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“Frankenstein” is DEAD! ** The Autopsy report is in ** #1574597
02/05/14 08:03 PM
02/05/14 08:03 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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You may have read in one of my previous post I broke a rod going through the traps at our final bracket race (I got the win light but I’d trade it for 8 more passes to finish the year as I had planned on replacing the rods this winter). It knocked the side out of the Mega block, messed up several cylinders, broke the cam and of course destroyed the other rod on that journal and put shrapnel on all the other pistons.

I assumed the Mega block was gone but we were able to repair it since the damage was non-structural, just pain rail and side, so as long as it welded up well enough to hold in oil and the pan, we were good. Since I was only at 4.380 on the bore, we were able to go to 4.440 on the bore and that cleaned up the cylinders. (we also pressure checked the block and it held pressure, even though there was some pretty major damage to the bottom of the cylinders)

We turned/off-set ground the K1 crank from 4.15 stroke with Mopar rod journals to 4.25 and Chevy 2.2 rod journals. I pick up a set of used Eagle rods from a friend (only had 69 passes on them). Bought new set of Diamond Pistons. I also picked up a damaged roller cam and had it re-ground.

So I’m wondering how much it will pick up, I’m thinking .15 or .2 with the extra 26 cubic inches, longer stroke (4.25 from 4.15 with 7.100 rods) and roller cam and wanted to see what you guys thought?

Old combination: “Old Faithful”
(has been together for 6 year with about 1,500 passes on it, has been as fast as 9.40 at 145 with different heads (fully ported Zeekers) but with current combination best was 9.58 at 142)
500” Mega Block
- Indy 440-1 Heads that flow Int 309/ Exh 221 @ .700, (42/12 cfm improvement over out of the box head on my machinist flow bench)
- Harland Sharp 1.6 rockers (well I found out this winter that 6 of the 8 intake rockers were 1.5 ratio….)
- Scott Brown/Straight line Performance Solid Cam with EDM lifters .648/.640 lift, 274/280 @.050 duration, 112 Lobe Sep, Centerline 108 (installed straight up)
- Isky 9005 springs – 180 seat and 450 open pressure
- Ti retainer, Manley lash caps
- Indy single Dominator Intake
- K1 4.15 stroke with Mopar rod journals
- 440 Source I-beam 6.76 rods
- 4.380 Diamond Pistons (standard ring pack, 1/16, 1/16, 3/16)
- 12 to 1 compression
- Cometic 4.410 .040 head gaskets
- 1050 Chuck Nuytten Alcohol Dominator
- 2 1/8 headers, 4” exhaust with Borla 4” x 18” oval Sportsman Mufflers

-- Non-Motor info/setup --
- Evacuation system, no vacuum pump
- Moroso Center Sump oil pan with Milodon’s windage try, single line Static pickup and Pump cover with Melling HV oil pump
- J&J sportsman diaper with removable pig mat
- Australian Motorsports belt drive system
- MSD 7AL3, Pro Power Coil, Taylor 409 wires (moving to FireCore 50 wires)
- AR3911 plugs
- Enderle Mechanical Fuel Pump
- Shogun external water pump
- 1 wire chevy alternator
- ARC Pro Stock overhead Switch panel 3700
- 2 Red Top Optima AGM Batteries
- MasterLube 3 Qt Oil Accumulator System set at 75psi
- Castrol Syntec Synthetic 20w50 with 1 pint of Hughes Engines Extreeme pressure lubricant (Zinc additive) going to Rotela T6 synthetic 5w40 with roller cam this year
- 1/4” aluminum front motor plate, 1/8 steel mid plate and an engine limiter/strut that runs horizontally from the frame to the passenger side lower bell housing/tranny mount/bolt
- Powerglide (vlasco input, 1.80 straight cut gears, JW Ultra case, JW Ultra bell, JW/Mezire 8 bolt billet flex plate, TransKing electric shift Pro-brake valve body, roller bearing governor support, reworked/enhanced BTE stock case pump, external cooler with 10” fan)
- Dynamic 9” converter, stalled 5,500 but was slipping 13% and wasn’t locking up spinning the motor 7,600 in the 1/4
- Strange Engineering Chromalloy 3.5” drive shaft w/ 1350 u-joints
- Strange aluminum GT double adjustable 6” travel front struts with 4 piston caliper brakes, 28” Goodyear front runners
- Ladder bars with double adjustable AFCO struts with 120lbs QA1 springs (non-adjustable but putting in new rod ends and having a chassis guy make them adjustable for me this winter)
- 4.56 pro gears in a Dana 60 with stock drum brakes and strange billet 1350 yoke
- Moser 35 spline axels (10 years old and still look perfect, 1 was cut down and re-splined 2 years ago and swapped sides when we straightened up the Dana housing, housing was longer on one side than the other, now both axles are the same length)
- 14 x 32 Goodyears -1984
- Centerline Warrior Wheels 3.5” front and 12” rear – they are 18 years old, planned on replace them this year until I hurt the motor, need to move to 14” wheel and was thinking Weld V-Series, maybe next year…
-3,200 lbs race weight

New combination: “Frankenstein”
- 526” Mega Block
- K1 4.25 with 2.2 Chevy journal (Mopar width) (reusing the main bearings, they looked perfect)
- Eagle 7.100 rods (used but only had 69 passes and I know the motor they came out of, also reusing the bearings)
- 4.440 Diamond Pistons (standard ring pack, 1/16, 1/16, 3/16)
- 12.6 to 1 compression
- Fel-Pro 1039 .051 composite head gasket
- Lunati Roller Cam .678/.678 lift, 278/286 duration @.050, 112 Lob Sep, 108 Centerline (~.030 more lift, 6 degrees more duration on both int & exh, same Lobe Sep and Centerline)
(This was a damaged Lunati roller cam that I picked up in 2012 at Monster Mopar for $25 and had it reground using 53714LUN specs but keeping LS/IC)
- PAC 1325-16 Springs – 314 Seat and 752 open pressure (644lbs spring rate, installing at 1.910, bind at 1.150)
- New Valves but no porting, just standard valve job
- Harland Sharp 1.6 rocker (not mismatched 6 - 1.5 and 2 - 1.6 intake rockers)
- Milodon 31161 dragster/chassis pan, dual line swinging pick up, Muscle Motor Oil Pump cover, Milodon 21815 oil Pump with external fitting for 2nd pick-up line
- Dynamic 9” converter sent in to tighten it up on the top end but leave the stall around 5,500, want to shift at 6,800 and go through 1/4 at 7,000 – 7,200.

Essentially 26 more cubic inches, a little more stroke & bore, a little more compression, a little more cam(roller vs solid), better oiling system and a little tighter converter.


Wade Metzinger 918-809-0987
71 Cuda 9.28@145 -1s, Pglide
68 Cuda 10.64@124 1.45 60's 318->390 eddys
Moparts discount code on WIX - moparts www.Filter1.com
Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574598
02/05/14 10:14 PM
02/05/14 10:14 PM
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Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Those are some decent changes.More Cubes, comp, and cam. That cams going to be a bigger change then it looks numbers wise because its a roller.

Id say a Minimum of .2 maybe more like .3 to .4 Just a guess though because at 9.4 it does take alot more hp for gains to happen.

Last edited by Sport440; 02/06/14 02:47 AM.
Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: Sport440] #1574599
02/05/14 11:55 PM
02/05/14 11:55 PM
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dvw Offline
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Basically we've gained 26" and a roller cam. At your level it takes 20-25 HP/.10 gain. Personally the cubes shouldn't gain any HP, just torque, unless the heads were to large to start with. However with a glide at 3200lbs the extra torque could be beneficial. I think it all depends on the converter. If it's right it will pick up .10-.20
Doug

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: dvw] #1574600
02/06/14 01:43 AM
02/06/14 01:43 AM
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Oklahoma
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Probably only .10 without more head work

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: hemiiroc] #1574601
02/06/14 07:23 PM
02/06/14 07:23 PM
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WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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The heads have a lot left in them, I think my head porter's flow bench is a little stingy so that's why I include the from/to #'s and increase numbers. I asked him to basically clean them up, make all the ports flow the same and do a good valve job and for $500 it picked the car up 4 tenths.

What is typical flow for OOTB 440-1s at .700?

I'm good with .1 to .15 increase, it's fast enough as it is. I have a KB block on order so that 200lbs reduction will pick it up another .1 to .15.

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574602
02/06/14 08:06 PM
02/06/14 08:06 PM
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1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: pittsburghracer] #1574603
02/06/14 08:22 PM
02/06/14 08:22 PM
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WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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So if I uses those number for OOTB -1's 282/185 and he increased flow 42/12 it would be 332/197. Here are my flow numbers:

----- Intake -----
Lift OTB Ported Change
100 65 69 4
200 126 140 14
300 183 195 12
400 232 247 15
450 251 264 13
500 265 278 13
550 270 294 24
600 269 301 32
650 272 309 37
700 274 316 42


------ Exhaust ------
Lift OTB Ported Change
100 61 70 9
200 115 116 1
300 153 150 -3
400 182 181 -1
450 190 192 2
500 196 201 5
550 201 207 6
600 203 212 9
650 206 217 11
700 209 221 12

"Int / Exh %"
101%
83%
77%
73%
73%
72%
70%
70%
70%
70%

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574604
02/06/14 09:08 PM
02/06/14 09:08 PM
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Sport440 Offline
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The 1,s on that chart that I see are flowing 325 @.700 OOTB Ported there coming in at 350 to 370 @ .700

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: Sport440] #1574605
02/09/14 10:08 PM
02/09/14 10:08 PM
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Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin Offline
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MCH's 345cc CNC ported -1's flow around 382cfm, and can support 955hp...

I think the combo with a glide will like the stroke and compression increase and pick up .2 to .3

Good luck with it!

Arnie


67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...) 70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574606
02/09/14 10:27 PM
02/09/14 10:27 PM
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Quote:

The heads have a lot left in them, I think my head porter's flow bench is a little stingy so that's why I include the from/to #'s and increase numbers.


I noticed that in your original post, so I am guessing on another flow bench your heads might flow 340 or more.

I think 0.20 is there, and maybe a little bit more. I would have liked to see you add more CR by milling the heads or something. I am thinking the roller cam will like the finish line rpm better than the flat tappet did, so you will see a mph increase. (7600?, 4.56, 32", 142 mph)

Will your KB block be 4.500" bore? That should get your CR close to 13.0 and the alcohol will support much more. I would mill the heads when you build that motor.

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: 440Jim] #1574607
02/10/14 12:22 AM
02/10/14 12:22 AM
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WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Thanks guys for the input, sounds like I wasn't too far off.

Jim, no I'm starting out with a 4.360 bore, I really don't want to go much faster. It will be a 496" 4.15 stroke with these heads, cam, lifters and belt drive from the "Frankenstein" motor so it'll make less power but be 150 to 200 lbs lighter so it will probably another .10 faster still. I'm keeping the compression around 12:1. I may be off here but I've always thought that compression above 12.5 is harder on parts and makes power but not enough to justify to the abuse to me because I want to put a lot of passes on the motor without major maintenance. But that's just my theory I've picked up from my machinist. But I agree you need much more compression to make much more power.

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574608
02/10/14 02:26 AM
02/10/14 02:26 AM
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Sport440 Offline
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Quote:

Thanks guys for the input, sounds like I wasn't too far off.

Jim, no I'm starting out with a 4.360 bore, I really don't want to go much faster. It will be a 496" 4.15 stroke with these heads, cam, lifters and belt drive from the "Frankenstein" motor so it'll make less power but be 150 to 200 lbs lighter so it will probably another .10 faster still. I'm keeping the compression around 12:1. I may be off here but I've always thought that compression above 12.5 is harder on parts and makes power but not enough to justify to the abuse to me because I want to put a lot of passes on the motor without major maintenance. But that's just my theory I've picked up from my machinist. But I agree you need much more compression to make much more power.





Okay, now your losing me. The New engine was going to be a 526 ci. with 12.6 comp.

But now its a 496 with 12.1 comp.???

Your heads flow more then that stingy flow bench shows as others have mentioned.

So your new combo is not the 526 ci motor.????

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574609
02/10/14 02:29 AM
02/10/14 02:29 AM
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Quote:



New combination: “Frankenstein”
- 526” Mega Block
- K1 4.25 with 2.2 Chevy journal (Mopar width) (reusing the main bearings, they looked perfect)
- Eagle 7.100 rods (used but only had 69 passes and I know the motor they came out of, also reusing the bearings)
- 4.440 Diamond Pistons (standard ring pack, 1/16, 1/16, 3/16)
- 12.6 to 1 compression
- Fel-Pro 1039 .051 composite head gasket
- Lunati Roller Cam .678/.678 lift, 278/286 duration @.050, 112 Lob Sep, 108 Centerline (~.030 more lift, 6 degrees more duration on both int & exh, same Lobe Sep and Centerline)
(This was a damaged Lunati roller cam that I picked up in 2012 at Monster Mopar for $25 and had it reground using 53714LUN specs but keeping LS/IC)
- PAC 1325-16 Springs – 314 Seat and 752 open pressure (644lbs spring rate, installing at 1.910, bind at 1.150)
- New Valves but no porting, just standard valve job
- Harland Sharp 1.6 rocker (not mismatched 6 - 1.5 and 2 - 1.6 intake rockers)
- Milodon 31161 dragster/chassis pan, dual line swinging pick up, Muscle Motor Oil Pump cover, Milodon 21815 oil Pump with external fitting for 2nd pick-up line
- Dynamic 9” converter sent in to tighten it up on the top end but leave the stall around 5,500, want to shift at 6,800 and go through 1/4 at 7,000 – 7,200.






Essentially 26 more cubic inches, a little more stroke & bore, a little more compression, a little more cam(roller vs solid), better oiling system and a little tighter converter.




Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574610
02/10/14 10:24 AM
02/10/14 10:24 AM
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Quote:

I'm good with .1 to .15 increase, it's fast enough as it is. I have a KB block on order so that 200lbs reduction will pick it up another .1 to .15.




Sorry for the confusion, in one of my replies I mentioned that I have KB on order and Jim noticed and asked me about that but that motor will not be built for a while. This post and motor info is about the 526" repaired Mega block motor.

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574611
02/21/14 12:23 AM
02/21/14 12:23 AM
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WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Assembly is coming along, just a little slower than I'd like but this isn't the time to take short cuts and get into a rush.

Rotating assembly has been balanced, rods and pistons put together, rings filed (I got in a hurry and broke one..... One set was $30 so I just bought a full set for $102, I think I stretched one or two others so I may replace a few others)

2365 bob weight with eagle h-beam rods
Piston 596
Pins 178
Locks 5
Rings 58
Little end 242
Big end 593
Bearing x 2 48= 96
Oil 4

Degreed the cam in at 104.5. My machinist thinks the cam is to big with my 12.5 compression so we advanced it 4 degrees to increase the cylinder pressure at low RPM and give a little more bottom end.

Gapped the rings .020 top and .025 second to help keep the alcohol from washing the cylinders down.

Main clearance was .0015 to .002 so I got a set of King x bearings to get .003.

Rod clearance is .003 so they are good to go.

Rod side clearance is .032

Pistons are .011 in the hole

Ran out of time to check piston to valve and measure for push rod clearance. So I've only got 2 pistons installed. Hoping we don't have to cut the pistons for valve clearance because I've already put all the rods and pistons together and I'm running out of time. Our first points race is March 22.

Here are a few picture of the rods and pistons and the piston build card. They are diamond part number 52030 but changed to 4.440 bore. (4.25 stroke, 7.100 rod and 1.480 compression height) pins are standard pins, I've always upgraded the pins but when talking to diamond they told for my application the standard would work just fine.

8047560-image.jpg (377 downloads)
Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574612
02/21/14 12:24 AM
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Another piston pic

8047563-image.jpg (371 downloads)
Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574613
02/21/14 12:25 AM
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Piston pic 3

8047566-image.jpg (361 downloads)
Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574614
02/21/14 12:25 AM
02/21/14 12:25 AM
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Piston build card

8047569-image.jpg (396 downloads)
Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574615
02/21/14 05:09 PM
02/21/14 05:09 PM
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Quote:

They are diamond part number 52030 but changed to 4.440 bore. (4.25 stroke, 7.100 rod and 1.480 compression height) pins are standard pins, I've always upgraded the pins but when talking to diamond they told for my application the standard would work just fine.


A reliable source told me that several years ago most shelf pistons came with a 0.155" wall pin, but now-a-days Diamond is using 0.185" wall pins and your 178 gram weight confirms what you have. The 0.990 x 2.93 pins with 0.155" wall were around 150-155 grams.

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: 440Jim] #1574616
02/22/14 10:23 AM
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I think the changes are going to surprise you, and you will be a solid .20 or more quicker. You are increasing the motor size by five percent, the heads flow that much more, and the cam is bigger by more than that for sure. If rest of the package is close, the motor will pull very hard down low, and you may be able to shift it below 6800 and still go as fast. You could also run less gear. My 528 with 2.30 intake valves and full porting only wants 7100 rpm for best ET. I am also thinking that glide is going to love the extra cubes and compression.

Last edited by gregsdart; 02/22/14 10:30 AM.

8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574617
02/23/14 02:53 PM
02/23/14 02:53 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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"... ET increases..."
I think you mean ET reduction or improvement since an increase in ET means the car slowed down.
/

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: BradH] #1574618
02/23/14 03:40 PM
02/23/14 03:40 PM
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Edge Offline
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As mentioned above not likely to pick up a great deal of hp but torque will move up for sure. Should improve in the 60 foot however may not see MPH increase much more than 1 mph unless your converter was leaving alot on the table. I would guess .1 to ,15 increase. Maybe more depending on how the converter likes the converter changes. FWIW I have had best luck just getting a new converter as opposed to tweaking old ones.


76 Duster work in progress
Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: Edge] #1574619
02/23/14 09:43 PM
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Looks like a nice build Wade

I do have one question, is there any reason your leaving the piston to head @ .062" ?

I see your piston's are in the hole .011" and your using a .051" gasket.

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: roadhazard] #1574620
02/23/14 11:28 PM
02/23/14 11:28 PM
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One question, you stated "- Lunati Roller Cam .678/.678 lift, 278/286 duration @.050, 112 Lob Sep, 108 Centerline (~.030 more lift, 6 degrees more duration on both int & exh, same Lobe Sep and Centerline)".
Is this spec'd with 1.5 or with 1.6 rockers? If its .678" lift with a 1.5 rocker and you are using a 1.6, I think the spring will be very close to binding at lift. Documentation on those springs (PAC 1325) say bind at 1.150" which would make it real close, too close I would think. Just something to check.

The build looks cool to me I would put my money on at least .2 sec. quicker.

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: roadhazard] #1574621
02/24/14 01:57 PM
02/24/14 01:57 PM
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WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Quote:

Looks like a nice build Wade

I do have one question, is there any reason your leaving the piston to head @ .062" ?

I see your piston's are in the hole .011" and your using a .051" gasket.




The pistons just ended up .011 in the hole and I just thought I'd go with the Fel-Pro 1039 composite head gaskets. They work well for this bore and compression and were a lot cheaper than Cosmetics.

I didn't know where the pistons were in the block before ordering them. I'd rather run a .030 or .040 but I "think" .062 will work ok, let me know if you guys think I'm making a mistake and should go ahead and get a .040 Cometic gasket.

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: 540dust] #1574622
02/24/14 02:02 PM
02/24/14 02:02 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
Quote:



One question, you stated "- Lunati Roller Cam .678/.678 lift, 278/286 duration @.050, 112 Lob Sep, 108 Centerline (~.030 more lift, 6 degrees more duration on both int & exh, same Lobe Sep and Centerline)".
Is this spec'd with 1.5 or with 1.6 rockers? If its .678" lift with a 1.5 rocker and you are using a 1.6, I think the spring will be very close to binding at lift. Documentation on those springs (PAC 1325) say bind at 1.150" which would make it real close, too close I would think. Just something to check.

The build looks cool to me I would put my money on at least .2 sec. quicker.




I already did the conversion for the 1.6 rockers. The cam spec is for 1.5 and lift is .636 so with 1.6 the lift will be .678. When I spoke to PAC about the cam and springs they are the ones who told me to shoot for 1.910 install height so it would be a little closer to coil bind.

I didn't know I needed to add any more to the duration, so if your saying I need to add 6 degrees for the 1.6, my duration will be 284/292 rather than 278/286. Thanks for pointing that out.

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574623
02/24/14 02:31 PM
02/24/14 02:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,664
North Sweden
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Quote:

Quote:

Looks like a nice build Wade

I do have one question, is there any reason your leaving the piston to head @ .062" ?

I see your piston's are in the hole .011" and your using a .051" gasket.




The pistons just ended up .011 in the hole and I just thought I'd go with the Fel-Pro 1039 composite head gaskets. They work well for this bore and compression and were a lot cheaper than Cosmetics.

I didn't know where the pistons were in the block before ordering them. I'd rather run a .030 or .040 but I "think" .062 will work ok, let me know if you guys think I'm making a mistake and should go ahead and get a .040 Cometic gasket.




For better quench and to bump up the CR for the 112 LSA, yes I would buy .040 Cometics, or even .035 if they are available that size?
If your block surface and head surface are not smooth, maybe it is time to fix that to.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574624
03/11/14 02:03 PM
03/11/14 02:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Finally got all the machine work done and assembled the motor this weekend. We installed it in the car last night. Tranny is supposed to be finished tomorrow so we will put it in Thursday and then I’m taking Friday off to try to get everything hooked up and started and might be able to make it to Test-n-Tune Saturday. The chassis guy is also coming over Friday to install the modified ladder bars and scale/setup the car. (I had him make my not adjustable ladder bars adjustable without having to take them loose to adjust them).

Measured for pushrods and found that I needed to make some additional clearance for Pushrod in the heads and also for 2 of the HS rocker arms, the pad under the shafts (they weren’t touching but I couldn’t see day light either).

I hate doing clearance on the heads after they are fully assembled and ready to go from the machine shop (new Manley valves/locks/lash caps, PAC 1325 springs/Ti retainer, set up at 1.910 315lbs seat and 750 open) but it’s much better than doing it on the motor and in the car… Blew them off, washed in the parts washer, blew them off again and again.. Then I switched #1 spring with light springs so I could check pushrod clearance and see how much aluminum shavings were still there and they were pretty clean.

Ring Gap (running alcohol) 4.440 bore - .020 top and .025 2nd and oil rings pulled about 15lbs with the fish scale so I left them alone.
Total Seal Plasma Moly and ductile Iron rings 1/16 1/16 3/16 standard tension oil rings

Degreed the cam in at 104.5 (162 .05 after intake high lift + 47 before intake high lift = 209 /2), which is 4 degrees advanced from the cam card but it was set at 108 and said it was also 4 degrees advanced so I guess it’s in at 7.5 degree advanced. Machinist thought the cam was too big so he wanted me to install it at 104 to increase the cylinder pressure and get it to make good power down low. (.680/.680 284/292 @.050 112 lobe sep & 108 Intake center line (I bought it for $15 and had Lunati regrind it using 53714LUN specs but kept the LS/IC per Lunati for $150)

Rod Clearance .003

Main Clearance .003 (I had to order some x bearings because with the standard bearings I only had .0015 to .002)

Piston to Valve Clearance:
.100 Exhaust – (.060 measured + .25 lash + .15 for roller springs since I was using light checking springs)
.140 Intake – (.100 measured + .25 lash + .15 for roller springs since I was using light checking springs)

Rod side clearance .032

Crankshaft end play .003

Camshaft end play .012

Piston to Head Clearance .061 (.010 in the hole and .051 head gasket)

70 cc Indy 440-1 head chamber volume

13:1 compression (4.440 Bore, 4.25 stroke K1 crank, 7.100 Eagle Rods, 1.480 compression heights, .051/4.590 bore FelPro 1039 head gasket, .010 piston in the hole, -3.4cc piston valve reliefs, 70cc head combustion chamber volume.

Pre-oiled it with the drill motor, it had 80 psi so I adjusted it down to 65 using the Milodon adjustable oil pressure regulator. I’m starting it with Rotella 15w-40 and after a few weekends I’ll switch over to Rotella T6 Synthetic 5w-40. So the pressure will be a little high until I switch over to the Synthetic.

8069994-Motor_2014.JPG (283 downloads)
Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574625
03/11/14 02:51 PM
03/11/14 02:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 655
Huntsville, AL
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Huntsville, AL
Quote:

So if I uses those number for OOTB -1's 282/185 and he increased flow 42/12 it would be 332/197. Here are my flow numbers:

----- Intake -----
Lift OTB Ported Change
100 65 69 4
200 126 140 14
300 183 195 12
400 232 247 15
450 251 264 13
500 265 278 13
550 270 294 24
600 269 301 32
650 272 309 37
700 274 316 42


------ Exhaust ------
Lift OTB Ported Change
100 61 70 9
200 115 116 1
300 153 150 -3
400 182 181 -1
450 190 192 2
500 196 201 5
550 201 207 6
600 203 212 9
650 206 217 11
700 209 221 12

"Int / Exh %"
101%
83%
77%
73%
73%
72%
70%
70%
70%
70%




This is what my 440-1 heads (CNC 325 from Indy, fixed by Jim LaRoy in Idaho) flow. Before is as recieved, after is after his valve job. They could use bigger intakes to help the mid flows:

lift............before..........after

.100..........69/61.........80/68
.200........144/123......158/134
.300........215/172......226/183
.400........274/217......277/229
.500........321/251......320/265
.600........346/280......349/290
.700........362/301......368/307
.800........372/317......372/327


Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574626
03/11/14 11:38 PM
03/11/14 11:38 PM
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Joplin, Mo
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rt66jim Offline
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You are making nice progress Wade.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: rt66jim] #1574627
03/12/14 03:21 PM
03/12/14 03:21 PM
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Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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I had a little bit of a scare Monday night. When the motor blew last fall I didn't see any water in the diaper or pan so I assumed the damage didn't get into the water jackets. We pulled the header bolts out of the front and back of the headers as they held the diaper strap brackets to get the diaper off at the track so it wouldn't leak oil on the road all the way home (since it was holding 9Qts of oil). But after we got it home and let it sit for a week, when we went back out pull the motor I noticed there was some water/anti-freeze on the floor mixed in with the oil... We assumed it was coming from the header bolts but need to make sure.

So after we pulled the block and took it to the machine shop we pressure checked it and it held pressure so that's where is must have came from.

So Monday as we are about to put the motor in, I put the diaper on as it's easier to do before you get it in the car and look in the header bolt holes and they all appeared to be blind/solid holes.... (so now I'm questioning if we pressure checked it correctly... if they are blind hole where did the water come from, I have this motor completely assembled, pre-oiled and ready to put in and start this weekend.... am I just going to start it and find out the block is damaged and I'm going to have water in the oil....)

I mentioned this to a friend that was in the shop rebuilding my tranny and he took a look and he pointed out that there was a pin hole on the back/bottom of the front passenger side header bolt hole so I took another look and whew, there it was so now I feel much better now that I know where the water came from. It's just really hard to see. I typically put some silicon on the front and back header bolt just from the past with other heads but that was just out of habit and not because I thought I needed to...

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574628
03/13/14 01:23 PM
03/13/14 01:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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<cricket's chirping>

No one has any questions or comments?

I post to get feedback, learn from other and hopefully help some people out that may be learning (I can't begin to tell you how much I've learned from Moparts).

There have been over 400 views of this thread since I made the update post on Tuesday and only 2 comments....

<cricket's chirping>

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574629
03/15/14 09:21 AM
03/15/14 09:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
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Flint, Michigan
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Flint, Michigan
water in the oil is scary..glad you found the problem...guess we all have been thru that kind of thing...

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: ex_cuda_guy] #1574630
03/15/14 01:26 PM
03/15/14 01:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 778
Sherwood park, Alberta.
go green Offline
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Sherwood park, Alberta.
Get your KB block yet ?



6.50 @ 226 MPH 4.25 @ 186 MPH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX86DHGKBo0
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: go green] #1574631
03/15/14 02:23 PM
03/15/14 02:23 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,545
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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So the header bolt holes aren't blind?

Kevin

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574632
03/15/14 06:08 PM
03/15/14 06:08 PM
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Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Quote:

I had a little bit of a scare Monday night. When the motor blew last fall I didn't see any water in the diaper or pan so I assumed the damage didn't get into the water jackets. We pulled the header bolts out of the front and back of the headers as they held the diaper strap brackets to get the diaper off at the track so it wouldn't leak oil on the road all the way home (since it was holding 9Qts of oil). But after we got it home and let it sit for a week, when we went back out pull the motor I noticed there was some water/anti-freeze on the floor mixed in with the oil... We assumed it was coming from the header bolts but need to make sure.

So after we pulled the block and took it to the machine shop we pressure checked it and it held pressure so that's where is must have came from.

So Monday as we are about to put the motor in, I put the diaper on as it's easier to do before you get it in the car and look in the header bolt holes and they all appeared to be blind/solid holes.... (so now I'm questioning if we pressure checked it correctly... if they are blind hole where did the water come from, I have this motor completely assembled, pre-oiled and ready to put in and start this weekend.... am I just going to start it and find out the block is damaged and I'm going to have water in the oil....)

I mentioned this to a friend that was in the shop rebuilding my tranny and he took a look and he pointed out that there was a pin hole on the back/bottom of the front passenger side header bolt hole so I took another look and whew, there it was so now I feel much better now that I know where the water came from. It's just really hard to see. I typically put some silicon on the front and back header bolt just from the past with other heads but that was just out of habit and not because I thought I needed to...




2 of my header bolt holes on my current Indy -1 go into water. I believe they're supposed to be blind. I sealed them with no issue.
Doug

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: dvw] #1574633
03/15/14 10:27 PM
03/15/14 10:27 PM
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Joplin, Mo
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So Wade did you make it? And if so what did it run?

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: rt66jim] #1574634
03/16/14 02:52 AM
03/16/14 02:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Go green, no KB block yet, expect to see it this next week...

On mine the exhaust bolt farthest to the right as you looking at the motor from the side of the car is not blind and is in water so I just put red RTV on those two bolts.

Jim, I would have but they move test-n-tune from Saturday to Friday night because of the rain forecast for Saturday but it never rained... I was up till 3:30am Thursday night and worked all day Friday to try to make it out Friday night but didn't make it because of a small issuer with the tranny. We fired it up about 5:30 got it warmed up and then checked the tranny and it didn't move so we had to drop the pan and hook up something the tranny guy forgot about, luckily he was still there and was able to fix it.

So it was 7:45 when we were finally ready but by the time I would get to the track and be ready to make a pass it would have been 9:15 and the track would have been starting to get cold and I didn't think that was the best condition to make the first pass. So I just started to tie up loose ends and will be ready for nespxt weekend.

When I was mocking it up I noticed the push rod clearance was tight so I did so e grinding on the heads before putting them on but I didn't do enough so I did some additional clearancing on the heads today, hate doing that with them on the motor but I did all I could to get the shavings out. Thie witness marks in the lush rods told me where I needed to do the additional clearancing.

Started it up on gas and then ran it for about 20 minutes, about 5 of those at 200 so the rings should be good and seated. Then we switched it over to alcohol and adjust the carb, etc for another 10 min.

Checked valve lash and tightened the intake and exhaust bolts as it was cooling down. The cold oil pressure at idle was 60 and 40 hot at idle. Climbed up to 80psi we I rev'd it up.

I'm going to cut open the filter tomorrow and it should be ready to go.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574635
03/16/14 01:17 PM
03/16/14 01:17 PM
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Posts: 16,916
NC
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Quote:

I mentioned this to a friend that was in the shop rebuilding my tranny and he took a look and he pointed out that there was a pin hole on the back/bottom of the front passenger side header bolt hole so I took another look and whew, there it was so now I feel much better now that I know where the water came from.


Thanks for the heads up about the possibility of the Indy holes leaking water. My old 440-1 heads never leaked water from the header bolt holes. But this year I have a newer set of CNC-345 heads so I just went in the garage and checked them (not on the motor). None of the holes leaked into the water passages. Glad to see it wasn't a "feature" of the newer Indy heads. Seems like only some heads hit water (machined too deep maybe?).

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574636
03/16/14 01:25 PM
03/16/14 01:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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NC
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Quote:

Degreed the cam in at 104.5 (162 .05 after intake high lift + 47 before intake high lift = 209 /2), which is 4 degrees advanced from the cam card but it was set at 108 and said it was also 4 degrees advanced so I guess it’s in at 7.5 degree advanced. Machinist thought the cam was too big so he wanted me to install it at 104 to increase the cylinder pressure and get it to make good power down low. (.680/.680 284/292 @.050 112 lobe sep & 108 Intake center line


I am considering a cam with about the same duration for my new motor. I think the 13 CR should be enough for that cam (more might be better), mine will be 13.4 so it is close to yours. I do have a 3 speed trans so I am going for more hp rather than midrange torque. A good race car has 5500-6000 converter anyway! LOL My old motor had more torque than it needed any way (279/287 at 0.050 cam).

With you installing it at 105ish with 112 LSA that is advanced plenty, I might have only put it at 109. Let us know how the PG does at the launch. Didn't you have a little less CID last year?

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: 440Jim] #1574637
03/16/14 10:35 PM
03/16/14 10:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Quote:

I am considering a cam with about the same duration for my new motor. I think the 13 CR should be enough for that cam (more might be better), mine will be 13.4 so it is close to yours. I do have a 3 speed trans so I am going for more hp rather than midrange torque. A good race car has 5500-6000 converter anyway! LOL My old motor had more torque than it needed any way (279/287 at 0.050 cam).

With you installing it at 105ish with 112 LSA that is advanced plenty, I might have only put it at 109. Let us know how the PG does at the launch. Didn't you have a little less CID last year?




The nice thing about the the belt drive is I can retard it and see if it likes it better than the 104.5 degrees.

Yes last year the motor was a 500 cid so I've increased it 26 cid".

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574638
03/16/14 11:46 PM
03/16/14 11:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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It's all ready for the track!

Here are a few pictures from this weekend. This one is my favorite helper....

8077060-image.jpg (321 downloads)
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574639
03/16/14 11:47 PM
03/16/14 11:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Motor shot 1

8077066-image.jpg (299 downloads)
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574640
03/16/14 11:48 PM
03/16/14 11:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Motor shot 2

8077068-image.jpg (268 downloads)
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574641
03/16/14 11:48 PM
03/16/14 11:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Motor shot 3

8077071-image.jpg (203 downloads)
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574642
03/16/14 11:49 PM
03/16/14 11:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Rear end

8077073-image.jpg (233 downloads)
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574643
03/23/14 10:43 AM
03/23/14 10:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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So what's the one thing I didn't check (clearance wise) and none of my Moparts buddies asked me about?

It blew up on the second pass if that helps anyone... Chunks of piston made their way up to the lifter valley.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574644
03/23/14 11:20 AM
03/23/14 11:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,850
United Socialist States of Ame...
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tboomer Online work
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United Socialist States of Ame...
Looks good! That car is gonna fly!


The end is near.....
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: tboomer] #1574645
03/23/14 11:52 AM
03/23/14 11:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,005
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
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Quote:

Looks good! That car is gonna fly!




I think you missed a post.....


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
87 "Chrysler" Conquest
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: Bad340fish] #1574646
03/23/14 01:16 PM
03/23/14 01:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Joplin, Mo
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rt66jim Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Looks good! That car is gonna fly!




I think you missed a post.....




Well I guess I missed a post too. Did something bad happen?

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574647
03/23/14 01:30 PM
03/23/14 01:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
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Quote:

So what's the one thing I didn't check (clearance wise) and none of my Moparts buddies asked me about?

It blew up on the second pass if that helps anyone... Chunks of piston made their way up to the lifter valley.




Post above tboomers


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
87 "Chrysler" Conquest
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574648
03/23/14 02:20 PM
03/23/14 02:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
S
Sport440 Offline
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Canton, Ohio
Quote:

So what's the one thing I didn't check (clearance wise) and none of my Moparts buddies asked me about?

It blew up on the second pass if that helps anyone... Chunks of piston made their way up to the lifter valley.




I thought you covered it all, at first you didnt check P/V But later you got it. I didnt see a Thrust bearing clearence, and now cant remember if you measured ring gap.

Sorry about the damage.

Edit: I see where you measured both thrust and ring gap. I didnt see a piston to Cyl wall clearence.

Last edited by Sport440; 03/23/14 05:23 PM.
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: Bad340fish] #1574649
03/23/14 10:51 PM
03/23/14 10:51 PM
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Joplin, Mo
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rt66jim Offline
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Joplin, Mo
Quote:

Quote:

So what's the one thing I didn't check (clearance wise) and none of my Moparts buddies asked me about?

It blew up on the second pass if that helps anyone... Chunks of piston made their way up to the lifter valley.




Post above tboomers




Ok I'm old and blind I guess. But I haven't found another post. Point me in the right direction with a link.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: rt66jim] #1574650
03/23/14 11:52 PM
03/23/14 11:52 PM
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Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
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Read wades last post in this thread...right above tboomers. It blew up


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
87 "Chrysler" Conquest
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: Bad340fish] #1574651
03/24/14 12:37 AM
03/24/14 12:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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The only thing I didn't check, I've never checked and didn't know I needed to, was the crank counter weight to piston clearance.

This was a K1 Hemi 4.15 stroke crank and in the first motor I used it in we cut the counter weights down besause it needed so much weight taken off of it to balance it.

And then when I hurt the motor last fall I had it offset ground to 4.25 and Chevy journals. So with the 7.100 rod and shorter pistons there must have not been enough clearance. It would turn over by hand just fine but at speed it must have been making clearance on the pin boss on the piston as they stretched and the piston let go.

That's my theory right now and until I tear the motor down and hopefully verify what happened.

Pistons are off the shelf diamond 4.25 flat top but with 4.440 bore.

So depending on what the damage is I may put Frankenstein aside and focus on the KB motor but I'm hoping it just got a piston or two and maybe a rod. But I think it also bent a valve on each side.... To be continued.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574652
03/24/14 03:09 AM
03/24/14 03:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,586
Topeka Kansas
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ksj Offline
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That bites.Course you know that.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: ksj] #1574653
03/24/14 04:16 AM
03/24/14 04:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,664
North Sweden
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RT540 Offline
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I guess your pistons skirts goes lower then the bottom of the cylinders bores. Here´s a pict of my CP custom pistons with a 4.25 crank. Besides the notch for the BME rods, they are close to the bottom of the cylinders.


And Wade, sorry for your troubles.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574654
03/24/14 09:48 AM
03/24/14 09:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,850
United Socialist States of Ame...
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tboomer Online work
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United Socialist States of Ame...
Sorry Wade...guess I missed that..


The end is near.....
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: tboomer] #1574655
03/25/14 01:44 AM
03/25/14 01:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,984
Anoka County, MN
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Leigh Offline
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Anoka County, MN
Sorry to hear of the carnage. Hope it's not a total loss. Take care.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574656
03/25/14 02:06 AM
03/25/14 02:06 AM
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Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Wade, did you get a full run in on the first pass, or did you just do a breakin run?


I have respect for your honesty on the good or bad that happend to your car.

Im about to do the same first run testing. Good or bad I will disclose the outcome too. Some would hide it or disappear out of ego issues. Glad to see your not one of them.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: Sport440] #1574657
03/25/14 09:42 AM
03/25/14 09:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Quote:

Wade, did you get a full run in on the first pass, or did you just do a breakin run?


I have respect for your honesty on the good or bad that happend to your car.

Im about to do the same first run testing. Good or bad I will disclose the outcome too. Some would hide it or disappear out of ego issues. Glad to see your not one of them.




Thanks I've learned a lot from the MOPARTS community so I want to share my buitd with other so they can learn and those that have more experience can comment and ask questions so I can continue to learn as well. (I wished someone would have asked me about the counter weight to piston clearance. Lol)

I did make a full pass, it blew up on the 2nd pass.

It picked up the front wheels and while they were in the air it spun so it wasn't a good pass. If your not one of the first few down the track at test-n-tune the street tire cars destroy the track. It had a 1.38 60' 6.17 1/8 and 9.66 at 138mph which was 2 tenths and 4 mph slower than I expected but it spun off the line so it wasn't a good pass. On the 2nd pass it went 6.15 in the 1/8 and blew up at the 800 to 1,000 foot.

Hope to get it out this weekend and I'll share pictures and more iron on what I learned.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574658
03/25/14 10:31 AM
03/25/14 10:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Thats a MAJOR bummer Wade... I do have a set of 4.440
pistons with chevy pins... they were for my B-1
that are for sale... they were for a 4.15 crank

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1574659
03/25/14 02:51 PM
03/25/14 02:51 PM
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Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Quote:

Thats a MAJOR bummer Wade... I do have a set of 4.440
pistons with chevy pins... they were for my B-1
that are for sale... they were for a 4.15 crank





Will the B-1 pistons work on standard heads, like the 440-1s? I think I've heard they will but not sure.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574660
03/25/14 10:57 PM
03/25/14 10:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,916
NC
440Jim Offline
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Quote:

The only thing I didn't check, I've never checked and didn't know I needed to, was the crank counter weight to piston clearance.

This was a K1 Hemi 4.15 stroke crank and in the first motor I used it in we cut the counter weights down besause it needed so much weight taken off of it to balance it.

And then when I hurt the motor last fall I had it offset ground to 4.25 and Chevy journals. So with the 7.100 rod and shorter pistons there must have not been enough clearance. It would turn over by hand just fine


Oh No !
I hate to hear that.

This is what I came up with (after the fact):

CWmax = Counter Weight max dia
Pthick= Piston thickness below the pin
Pin = Piston pin dia
Rod = Rod Length

CWmax = 2(Rod - Stroke/2 - Pin/2 - Pthick - Clearance)
For example:

CWmax = 2(7.100 - 4.25/2 - 0.990/2 - 0.240 - 0.060)
CWmax = 2(7.100 - 2.125 - 0.495 - 0.240 - 0.060 )
CWmax = 8.36" dia

So the piston pin support area should not have been a problem if the crank counter weights are less than that. On a low deck with 6.535" rods it gets close. Typically counterweights are 7.5" plus or minus dia (mine are cut to 7.14" dia). But maybe the skirt?

8088765-Piston_pin.jpg (186 downloads)
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: 440Jim] #1574661
03/26/14 12:58 AM
03/26/14 12:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Canton, Ohio
With a 7.1 rod, I dont see that interference happening either. His autopsy should reveal it, chopped pistons or spun bearings or whatever.


Wade, I look forward to your autopsy on your motor. I thought you did a great job on that motor! Your results scare me because I feel Ive got a frankenstine motor going together.

Last edited by Sport440; 03/26/14 02:04 AM.
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: Sport440] #1574662
03/26/14 01:28 PM
03/26/14 01:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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Triple Threat Offline
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Really Sorry to see this Wade. Hopefully its salvagable.


-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: Triple Threat] #1574663
03/26/14 01:37 PM
03/26/14 01:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,318
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Quote:

Really Sorry to see this Wade. Hopefully its salvagable.





CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574664
03/26/14 01:42 PM
03/26/14 01:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Quote:

Quote:

Thats a MAJOR bummer Wade... I do have a set of 4.440
pistons with chevy pins... they were for my B-1
that are for sale... they were for a 4.15 crank





Will the B-1 pistons work on standard heads, like the 440-1s? I think I've heard they will but not sure.




I dont know Wade.... I know how you feel about it
breaking with so few runs/time... I had my W-9 blow
on its first pass.. it made it to about the 1/8 mile
then all hell broke loose...it cost me $3500 to put
it back together... a lifter tie bar broke and a
valve hung open... that cost me 1 head, 4 pistons
and a rod and a set of lifters.. that engine was done
with the help of a local performance shop on the first
build up... oh yeah.. had to sleeve 1 bore... but
since then its been a great engine with almost no
issues at all.... best of luck to you on getting it
back together

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574665
03/26/14 03:16 PM
03/26/14 03:16 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,488
northern,Ohio,USA
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Clanton Offline
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The piston at BDC may have tilted and locked on the up stroke.That is my WAG cuz I don,t know nothin.


GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: Clanton] #1574666
03/26/14 06:24 PM
03/26/14 06:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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I appreciate the condolences....

If it isn't that the counterweight hit the bottom of a piston maybe I put a cap on backwards or maybe I put a rod on backwards but the piston was in the hole correctly.

Or maybe the crank grinder messed up one rod journal on the offset grinding.

Hope it not damaged to the point I can't determine the cause.

When it blew and I pulled over and got off the track it was smoking like a freight train so I got out of car pretty fast, still had my helmet and neck brace on. And started to pull out the fire extinguisher. All the smoke was coming out the passenger side exhaust/muffler. It smelt really hot. Luckily there wasn't any fire. I pull the hood up to make sure before we hooked up to pull off the track.

Didn't have any oil on the track or in the diaper so hoping the oil pan is ok

Didn't have any water on the ground and I couldn't see any water in the oil when looking at the dip stick.

I did cut open the filter after starting it up on gas and then switching it over onto alcohol and there wast anything in the filter, well maybe 3 or 4 aluminum shavings from when I was filing in the head for push rod clearance.

I bet the filter will have plenty in it this time.

So the block should be ok, it's survived a dropped valve, broken rod and windowed and now this failure. I'm guessing it will need a sleeve.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574667
03/27/14 11:41 AM
03/27/14 11:41 AM
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Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Dad went over to the shop yesterday to get ready to pull the motor. He pulled the radiator, mufflers, driveshaft, alternator, etc.

He also pulled the spark plugs because he was starting to un-bolt the torque converter and he couldn't get the motor to turn over much so he thought he may need to pull the plugs to let out the compression but here's a picture of what he found. He said it would turn about 60 degrees and then lock up so may have to pull the motor with the converter still bolted on.

I was hoping I would get lucky like it did this fall when I blew the motor and not have any damage to the heads except for a bent valve it 2 but this is looking like I may have some head repairing to do.

This plug is out of #8 and I thought the hurt cylinder was 6 because that is the one with the very loose intake pushrod. There was also a loose pushrod on #3 intake. So I figured those would have bent valves.

8090307-image.jpg (248 downloads)
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574668
03/27/14 11:50 AM
03/27/14 11:50 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Very sorry to hear....That sucks. What is the clearance supposed to be at for a min?


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: Dragula] #1574669
03/27/14 11:59 AM
03/27/14 11:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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.060 is what I've been told. for Counterweight to Piston or for most any general clearance items.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574670
03/27/14 12:12 PM
03/27/14 12:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 655
Huntsville, AL
A
Airwoofer Offline
mopar
Airwoofer  Offline
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Huntsville, AL
Yet we run as low as 0.040 quench.

That sucks.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574671
03/27/14 12:12 PM
03/27/14 12:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
roadhazard Offline
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Sorry to see this Wade
Hope you can find the source of the issue.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: roadhazard] #1574672
03/27/14 12:40 PM
03/27/14 12:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,629
Oakland, MI
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dizuster Offline
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Oakland, MI
Possible that you had the wrong piston in the wrong hole?

I built a motor like that once... Accidentally swapped piston number 4 and 6. When I checked piston to valve on #1, it had plenty. When I built the motor and switched the piston, the exahust notch (eye brow) didn't have enough clearance for the intake valve.

Idled fine... failed under power after a little while from contact at higher RPM.

I wonder if you did the same thing? Dropped the valve, and killed the piston?

Good luck... sorry to hear about your troubles. Hope it isn't too expensive or time consuming to get it back together.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: dizuster] #1574673
03/27/14 09:57 PM
03/27/14 09:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,003
Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB Offline
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Bummer Wade, sorry to read this. I hope it is reasonably salvageable.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574674
03/29/14 06:53 AM
03/29/14 06:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,664
North Sweden
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RT540 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Thats a MAJOR bummer Wade... I do have a set of 4.440
pistons with chevy pins... they were for my B-1
that are for sale... they were for a 4.15 crank





Will the B-1 pistons work on standard heads, like the 440-1s? I think I've heard they will but not sure.




I made a template of my new CP 4.51" valve reliefs for B1 heads and placed the template on my old Wiseco 4.50 pistons.
As I see it, the notches(clearance) will be shallower, would you all agree to my thinking?

On the old Wiseco

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: RT540] #1574675
03/29/14 06:55 AM
03/29/14 06:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,664
North Sweden
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RT540 Offline
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Here´s a Ford piston, setup for two different heads, look at the inner notch, and that it is deeper because the valve is closer to center of piston.
http://image.mustangandfords.com/f/14605...lve_reliefs.jpg

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: RT540] #1574676
03/29/14 12:09 PM
03/29/14 12:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 877
ky
68roadrunner Offline
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ky
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Thats a MAJOR bummer Wade... I do have a set of 4.440
pistons with chevy pins... they were for my B-1
that are for sale... they were for a 4.15 crank





Will the B-1 pistons work on standard heads, like the 440-1s? I think I've heard they will but not sure.






would like to know this myself, i know the -1 heads have a 15* angle on the valves

sorry about your problem wade, i feel your pain, been there done that

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: 68roadrunner] #1574677
03/29/14 12:17 PM
03/29/14 12:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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Posts: 20,116
PA.
I know I had to get my Wisco pistons that were made for 440-1 heads re-cut for my B1 heads. Different valve angles. It cost me just under 100 dollars but that was years ago.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: 68roadrunner] #1574678
03/29/14 12:20 PM
03/29/14 12:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 456
corpus christi tex
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Cheatham Offline
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on my 572 in beginning i was planning to start off with a indy ez-1 head but knew i may end up with a b1 so the pistons were notched for b1s which i was told would work with indys

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: Cheatham] #1574679
03/29/14 12:35 PM
03/29/14 12:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

on my 572 in beginning i was planning to start off with a indy ez-1 head but knew i may end up with a b1 so the pistons were notched for b1s which i was told would work with indys




Based on what has been shown here and if he isnt
running a max lift the B-1 pistons should work..
mine were made to the B1M/C head so the intake valve
is moved but even then it looks like the smaller valve
would clear.. and if it isnt a max lift even the angle
change wouldnt matter.. but it would have wasted space

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1574680
03/29/14 12:43 PM
03/29/14 12:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Wade here is a pic of the pistons

8093069-DSC00152.JPG (227 downloads)
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1574681
03/29/14 12:48 PM
03/29/14 12:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

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Romeo MI
Here is the specs on them... see if they would work
for you... I'll let them go pretty cheap since I sold
off everything else for that engine.... these are CP
pistons with the gas ports

8093075-DSC00154.JPG (211 downloads)
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1574682
03/31/14 04:12 PM
03/31/14 04:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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The Autopsy report is in from the “humbled/embarrassed” engine builder (myself)…

All the clearances were fine, it was totally my fault. I put the passenger side bank of pistons in wrong…. Instead of Exhaust, Intake, Intake, Exhaust, Exhaust, Intake, Intake, Exhaust…. I did the complete opposite…

So every intake valve was hitting the piston and probably bent everyone on the initial startup. I made the first pass and it went 7,500 and they all stayed connected but on the 2nd pass, 6.15 at 113mph, and about 800 foot the #8 intake valve head broke off and bounced all around and ended up in #1 intake port. The #8 valve guide ended up holding #6 intake open and the #8 valve seat ended up in #2 intake port so there was a lot of action going on inside the Intake port after the valve head broke a the #8 piston and then traveled back up into the heads. (it went a 9.66 on the first pass with every intake valve on the passenger side bent and not seating, so I bet it would have ran that 9.30 something I was hoping for…)

We heard a noise on startup but thought it was the rocker because we has some push rod clearance issues that I worked on after initial startup and it got much quieter, sort of sounded like the rockers were tapping the valve covers slightly but no, it was the valves hitting the pistons… Basically the noise had almost gone completely away because it was making its own clearance… I attributed that to the work I did to make clearance for the push rods…

From the picture below you can see that #8 head chamber is pretty badly damaged, but repairable. Every piston has shrapnel damage, every head chamber has shrapnel damage, every intake is bent on the passenger side head and I’m not sure if the valves are ok on the driver side yet but with the valve head lodged into #1, I’m guessing I may have bent a few valves on that head as well. Both heads will need some repair work done.

#8 piston has a hole in it and it’s split down the side (at first glance I thought it was the cylinder that was split) but I think the Block, Crank and Rods survived. I’ll need to check and possibly replace #8 rod since it was abused, I’ll check the cranks just to be sure, the #8 cylinder will need to be either sleeved or I’ll just need to bore all the cylinders to 4.50” bore, which is what I will probably do since I need new pistons and I’d rather not sleeve the block.

There wasn’t any damage to the oil pan or windage tray, there wasn’t any metal on the oil pan magnetic plug (most of the shrapnel was aluminum and stainless steel. There was some aluminum in the oil pump rotor so I’ll probably replace them if I can’t clean them up enough to be sure they are fine.

I was hoping I got lucky like I did when the motor blew up last fall and there wasn’t any damage to the heads except 1 bent valve. All I need to complete the KB short block is a set of rods and the mega block will need to be bored, new pistons and probably a rod. Both of those were option and I thought I might be able to swing so I could get another motor going for this season but with the heads damaged I’m going to need to repair or replace them and that will put me out for this year. (Frankenstein was going to be my back up motor once I got the KB motor done but that plan didn’t work out did it…lol

I am fortunate to have my wife ’68 Barracuda that runs 10 and is a blast to drive. So as long as I keep on her good side she will let me double up with her and still get to race some this year.

Moral of the story and what I learned from this experience….

I’ve probably built close 30 race motors and never had a failure, so I was over confident with the basic stuff like getting the pistons in the hole correctly and was more focused on the more technical/advanced items. So my over confidence and rushing to make the 1st points race of the year allowed me to learn a lesson the hard way. Yes the machinist was late getting the machine work done and getting the heads to me but that is no excuse for me rushing to build the motor and getting it into the car in 1 weekend.

I should have taken my time and made sure I did everything correctly, even the stuff I’ve done many of times and shouldn’t have to think twice about, it never pays to rush when you’re building a motor.

8095779-photo1.JPG (264 downloads)
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574683
03/31/14 04:12 PM
03/31/14 04:12 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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head picture

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Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574684
03/31/14 04:13 PM
03/31/14 04:13 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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#8 intake port

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Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574685
03/31/14 04:14 PM
03/31/14 04:14 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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#1 intake port with the #8 valve head lodged...

8095784-photo3.JPG (279 downloads)
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574686
03/31/14 04:29 PM
03/31/14 04:29 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
MAJOR BUMMER.... sorry about that... I'm surprised
that it even turned over... I guess the valves cleared

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1574687
03/31/14 04:47 PM
03/31/14 04:47 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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It turned over by hand with no problems... I wished it hadn't..lol

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574688
03/31/14 04:57 PM
03/31/14 04:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Romeo MI
Quote:

It turned over by hand with no problems... I wished it hadn't..lol




I guess you didnt clay the pistons to check the P to V
clearance.... we all learn... but that one COST

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1574689
03/31/14 06:19 PM
03/31/14 06:19 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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I did on the Driver side #1, didn't check P to V on Passenger but head builder was installing new valves and made sure that the valves were at the same position or higher in the heads so we shouldn't need to check other P to V. We knew where the pistons were for both sides (.010 in the hole) (of course that is only true if I has put the pistons in correctly...lol)

We didn't clay it, we used a light checking valve spring so we could check clearance at several places so I would know if i had room to advance or retard the cam with the external timing belt system later.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574690
03/31/14 06:42 PM
03/31/14 06:42 PM
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Posts: 10,115
A Red State
SNK-EYZ Offline
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A Red State
That sucks.


Kayse can't keep up at all now. lol
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: SNK-EYZ] #1574691
03/31/14 07:11 PM
03/31/14 07:11 PM
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Carson City, Nevada
Biginchmopar Offline
pro stock
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Carson City, Nevada
Expensive leason but you will never do that again.

Those heads are going to cost a bit to repair. (OUCH)


Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574692
04/01/14 12:50 PM
04/01/14 12:50 PM
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New Lenox IL
cudadon Offline
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Wade I am sorry to hear of this.

Years ago I was in a hurry to put the engine in the car. Everything was checked.
I put the flexplate on the crank & torqued it.
Put engine in car, did testing. It kept slowing, then it died on the turn off. It wouldn't crank with starter.
Got towed back to pits. Looked things over, then it started. So after it cooled it would crank.

Long story short the ARP flexplate to crank bolts were TOO LONG! The bolts jacked all the end play clearance out of the crank.
You would think you would hear or feel the bolts rubbing on the block.
ARP said oops I guess chevy bolts won't work for that engine.
The 1 thing I didn't look at caused that engine to be rebuilt.

It wasn't the engine builders fault it was the intaller's (me)
ARP made the correct bolts after that.
Don

8097003-493ondyno.JPG (247 downloads)
Last edited by cudadon; 04/01/14 12:55 PM.
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574693
05/05/14 01:57 PM
05/05/14 01:57 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Would anyone happen to have 1 Indy 440-1 head they'd like to sell?

I'm starting to look at getting this one repaired but if I could find someone that had just one head that may be a better route, let me know if you do please.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574694
05/05/14 02:46 PM
05/05/14 02:46 PM
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Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
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PA.
Quote:

Would anyone happen to have 1 Indy 440-1 head they'd like to sell?

I'm starting to look at getting this one repaired but if I could find someone that had just one head that may be a better route, let me know if you do please.





Wade put a FREE wanted ad on Racingjunk. I'm sure someone has one laying around.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574695
05/07/14 12:33 PM
05/07/14 12:33 PM
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New Lenox IL
cudadon Offline
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Wade how's the KB block going? Did you get it?
Good luck with your builds.
Don

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: cudadon] #1574696
05/07/14 02:29 PM
05/07/14 02:29 PM
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Salt Lake City
C
camastomcat Offline
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Salt Lake City
I'm curious about the block deal too Wade. Also, 19 years ago, I did the same thing. Ruined a couple of pistons but had 10, fixed the head and was back after it. It happened in the waterbox though so not as bad. Like others said, racingjunk, you will find a head if you can't fix that one.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: camastomcat] #1574697
05/07/14 06:10 PM
05/07/14 06:10 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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I just happened to call Ken today and he said the block is basically done and cam bearing installed but they are waiting on sleeves. The supplier that they get the sleeves from is backed up or something.

He said they buy "blanks" and then machine the ID, OD, flange, o-ring groove etc to the customer specific block.

He said they typically use a 4.700" sleeve and are good to 4.530" bore, if I understood him correctly.

I'm starting out with 4.360" bore but they are using the same 5.700" sleeve so I can go to 4.500" later on.

He said he had another source he was going to get a few sleeves until the main supplier catches up so I'm guessing it will be another 2 weeks..

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574698
05/07/14 06:23 PM
05/07/14 06:23 PM
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pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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PA.
It will be well worth the wait.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: pittsburghracer] #1574699
05/07/14 09:10 PM
05/07/14 09:10 PM
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Posts: 452
Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
racerhog Offline
mopar
racerhog  Offline
mopar

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Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
K.B. Dose also do them only as needed...


Bob(Cowboy)Hogan
Monrovia So-Cal
“Frankenstein” is almost alive! Let’s try this again.. [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574700
10/03/14 04:30 PM
10/03/14 04:30 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Let’s try this again.

Block - Bored the block to 4.50” from 4.44” (.060” bigger, it started out life as 4.320, then 4.380 (dropped valve), then 4.440” (broke rod at 7,200) and finally 4.5” (dropped valve, broke piston because I’m an idiot, I’m sure glad I started out at 4.320, or I would have scrapped the block or had a bunch of sleeves in it by now) They did sonic check it and the thinnest spot on the thrust side was .155 but I think that will be just find since I'm not running 16:1 compression and not running any power adders.

Pistons - Ordered new Diamond pistons, Shelf 4.25” 7.100 rod pistons and changed the bore to 4.5” and had them cut the valve reliefs .030 deeper

Rods - Replace the 1 Eagle rod, no apparent damage but since that piston had a hole in it and was busted all the heck, I figured it had earned early retirement (80 passes).

Rod Bolts - Replaced all the rod bolts (ARP2000), they only had 80 passes on them but they had been torqued at least 6 times so I figured it wasn’t a bad idea.

Crank - checked out ok, just polished it up.

Rotating Assembly - Send the rotating assembly to be balanced with the new pistons but the machinist called and said there wasn’t but 1 gram of difference so we didn’t need to do anything. I did switch from Clevite to King rod bearings and he said there was some difference there so I guess Diamond does some lightening to the 4.5” pistons too.

Heads – I had a local guy repair the head that had the chamber and port damage. And then I had my machinist put new valves in it.
The other head just had aluminum shrapnel all over it and I assumed that we would be able to salvage a few if not all the valves but he said most all of them were tweaked from the shrapnel…. So the brand new Manley Sever Duty vales had a whole 1.5 passes on them and then allowed to retire. I think we only saved 1 exhaust valve from both heads…
They had to take .025 off the surface to clean them up so now the chambers are 66cc (more compression).
Since the PAC 1325-16 springs, TI retainers and locks only had 2 passes on them we were able to re-use all of them. They are set up at 1.910, 215lbs closed and 750lbs open at .700”.

Lifters – I couldn’t see or feel anything wrong with them but a local engine builder told me he would send them in to Isky just to be sure and I’m glad they did, they found 2 that needed repairs. These are the roller lifters with the bushing, only cost $1,250 but they should be the last set I ever buy…

Compression will be bumped up to 13.8. (4.5” bore, 4.25 stroke, 66cc head chamber, 4.590 head gasket bore, .051 head gasket thickness, 4.5cc valve reliefs, .010 piston to deck)

The increased bore size will make the motor 540” cid.

I spoke to Lunati about the cam and they recommended that I put it in straight up and not advance it 4 degrees like I had it installed, it has more duration that I like but he said the cubic inches will each up a lot of that duration. Lift with 1.6 rockers .678/.678 duration at .050 284/292 Lobe separation 112 Intake center line 108 (build in 4 degrees advanced)

Since I blew my motor up the Friday before our 1st points race in March, my wife let me race her ’68 Barracuda in No-E and she raced it in Sportsman. I don’t feel anywhere near as confident in her car as I do mine but somehow I managed to win the No-E Points Championship.

We don’t have any more bracket races, but we have the NHRA Div 4 Team Finals in Dallas, another Team final race up near Joplin, MO and then our local Mopar race in Tulsa Nov 8 so I’m hoping to get the motor built and in the car for the Mopar race (just not enough time to get it ready for the others). So I’ll go into the winter with a completely fresh car, motor and tranny will have less than 20 passes on them.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! Let’s try this again.. [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574701
10/03/14 06:31 PM
10/03/14 06:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
master
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Nebraska
Takes balls to show everyone a humbling mistake like this. This kinda thing happens often but it gets hush hushed.


Mopar to the bone!!!
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