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Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? #1566945
01/22/14 11:46 AM
01/22/14 11:46 AM
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North Carolina
cjskotni Offline OP
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Guys,

I know there have been numerous posts about this topic before but I am having trouble locating them and I wanted input based on my setup. My car is a 1973 Charger with pretty much stock (restored) suspension and steering. Only 'upgrades' have been thicker stabilizer bar and polygraphite bushings all around. I replaced the power steering box a few years back with an expensive rebuilt one and it still pretty much sucks. The steering is loose and you can still wiggle the steering shaft 5-10* before it has resistance from the box. This is the box itself as you can do this directly from the input shaft. The steering coupler has been totally rebuilt and there is no slop in the shaft/coupler/ragjoint itself.

I have seen the posts about the Firm Feel upgrade you can do which looks appealing. I have also seen the Borgeson setup but it appears it would require cutting the steering shaft which I am not keen on. My car would be classified as a 'restomod' but I want it heavier on the 'resto' and less on the 'mod'. Therefore, I am leaning towards going the Firm Feel route. I see they make three stages I-III.

My car is a street car first and foremost. I would be happy to get rid of the slop and maybe make the steering more like a modern car. hell, I'd be pumped if it had steering like my 4banger Honduh Accord daily driver! I am guessing maybe stage II would be what I want here? I am guessing stage III would be one step from manual steering which I don't want.

Can anybody here recommend which route I should take here? Stage II or III? Anybody else to consider? Also, what is the turnaround time to have one sent out? I may just swallow the core charge and buy one outright as I don't want to disable my car for very long to pull the existing one and ship it off. Any 1st hand experiences you can share?


Thanks as always!

Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: cjskotni] #1566946
01/22/14 01:16 PM
01/22/14 01:16 PM
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bethlehem pa
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mikemee1331 Offline
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Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: cjskotni] #1566947
01/22/14 02:30 PM
01/22/14 02:30 PM
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Posts: 2,914
Calgary, Alberta Canada
a12rag Offline
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I went with the Firm Feel box - III in my stock 70 Sport Satellite. It feels great, much more like a rack and pinion style steering - tight and responsive.

You could always find a "core" at your local wrecking yard, and send that in . . .

Good Luck . . . Dick and company @ Firm Feel are always there to answer any questions you would have. Perhaps give them a call . . .

Cheers

Mark

Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: mikemee1331] #1566948
01/22/14 03:12 PM
01/22/14 03:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni Offline OP
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Quote:

have you tried the washer trick?
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post6874251




I have heard about that but that won't fix the slop only make the steering a bit firmer. The looseness in the steering is what makes driving the car not as pleasant to me...

Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: a12rag] #1566949
01/22/14 03:14 PM
01/22/14 03:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni Offline OP
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Quote:

I went with the Firm Feel box - III in my stock 70 Sport Satellite. It feels great, much more like a rack and pinion style steering - tight and responsive.

You could always find a "core" at your local wrecking yard, and send that in . . .

Good Luck . . . Dick and company @ Firm Feel are always there to answer any questions you would have. Perhaps give them a call . . .

Cheers

Mark




How is the stage III in parking lots? I don't mind some effort but I don't want to feel like I have manual steering either. How does it compare to a modern sedan (not performance) as far as firmness?

Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: cjskotni] #1566950
01/22/14 03:20 PM
01/22/14 03:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
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Iowa
burdar Offline
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I assume you've tried tightening up the adjuster on the top of the box?

Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: cjskotni] #1566951
01/22/14 03:20 PM
01/22/14 03:20 PM
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Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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Firm Feel stage III, go stage II, you'll wish you went stage III, I have a Firm Feel stage III on my 70 Charger, awesome steering response, "steer" clear of Steer and Gear's boxes, the last box I had grenaded after 3 yrs of use, and the other Steer and Gear boxes I used on assorted restos were less than stellar in comparison to the Firm Feel box

Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: burdar] #1566952
01/22/14 03:27 PM
01/22/14 03:27 PM
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Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni Offline OP
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Quote:

I assume you've tried tightening up the adjuster on the top of the box?




I did try that but they must have welded that adjuster nut on. I had breaker bar on the nut that holds the adjuster and I could not loosen it for fear of rounding off the nut or breaking something.

I have also heard the that is a band aid that will cause the box to wear faster...not that I care for the mileage this car gets but still that nut is stuck tight. If I am going through the trouble to pull the box to have to do this on a bench, I will probably get the FirmFeel (or other) box to be done with this.

Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: cjskotni] #1566953
01/22/14 06:08 PM
01/22/14 06:08 PM
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Lakeland FL
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floridian Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

I assume you've tried tightening up the adjuster on the top of the box?




I did try that but they must have welded that adjuster nut on. I had breaker bar on the nut that holds the adjuster and I could not loosen it for fear of rounding off the nut or breaking something.

I have also heard the that is a band aid that will cause the box to wear faster...not that I care for the mileage this car gets but still that nut is stuck tight. If I am going through the trouble to pull the box to have to do this on a bench, I will probably get the FirmFeel (or other) box to be done with this.




You heard wrong.. It is not a band-aid, and if ( like any other part of your car) it is not adjusted correctly you will experience what you are describing.. Try it, made a huge difference on my 67..

Last edited by floridian; 01/22/14 06:09 PM.
Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: cjskotni] #1566954
01/22/14 08:20 PM
01/22/14 08:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 311
Mass. USA#1
hemi70 Offline
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I put a Firm Feel stage III box in my '70 B-body about 5 years ago and I LOVE IT!!!!
As said before it has the response and feel of a rack and pinion set up but it is NEVER hard to turn.

Gary.

Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: hemi70] #1566955
01/22/14 09:45 PM
01/22/14 09:45 PM
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Lake Orion, MI
goldduster318 Offline
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Borgenson...More expensive, but much better. Better ratio, better feel, smaller and lighter box..



It's just awesome. Call Bergman Auto Craft


'70 Duster 470hp 340/T56 Magnum/8 3/4 3.23 Sure-Grip
Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: hemi70] #1566956
01/22/14 09:53 PM
01/22/14 09:53 PM
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Va Usa
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beecrazy Offline
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In about a month I should be able to give you real feedback on borgeson box.I purchase the box and all hardware from moparts member Peter Bergman. Peter modified a stock mopar coupler that when used with a PS column makes the whole change a bolt in deal, no cutting. The Oct 2013 mopar action magazine article titled steer clear show this new hardware.

Kevin

Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: beecrazy] #1566957
01/22/14 10:33 PM
01/22/14 10:33 PM
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IN
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ahy Offline
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I'm running the FF stage II and love it. I think stage III would be fine also. Parking maneuvers shouldn't be an issue with either.

Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: cjskotni] #1566958
01/23/14 11:23 AM
01/23/14 11:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 765
Franklin CT
syleng1 Offline
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I've read the entire thread as I too am battling with a loose steering box. I mean the 66 is original and after 48 years I'd be sloppy as well with a new suspension and alignment. I mean it is fun driving straight and the car goes left or right is fun... but only I can drive the Barracuda. If any one else tries they freak out and pull over. It is great theft preventer but I'd rather try an ignition cut off before a loose steering box any day.

I have a few questions only either lightly covered or not at all.
1) how is parking maneuvers from those with stage II or III?
2) How the heck do you send a steering gear? UPS or private carrier; and how do you box it? Like a plywood box you build or just a heavy duty cardboard box? I am in CT and they are in WA. That's a lot of distance.

Anymore input on Stage II or stage III would be awesome!
Thanks,
Joe

Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: goldduster318] #1566959
01/23/14 11:30 AM
01/23/14 11:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni Offline OP
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Quote:

Borgenson...More expensive, but much better. Better ratio, better feel, smaller and lighter box..




I do like the idea of having a dimensionally smaller box as I had to dent my headers to clear the factory box. I am sure that is a nice upgrade!

I am not sure I want to spend quite that much on the steering and lose some of that old-school factory look. The quick ratio might be more fun but I would just be happy with getting the slop out and maybe firming up the steering some.

I think I am leaning towards a Firm Feel for my situation. I just want to know whether I should go stage II or III. Can anybody here compare these stages to a modern day car? I'm not looking for a race car, just to feel more 'modern' and responsive than the floating yacht feeling I have now....

Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: syleng1] #1566960
01/23/14 11:35 AM
01/23/14 11:35 AM
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Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni Offline OP
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Quote:

How the heck do you send a steering gear? UPS or private carrier; and how do you box it? Like a plywood box you build or just a heavy duty cardboard box? I am in CT and they are in WA. That's a lot of distance.




I have shipped plenty of car parts. I would use a very sturdy cardboard box and maybe line the inside with additional cardboard to stiffen it up some. The other key here is to use the foam or some type of packing material that WON'T allow the gear to bounce around inside the box at all. If the gear bounces around inside the box, it will start to destroy the box. Other than that, it's not like it's a fragile part.

For something that heavy, I would use UPS ground over USPS as they get more pricey for larger, heavier items.

Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: cjskotni] #1566961
01/23/14 12:41 PM
01/23/14 12:41 PM
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Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

How the heck do you send a steering gear? UPS or private carrier; and how do you box it? Like a plywood box you build or just a heavy duty cardboard box? I am in CT and they are in WA. That's a lot of distance.




I have shipped plenty of car parts. I would use a very sturdy cardboard box and maybe line the inside with additional cardboard to stiffen it up some. The other key here is to use the foam or some type of packing material that WON'T allow the gear to bounce around inside the box at all. If the gear bounces around inside the box, it will start to destroy the box. Other than that, it's not like it's a fragile part.

For something that heavy, I would use UPS ground over USPS as they get more pricey for larger, heavier items.







Go to Home Depot, Lowes, etc, etc, buy a 5 gal bucket and and a snap on lid to ship it in, add some packing, problem solved, even has a handle, and if it leaks, no problem, it's contained, your carrier will appreciate it

Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: cjskotni] #1566962
01/23/14 12:42 PM
01/23/14 12:42 PM
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Florida
BDW Offline
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How big is it; what about the USPS large flat rate box?
I was able to ship a Dana 60 power-lok, with some disassembly.

Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: BDW] #1566963
01/23/14 02:28 PM
01/23/14 02:28 PM
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Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
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Cardboard is fine if you package it properly.Last Sept I sent a power steering box from PA to Prospect South AU,41 lb,started with USPS Priority Int,then transfered FedEx Global Express,made it to AU in the same condition as when it left PA.,don't ask what it cost !!

Re: Power Steering Box Upgrade Options -- Firm Feel ? [Re: 62maxwgn] #1566964
01/23/14 02:41 PM
01/23/14 02:41 PM
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Calgary, Alberta Canada
a12rag Offline
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II versus III for ease of steering ??? Not too sure, as I have only gone with the stage III unit. However, it is not too bad when parking or slow, still some assist, but not the factory one finger . . . honestly, it is good and on the road, wayyy better than factory unit.

Probably best to talk to Firm Feel, as they can advise better for each person's taste . . .

In my case, 70 B body with small block, a/c, and it looks factory, works great . . .

Good luck

Cheers

Mark

- shipping ?? I would agree about the bucket from HD or Lowes. However, FF ships the unit wrapped in a plastic bag, and then inside cardboard box . . .

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