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Rings gap - 150 shot #1566627 01/21/14 10:50 PM 01/21/14 10:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 637 Sao Paulo, Brazil dart_73_br OP mopar
dart_73_br OP mopar Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 637 Sao Paulo, Brazil	Hello guys, Need a help.. 318 will run on ethanol + 150 shot.. Some ring makers says 0.0055" x bore size for 1st and 2nd rings.... But saw in a nitrous forum that should use a bigger gap in 2nd ring.. Cold you please give me your opinion...? Thanks,

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: dart_73_br] #1566628 01/21/14 11:05 PM 01/21/14 11:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 10,384 Upstate NY Bigcube I Live Here
Bigcube I Live Here Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 10,384 Upstate NY	With a 4.440" bore this is how much I changed them for a healthy shot. Top ring gap (N/A) .020 Top setting .032 2nd ring gap (N/A) .016 2nd setting .036 Jim

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: dart_73_br] #1566629 01/22/14 02:16 AM 01/22/14 02:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,123 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,123 Bend,OR USA	A lot wider is way better than a tiny bit to narrow, especially on NOS Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: dart_73_br] #1566630 01/22/14 12:42 PM 01/22/14 12:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az Crizila master
Crizila master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az	Quote: Hello guys, Need a help.. 318 will run on ethanol + 150 shot.. Some ring makers says 0.0055" x bore size for 1st and 2nd rings.... But saw in a nitrous forum that should use a bigger gap in 2nd ring.. Cold you please give me your opinion...? Thanks, IMO, that aint gonna be enough. Follow the piston mfg's recommendations - and add another 3 - 4 thou to be safe. Fastest 300

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: Crizila] #1566631 01/22/14 12:47 PM 01/22/14 12:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,257 acworth / N. georgia - south e... cheapstreetdustr master
cheapstreetdustr master Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,257 acworth / N. georgia - south e...	it also depends on piston material. forged aluminum has a different causation than Hypereutectic pistons. i would look into what your piston manufacturer recommends as well.. 365" Iron J heads,,3480lbs best 1.39 60ft on SS springs.10.54,124 mph ...6.67 1/8th et.average 60fts 1.46 w/ small cam &.063 no2 pill tagged & insured [image][/image]

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: cheapstreetdustr] #1566632 01/22/14 01:09 PM 01/22/14 01:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 637 Sao Paulo, Brazil dart_73_br OP mopar
dart_73_br OP mopar Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 637 Sao Paulo, Brazil	It�s KB KB399 hypereutetic one... I�ve mailed their tech support but no answers so far... using moly rings with the hyper pistons...

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: dart_73_br] #1566633 01/22/14 01:34 PM 01/22/14 01:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,257 acworth / N. georgia - south e... cheapstreetdustr master
cheapstreetdustr master Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,257 acworth / N. georgia - south e...	i think the hypers end up with top ring gap at 25 i dont have my notes handy on that build... KB will tell you the correct amount for sure. 365" Iron J heads,,3480lbs best 1.39 60ft on SS springs.10.54,124 mph ...6.67 1/8th et.average 60fts 1.46 w/ small cam &.063 no2 pill tagged & insured [image][/image]

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: cheapstreetdustr] #1566634 01/22/14 01:38 PM 01/22/14 01:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 637 Sao Paulo, Brazil dart_73_br OP mopar
dart_73_br OP mopar Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 637 Sao Paulo, Brazil	Found in their hyper catalog... street nitrous: TOP ring factor = 0.008 > 3.94 x 0.008 = 0,0315" SECOND ring = 0.004 x bore > 0,0157" I think that�s it...

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: dart_73_br] #1566635 01/22/14 03:28 PM 01/22/14 03:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,123 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,123 Bend,OR USA	Quote: Found in their hyper catalog... street nitrous: TOP ring factor = 0.008 > 3.94 x 0.008 = 0,0315" SECOND ring = 0.004 x bore > 0,0157" I think that�s it... No way in the world would I run the second ring that tight with your motor, maybe .031 or larger Most of the piston ring makers and the piston makers use to recommend numbers like that years ago, not now Almost all of the better companys recommend a bigger gap on the second ring than the top ring now The reason being is ring flutter at the upper RPM in a race motor Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: dart_73_br] #1566636 01/22/14 07:20 PM 01/22/14 07:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,414 Toronto M mshred master
mshred master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,414 Toronto	Quote: Found in their hyper catalog... street nitrous: TOP ring factor = 0.008 > 3.94 x 0.008 = 0,0315" SECOND ring = 0.004 x bore > 0,0157" I think that�s it... That number for the second ring seems too tight to me, even on motor. I followed my ring manufacturers instructions when gapping mine for the nitrous, and it recommended a larger ring gap up top then for the second ring...Then I posted about my gaps on another board, and was told by a bunch that the second ring gap should be bigger then the first to allow the trapped gases to escape. I would say gap them larger then you actually want to spray, because you are going to want more pill size after a while, and the larger gaps really shouldn't hurt anything...but seeing your running hypers, I wouldn't push them too much...I'd be more comfortable spraying cast then hyper pistons, but thats just me.

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: mshred] #1566637 01/22/14 08:16 PM 01/22/14 08:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,123 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,123 Bend,OR USA	Quote: Quote: Found in their hyper catalog... street nitrous: TOP ring factor = 0.008 > 3.94 x 0.008 = 0,0315" SECOND ring = 0.004 x bore > 0,0157" I think that�s it... That number for the second ring seems too tight to me, even on motor. I followed my ring manufacturers instructions when gapping mine for the nitrous, and it recommended a larger ring gap up top then for the second ring...Then I posted about my gaps on another board, and was told by a bunch that the second ring gap should be bigger then the first to allow the trapped gases to escape. I would say gap them larger then you actually want to spray, because you are going to want more pill size after a while, and the larger gaps really shouldn't hurt anything...but seeing your running hypers, I wouldn't push them too much...I'd be more comfortable spraying cast then hyper pistons, but thats just me. Hypertitics(SP?) are cast pistons, they are not forged I'll bet you meant forged pistons for all out racing on NOS or any other power adder, yes? Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: Cab_Burge] #1566638 01/22/14 10:43 PM 01/22/14 10:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,414 Toronto M mshred master
mshred master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,414 Toronto	Quote: Quote: Quote: Found in their hyper catalog... street nitrous: TOP ring factor = 0.008 > 3.94 x 0.008 = 0,0315" SECOND ring = 0.004 x bore > 0,0157" I think that�s it... That number for the second ring seems too tight to me, even on motor. I followed my ring manufacturers instructions when gapping mine for the nitrous, and it recommended a larger ring gap up top then for the second ring...Then I posted about my gaps on another board, and was told by a bunch that the second ring gap should be bigger then the first to allow the trapped gases to escape. I would say gap them larger then you actually want to spray, because you are going to want more pill size after a while, and the larger gaps really shouldn't hurt anything...but seeing your running hypers, I wouldn't push them too much...I'd be more comfortable spraying cast then hyper pistons, but thats just me. Hypertitics(SP?) are cast pistons, they are not forged I'll bet you meant forged pistons for all out racing on NOS or any other power adder, yes? No, I meant what I said cab lol...As far as I know, cast and hypers are made from slightly different processes...I know both are touchy, but have always been warned that hypers are even more so and when they let go, it's a little nastier (although at that point, pain is pain lol). Of course, I could be all wrong...I have only ever sprayed a forged motor- it was a safety net for an idiot like me lol

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: Cab_Burge] #1566639 01/22/14 10:45 PM 01/22/14 10:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa 1967dartgt master
1967dartgt master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,978 Hilltown Pa	Hyper and moly rings not best choices for nitrous. Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads STR Chassis fabraction

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: 1967dartgt] #1566640 01/22/14 11:02 PM 01/22/14 11:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA Leon441 master
Leon441 master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA	150 is not that much... But, most people who intend to run 150 end up with more. NO WAY IN HADEES I would run that gap on a second ring. But, that said I do not follow the flock with the larger ring gap on the second ring. The idea is whatever gets below the top ring should have extra room to get by the second. Ring flutter comes from pressure between the rings. Keep it up and eventually you put so much pressure between them with a little heat in the valve pocket and you lift the land. The top ring will always see more heat than the second. Which equals more ring expansion in the top ring. I set my gaps the same but, ran fairly large gaps. Leon Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: Leon441] #1566641 01/22/14 11:15 PM 01/22/14 11:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 10,384 Upstate NY Bigcube I Live Here
Bigcube I Live Here Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 10,384 Upstate NY	The one thing to add is typically top ring and second ring are not the same material. 2nd ring is usually cast with a "good" top ring, be it Moly, or whatever.

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: Bigcube] #1566642 01/22/14 11:20 PM 01/22/14 11:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 637 Sao Paulo, Brazil dart_73_br OP mopar
dart_73_br OP mopar Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 637 Sao Paulo, Brazil	Guys, this juice stuff might be addictive but I know this hyper are crap for large nitrous shot so thats why I'm limiting it to 150. And thats what I have now.. So... Will put it together and have some fun.... 1973 Brasilian Dart E100, boosted 390"

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: dart_73_br] #1566643 01/22/14 11:40 PM 01/22/14 11:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,414 Toronto M mshred master
mshred master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,414 Toronto	Quote: Guys, this juice stuff might be addictive but I know this hyper are crap for large nitrous shot so thats why I'm limiting it to 150. And thats what I have now.. So... Will put it together and have some fun.... Correction: not MIGHT be addictive but WILL be addictive. Take it from me, especially if you have the pistons out and have not balanced them yet...Sell your pistons and rings, get a forged piston and non moly rings and put them in with a gap that is sufficient for say a 200-250 hit....When the addiction kicks in, you'll be glad you did it Just my ...good luck and have fun with it regardless !

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: Cab_Burge] #1566644 01/22/14 11:45 PM 01/22/14 11:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az Crizila master
Crizila master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az	Quote: Quote: Found in their hyper catalog... street nitrous: TOP ring factor = 0.008 > 3.94 x 0.008 = 0,0315" SECOND ring = 0.004 x bore > 0,0157" I think that�s it... No way in the world would I run the second ring that tight with your motor, maybe .031 or larger Most of the piston ring makers and the piston makers use to recommend numbers like that years ago, not now Almost all of the better companys recommend a bigger gap on the second ring than the top ring now The reason being is ring flutter at the upper RPM in a race motor Both those #s are a little tight, but hypers have an expansion chamber between the top and second rings to address ring flutter. I have run those style pistons with .034 on the top ring and .017 on the second ring with no problems, A 150 shot will work with those pistons if you go easy on the timing and run it cold as you can - water injection, etc. Fastest 300

Re: Rings gap - 150 shot [Re: Crizila] #1566645 01/22/14 11:55 PM 01/22/14 11:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,267 North, Alabama D-50 pro stock
D-50 pro stock Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,267 North, Alabama	I used to run the KB hyper pistons in a 360 back in the 90's. I gapped the rings for nitrous like the instructions said . I never ran less than 150 shot and ran 175 some times. I had the kb 107's and J-heads. I always ran about 28* timing and 93 octane fuel.Never had any problems... 8008239-CIMG0081.JPG (79 downloads) 1.33 60 ft,6.21 at 110.59 in the 1/8, pump gas small block,2950lbs,drag radials,mufflers and driven to track ...

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