|
MSD troubleshooting
#1572543
02/01/14 10:49 PM
02/01/14 10:49 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,827
Houston, Tx
hemi68charger
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,827
Houston, Tx
|
Hey gang....
Got my MSD 6AL for the ole' Daytona. I've wired it up and everything seems to be fine according to the schematics from MSD. The problem the distributor isn't triggering a signal. I have for now, a single point distributor that works perfectly fine and the motor idles and rev's up to rpm without any problems. I am using it as a trigger for now. Will eventually get a Prestolite converted to a Chrylser Electronic system and use that. But, for now, I wanted to get it in the car and running.
Based on the troubleshooting procedures with the kit, I have done:
1. Ignition on., ground the wire wire from the MSD box utilized for point triggering and snap, nice spark...... Sweet...
2. but when I hook it up to the distributor's lead, nothing....... Soo, I'm confused now. The distributor in it's "Natural state" with everything hooked back OEM works just fine...... puzzled.....
PS. I am using the recommended MSD coil when I'm trying to fire up the car with the MSD unit.
For now, I am not utilizing the gray tach wire...... I just wanted to get the MSD system up and going.....
Cheers,
Troy
TroyHouston Mopar Connection Club'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi) '69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana '70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: SSAAHemiFan]
#1572545
02/02/14 12:44 AM
02/02/14 12:44 AM
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 62
montreal, quebec,canada
7e5dartsport
member
|
member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 62
montreal, quebec,canada
|
only logic i can think of is that the distributor body is not grounded. take a test light, hook it up to the battery POSITIVE terminal and touch the distributor body with the other end of the test light, it should light up. repeat that WHILE CRANCKING. if it does light up, unhook the distributor single wire from the msd box and with the test light still on battery positive, touch the dist. wire while crancking, it should alternatively come on and off, confirming its operating condition.
also make sure you are using the msd WHITE wire when using points.
good luck.
fully legal sounds the same as full illegal...
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: 7e5dartsport]
#1572546
02/02/14 01:15 AM
02/02/14 01:15 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,827
Houston, Tx
hemi68charger
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,827
Houston, Tx
|
Quote:
...also make sure you are using the msd WHITE wire when using points.
good luck.
Yeap, for sure the white wire is being used...... When I ground the MSD white wire with the ignition in the run position ( 12v source for the unit ), it archs really nice..
I know it is something rather simple......... Shutting down for now and will tinker some more tomorrow before the SuperBowl.....
TroyHouston Mopar Connection Club'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi) '69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana '70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: 7e5dartsport]
#1572547
02/02/14 07:29 PM
02/02/14 07:29 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
master
|
master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
|
Quote:
only logic i can think of is that the distributor body is not grounded. take a test light, hook it up to the battery POSITIVE terminal and touch the distributor body with the other end of the test light, it should light up. repeat that WHILE CRANCKING. if it does light up, unhook the distributor single wire from the msd box and with the test light still on battery positive, touch the dist. wire while crancking, it should alternatively come on and off, confirming its operating condition.
also make sure you are using the msd WHITE wire when using points.
good luck.
hmmm, i don't think its a case of the dizzy not grounding cause he says it will run when not using the MSD. it may be an issue with the points gap. are you using the correct ballast resistor for that coil and points dizzy? that could be the problem. pop in the stock coil and see what happens  edit - are you using a dual point dizzy?
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1572548
02/02/14 08:24 PM
02/02/14 08:24 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
GTX MATT
master
|
master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
|
Are you sure that the points are opening?
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1572549
02/02/14 08:41 PM
02/02/14 08:41 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
master
|
master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
|
Quote:
Are you sure that the points are opening?
says it runs when he takes the MSD out. also, sorry i didn't see where you said single point dizzy  . i think you have a resistance issue.
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1572550
02/03/14 12:15 AM
02/03/14 12:15 AM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,558
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
|
Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,558
Downtown Roebuck Ont
|
Quote:
Quote:
only logic i can think of is that the distributor body is not grounded. take a test light, hook it up to the battery POSITIVE terminal and touch the distributor body with the other end of the test light, it should light up. repeat that WHILE CRANCKING. if it does light up, unhook the distributor single wire from the msd box and with the test light still on battery positive, touch the dist. wire while crancking, it should alternatively come on and off, confirming its operating condition.
also make sure you are using the msd WHITE wire when using points.
good luck.
hmmm, i don't think its a case of the dizzy not grounding cause he says it will run when not using the MSD. it may be an issue with the points gap. are you using the correct ballast resistor for that coil and points dizzy? that could be the problem. pop in the stock coil and see what happens edit - are you using a dual point dizzy?
MSD does not use a ballast resistor even when using stock coil. If you are using it, it needs to be bypassed.
Kevin
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: Twostick]
#1572551
02/03/14 01:03 PM
02/03/14 01:03 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,827
Houston, Tx
hemi68charger
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,827
Houston, Tx
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
only logic i can think of is that the distributor body is not grounded. take a test light, hook it up to the battery POSITIVE terminal and touch the distributor body with the other end of the test light, it should light up. repeat that WHILE CRANCKING. if it does light up, unhook the distributor single wire from the msd box and with the test light still on battery positive, touch the dist. wire while crancking, it should alternatively come on and off, confirming its operating condition.
also make sure you are using the msd WHITE wire when using points.
good luck.
hmmm, i don't think its a case of the dizzy not grounding cause he says it will run when not using the MSD. it may be an issue with the points gap. are you using the correct ballast resistor for that coil and points dizzy? that could be the problem. pop in the stock coil and see what happens edit - are you using a dual point dizzy?
MSD does not use a ballast resistor even when using stock coil. If you are using it, it needs to be bypassed.
Kevin
Nope, when I have the MSD circuit hooked up, I don't have the ballast in the circuit. I am using the 12v feed to the ballast as the 12v feed to the red 12v feed wire ( small guage red wire )... I am using the MSD coil I got with my purchase per their recommendation. Then, I put everything back OEM and the car runs great; idles fine and throttle response is good. The distributor is a freshly remanufactured unit, so the points and such are brand new.
Thanks to all..... I'll call MSD later on today......
TroyHouston Mopar Connection Club'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi) '69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana '70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: hemi68charger]
#1572552
02/03/14 02:11 PM
02/03/14 02:11 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,827
Houston, Tx
hemi68charger
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,827
Houston, Tx
|
Well,
Just got off the phone with MSD tech support. As some of you have eluded to, the condensor is supposed to be disconnected. Wish the instructions would have mentioned that. It isn't very intuitive to remove it if you have never done it before. Suggested to him to add it to the instructions... Unless I missed it somewhere, I don't recall reading anything to that...
So, when I get home, quess what I'm doing?
Thanks again to all that replied............ I'll yell back my results for future reference.
TroyHouston Mopar Connection Club'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi) '69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana '70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: hemi68charger]
#1572553
02/03/14 02:40 PM
02/03/14 02:40 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
master
|
master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
|
Quote:
Well,
Just got off the phone with MSD tech support. As some of you have eluded to, the condensor is supposed to be disconnected. Wish the instructions would have mentioned that. It isn't very intuitive to remove it if you have never done it before. Suggested to him to add it to the instructions... Unless I missed it somewhere, I don't recall reading anything to that...
So, when I get home, quess what I'm doing?
Thanks again to all that replied............ I'll yell back my results for future reference.
Grrrr... i had totally forgotten about that little [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean], it's been that long! i should have known about the ballast cause it's bypassed when starting.
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1572554
02/03/14 10:35 PM
02/03/14 10:35 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,827
Houston, Tx
hemi68charger
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,827
Houston, Tx
|
Well no-go...
I took the condenser out...... It's freakin' crazy. I put a test light with the ground on the distributor lead and put the point on the positive post and crank, the test light flashes on and off as it should. I put the white wire on the the distributor lead and I get arching from the coil wire to metal.. I do notice the first rotation or two, the arch isn't there then it comes on. I put the cap back on, take coil wire back on and take out plug 1 and hook up the spark plug wire and crank.... I get spark at the plug.. !!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr,
but, when I put everything back, nada.. I moved the distributor advance ( thinking the timing is not the same with the MSD ), nothing.... Maybe I just need to go to an Chrysler Electronic distributor... Lordy...... This shouldn't be so complicated !!!
TroyHouston Mopar Connection Club'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi) '69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana '70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: hemi68charger]
#1572555
02/04/14 12:13 PM
02/04/14 12:13 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
master
|
master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
|
Quote:
Well no-go...
I took the condenser out...... It's freakin' crazy. I put a test light with the ground on the distributor lead and put the point on the positive post and crank, the test light flashes on and off as it should. I put the white wire on the the distributor lead and I get arching from the coil wire to metal.. I do notice the first rotation or two, the arch isn't there then it comes on. I put the cap back on, take coil wire back on and take out plug 1 and hook up the spark plug wire and crank.... I get spark at the plug.. !!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr,
but, when I put everything back, nada.. I moved the distributor advance ( thinking the timing is not the same with the MSD ), nothing.... Maybe I just need to go to an Chrysler Electronic distributor... Lordy...... This shouldn't be so complicated !!!
this make no sense?? all the points are doing is switching on and off like a light switch. dwell is not a factor with MSD so if it was correct it should still be along with timing. what is the condition of the points? with a MSD the amount of voltage to the 'switch' is greatly reduced. if there is a film built up on them this could cause a problem as well as pitting and corrosion. these are just some thoughts. this is an original style dizzy with just 1 wire that would have been connected to the coil negative side? another thought is to double check the setting on the MSD box. make sure it is set for 8 cylinder. i know they are supposed to be but who knows?
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1572556
02/04/14 01:41 PM
02/04/14 01:41 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
GTX MATT
master
|
master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
|
Troy, do you have the white wire and the wire from the points connected directly, or do you have them both connected to the negative post on the coil? They should be connected directly and not on the coil. The same goes for the smaller gauge power wire for the MSD box, it should not be connected at the coil with the original coil power supply, they should be spliced directly.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1572557
02/04/14 03:12 PM
02/04/14 03:12 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,827
Houston, Tx
hemi68charger
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,827
Houston, Tx
|
Quote:
Troy, do you have the white wire and the wire from the points connected directly, or do you have them both connected to the negative post on the coil? They should be connected directly and not on the coil. The same goes for the smaller gauge power wire for the MSD box, it should not be connected at the coil with the original coil power supply, they should be spliced directly.
No..
1. I have the white wire connected directly with the ditributor lead via an alligator clip and the small 12v iginition red feed for the MSD clipped to the 12v input to the ballast resistor ( the ballast resistor is not hooked up, I'm just using the plug as the 12v feed. I have it wire exactly like the MSD instructions state, just not permanently....... I also took out the condenser paying particular attention in not messing up the points gap.
TroyHouston Mopar Connection Club'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi) '69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana '70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: hemi68charger]
#1572558
02/04/14 03:55 PM
02/04/14 03:55 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
GTX MATT
master
|
master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,159
CT
|
The violet wire for magnetic pickup use isn't accidentally grounding out anywhere, is it?
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1572559
02/04/14 04:10 PM
02/04/14 04:10 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
master
|
master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
|
Quote:
The violet wire for magnetic pickup use isn't accidentally grounding out anywhere, is it?
good thought! another thing to try is hooking the white wire up to the dizzy wire and tapping first the wire to the points (looking for spark)and then shorting the points and look for spark. you did say when you tap the white to ground you got spark right?
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1572560
02/04/14 04:46 PM
02/04/14 04:46 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,827
Houston, Tx
hemi68charger
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,827
Houston, Tx
|
Quote:
good thought! another thing to try is hooking the white wire up to the dizzy wire and tapping first the wire to the points (looking for spark)and then shorting the points and look for spark. you did say when you tap the white to ground you got spark right?
That's a big 10-4
TroyHouston Mopar Connection Club'69 Charger Daytona 440 - auto - 4.10 Dana (now with 426 hemi) '69 Charger 500 440 - 4speed - 3.54 Dana '70 Road Runner 383 - 4speed - a/c (now with 440)
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: hemi68charger]
#1572561
02/04/14 04:56 PM
02/04/14 04:56 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,351
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,351
Marion, South Carolina [><]
|
A friend of mine can't login for some reason and asked me to post this for you...
The problem may be you have the hot ignition wire for the msd hooked up to the hot wire on the ballast resistor. On the cars running points the hot wire goes dead when you turn the key to start and the second wire on the ballast resistor becomes hot 12 volts bypassing the resister to points for starting and the other wire goes dead. When you let go of the key the second wire (brown on mine) goes dead and the (blue on mine ) goes back to hot. The brown and coil wire are crimped together on the dead side of the resister.
I just made a jumper across my resister so it doesn't matter which wire is hot.
This was only on points cars and the other wire gets it power right off the starter.
Maybe you can pass this along. He's been trying for several days.
Thanks, Mike
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
|
|
|
Re: MSD troubleshooting
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#1572562
02/04/14 05:07 PM
02/04/14 05:07 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
master
|
master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
|
Quote:
A friend of mine can't login for some reason and asked me to post this for you...
The problem may be you have the hot ignition wire for the msd hooked up to the hot wire on the ballast resistor. On the cars running points the hot wire goes dead when you turn the key to start and the second wire on the ballast resistor becomes hot 12 volts bypassing the resister to points for starting and the other wire goes dead. When you let go of the key the second wire (brown on mine) goes dead and the (blue on mine ) goes back to hot. The brown and coil wire are crimped together on the dead side of the resister.
I just made a jumper across my resister so it doesn't matter which wire is hot.
This was only on points cars and the other wire gets it power right off the starter.
Maybe you can pass this along. He's been trying for several days.
Thanks, Mike
i think (mistake i know) that he has a 2 wire ballast not the 4 wire and has the MSD getting power directly from the wire.
|
|
|
|
|
