02/14/14 09:52 PM
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oklahoma
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forphorty Offline
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Quote:

Quote:



I'm pretty sure that Dwayne knows his way around a carb but I'll pass on that sage bit of advice in case he misses this thread




1) The way it was written there is an implication that the carb was not rejetted, i.e. "it was swapped out" The castings are virtually the same. I have rebuilt both Edelbrock and Carter AFB carburetors with excellent results.

2) Dyno testing which consists of just WOT pulls should have the fewest problems. Care to point us in the direction of this article? It contradicts what I and others experience including class racers who state the difference between Holleys and AFB's is slight. I'd like to read the details myself rather than from someone else second hand.


http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/25.html

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: forphorty] #1577831
02/15/14 12:25 AM
02/15/14 12:25 AM
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Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
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"Ebrock 750, #1407 with stock calibration"

"it was calibrated to the specs in the catalog."

He never changed the calibration, you were saying?

What I stated holds true, carburetors are NOT sealed units, they need proper jetting and settings for the engine they are to be used on.

Holleys get away with more because they are setup rich out of the box.




"I think its got a hemi"
Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: gdonovan] #1577832
02/15/14 03:02 AM
02/15/14 03:02 AM
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JohnRR Offline
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Quote:



What I stated holds true, carburetors are NOT sealed units, they need proper jetting and settings for the engine they are to be used on.






The problem is there are more people that think they are sealed units than don't.

He had ZERO intention of using that carb , it was just a test to see where it was out of the box. Did you skip over the part where he swapped on the CARTER 750 , which you state is the SAME CARB, and the engine didn't run like a piece of crap ? But again ZERO INTENTION of running that carb either. A strip kit is just jets, rods and springs, it does nothing if the carb itself, with incorrect size internal passages, is the problem.

I still stand by my thoughts and comments on this particular carb, it sux and I no longer waste money or time with one and will steer someone away from it if I can ... no matter if SOME have had good luck with it or not. There are better carbs out there.


Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: JohnRR] #1577833
02/15/14 05:34 AM
02/15/14 05:34 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Bend,OR USA
I think most of you guys commenting on the Eddy 750 forget who Edlbrock sells a majority of the carbs to, it is not Mopar people Most standard replacement carbs are calibrated and designed to be ran on Chevy motors I have tried to tune a 750 Holley D.P. carb. on a 383 SB Chevy by reading the spark plug,, when I got it tuned to make the spark plug look like I would like to see in any of the Mopars I've tuned the owner said it didn't run as good as it did when the spark plugs where black we took it to the track, LACR and he was right, the SB Chevy wanted to be a lot richer on the jetting than any of the other Mopar motors with a 750 Holley D.P. wantedto be at the track I bought a Carb. Shop 1050 Dominator that they had dyno tested on one of thier dyno mule motors, 408 SB Chevy with some power and torque, when we put that same carb. on one of my bracket 440 motors is was way to fat, calibrated all wrong for the 440 A stock OOTB Holley List # 9375 made around twenty HP and similar Ft lbs. of torque more than thier wazzu custom built carb. did It is all about the tune and calibration to get any carb. dialed in for your motor BTW, a wide ban is one of my new best tools


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: JohnRR] #1577834
02/15/14 09:04 AM
02/15/14 09:04 AM
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Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
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Quote:



The problem is there are more people that think they are sealed units than don't.






Then they are very much in the wrong hobby and are in the vast minority, perhaps its just were you live.

Quote:


He had ZERO intention of using that carb , it was just a test to see where it was out of the box.





Wait- Did you not state "he knew his way around a carburetor" and now you are stating something else? huh.

Quote:


Did you skip over the part where he swapped on the CARTER 750 , which you state is the SAME CARB, and the engine didn't run like a piece of crap ?





You have reading comprehension issues my friend, I stated they were virtually the same castings. Jetting, metering rods and spring rates make a huge difference.

Quote:


But again ZERO INTENTION of running that carb either. A strip kit is just jets, rods and springs, it does nothing if the carb itself, with incorrect size internal passages, is the problem.





And you know this how? You picked a poor example "as proof" and display a bit of ignorance about how the AFB's are constructed. I have a problem taking your word on the subject as to the shortcoming of this particular carburetors design. On the other hand I own several Edelbrock and Carter AFB's and they all work great and have rebuilt and tuned several hundred over the decades for a living (including Holleys, TQ's and AVS not to mention non-mopar stuff like quadrajets and even the horrible VV carb from Ford!) for other people without issue.

A single example in which the user freely admits making no changes to the unit is not a sweeping indictment on Edelbrock carbs.

I find it amusing that people will spend vast amounts of time on Holley carbs "drilling this circuit" or "swapping out this air bleed" or "trying this modification" but won't spend some time learning how AFB's work which are the simplest of devices.

But that's ok, more for me ;-)




"I think its got a hemi"
Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: gdonovan] #1577835
02/15/14 12:06 PM
02/15/14 12:06 PM
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You are beating your head against the wall. JohnRR is a rock, if something doesn't conform then it's not him, its whatever.

Most guys who think they know how to tune a carb have no clue, especially the ones that just slap a Holley on and go cause it's "perfect". Guess what Holley deliberately tuned those carbs for that "I know how to tune a carb, but don't" crowd. Just like JRR.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: Supercuda] #1577836
02/15/14 12:42 PM
02/15/14 12:42 PM
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Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
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Quote:

Guess what Holley deliberately tuned those carbs for that "I know how to tune a carb, but don't" crowd.




Back in the day when I participated in "unsanctioned acceleration events" the look on peoples face when I told them I was running a Carter was precious. They always expected to see a Holley in there and for some reason always looked let down when there wasn't.

I always took immense gratification relieving them of their cash afterwards.

Was never part of the "speed secret of the week" club. Sharp tuning and careful selection of parts for the package went far compared to "experts" advice.




"I think its got a hemi"
Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: gdonovan] #1577837
02/15/14 01:06 PM
02/15/14 01:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Brookeville, Md
bottom line you can run TWO Carter/Eddys or ONE Holley, I guess the choice is yours. There is NO WAY to get the power of a 750DP/HP carb from one Eddy 750...or 800 Thunder. It's just not going to happen. The Out of the box Edddy 750 is not going to run well on a mild BB, even w/ the strip kit. However an out of the box Holley 750 will w/ a few turns of the screw driver.
The Eddy 750 isn't bad, it's just not meant for all out performance.

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: gdonovan] #1577838
02/15/14 01:23 PM
02/15/14 01:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
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90% of what I have run over the last 40 + years have been AFB/AVS/TQ in just about any configuration,single carb/cross ram/long ram and 2x4,"NEVER" had any tuning issues with any combination.Only variance from Carter was/is the 6pk cars I have owned then and now.I read post after post of some of you who don't have a clue what is going on,then ask a question and get a dozen different answers,and you are still at square one.There are reliable sources for just about anything,find one and get it right,you will be much happier at days end.

If you want a prime example.go to FBBO and look at a few of the threads on overheating issues,it will boggle your mind.

My sig pretty much sums up my thoughts,also the phrase "been there,done that" goes back a long way with me,eventually you get the picture.

Everybody take a deep breath and have a great day !!

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1577839
02/15/14 01:34 PM
02/15/14 01:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
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Quote:

There is NO WAY to get the power of a 750DP/HP carb from one Eddy 750...or 800 Thunder. It's just not going to happen.




ahem.

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/25.html

If I looked at the chart correctly, the difference between the best Holley and the best Carter was 6 hp and the best Carter number beat out several of the Holley carburetors.




"I think its got a hemi"
Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: gdonovan] #1577840
02/15/14 02:00 PM
02/15/14 02:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 222
Onalaska, Wi
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sixtyninefuchs Offline
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Onalaska, Wi
I have a stock 1407 edelbrock carb on a street hemi with an m1 (crate engine intake)

It starts great, runs great, and is fast.

It has run 12.82 @ 107 mph 4120#

I suppose a holley would get me in the 11's!!!!

Re: why the hatred for the eddy 750 carb [Re: sixtyninefuchs] #1577841
02/15/14 02:25 PM
02/15/14 02:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

I have a stock 1407 edelbrock carb on a street hemi with an m1 (crate engine intake)

It starts great, runs great, and is fast.

It has run 12.82 @ 107 mph 4120#

I suppose a holley would get me in the 11's!!!!




no but I bet it'd run 12.55 or better.

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