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EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? #1565982
01/20/14 04:39 AM
01/20/14 04:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 543
Indiana, Just Off I-70
BradD Offline OP
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BradD  Offline OP
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Indiana, Just Off I-70
I'd like to hear opinions from EFI users on which ECU you would recommend for a 4000lb. STREET car with 3.23 gears and an 833 4spd and A/C. It's a 383ci, Hyd. roller(230@50), Doug's headders, Edelbrock ProFlo direct port into a Torker 383, 54lb.@ 46psi injectors, NOVI 1500 w/approx. 10 lbs. boost. It has the Edelbrock 35090 kit which includes a distributor made by mallory for edelbrock. It is a hall effect square wave signal which we cut the shaft down to fit the low deck 383. Edelbrock says we have to use this dizzy to have the correct signal for their engineered ECU. If the car wasn't boosted, the edel handheld would have tuned the car. However once we changed to 2bar map and wide band, we could no longer tune with their handheld. We purchased the NGK AFX Powerdex wideband 02 sensor w/digital readout which Kyle at Edelbrock recommended. Loaded additional programming from Edel into the laptop, sent the ECU back to fix a "bug" and paid the $400 to upgrade for on the fly tuning. I hand wrote on an 8.5x11 piece of paper everything about the car. 64yo owner that needs to be able to pull away from the stoplight with ease, everything in and on the motor, part #s for the sensors and more! After hours of trying to tune on the car and talking to Kyle and Clay on the phone they said "just take it to the dyno and let them tune it". Well after loading the car in the trailer and driving 1:15:00 one way to the dyno, I unload the car, he loads the Edel software into his laptop and spends 2 hours trying to get the car running well enough to strap to the dyno, I leave the car there, drive 2 hours home(bad traffic) and wait to hear from him. Late the next day he says he talked to edelbrock and they had loaded a race tune into the ECU because they thought it was a HEMI race car! WTH?? He asked what thier program was based on and they said it was engineered by them. He never got the car onto the dyno. So I was told to come get the car as the dyno guy can't waste any more time on it. I don't own the car, it is my customer.
So after the car sits in the trailer for 2 months because I can't afford to waste my time on it, the owner expects me to figure something out. We don't trust the poorly designed distributor as we have already had issues with it, as have others with this kit. You can read about it on the Edelbrock EFI forum.
I want to use as much of the components alraedy on the car. Hopefully just change the ECU, a little wiring, and maybe the throttle body.
So who makes an ECU that is user friendly with boost and ignition control. What makes the controller you recommend better than the others? Price isn't a (big)concern, function is! This is not a low budget novice build.

Brad


Check out the Dorn's 69 Barracuda "Switchblade" in the Nov.2010 MCG
Check out the Dorn's refurbished 36 Ford in the Feb.2011 Street Rodder
Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: BradD] #1565983
01/20/14 05:17 AM
01/20/14 05:17 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
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ntstlgl1970 Offline
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Sac, CA, USA
I like the megasquirt myself, MS3. It will work with everything you already have. diyautotune.com has everything you need and the forums are very helpful. I'm going to put a turbo on my next motor build and it already has everything I need.

Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: BradD] #1565984
01/20/14 05:31 AM
01/20/14 05:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
Duner Offline
top fuel
Duner  Offline
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Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
I'm completely happy with the MegaSquirt3X setup I'm running on mine. The built in features like fan control, launch control, rev-limiter and self-tuning for the most part is huge for me. The user's forum is invaluable when it comes to figuring stuff out - even if the documentation is well done - it's really nice to be able to bounce ideas off of other people who are running the same thing. I data log every pass to see where and what I want to change - as well as let it auto tune itself. It will tune itself using the wideband you already have installed.

Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: Duner] #1565985
01/20/14 11:20 AM
01/20/14 11:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 928
NC
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SLOW67 Offline
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NC
After looking at all the options I decided on megasquirt. Out of all the options it seemed to be the most cost effective so that's what I bought. I haven't gathered all my pieces yet but I have emailed the guys at megasquirt directly to ask some questions and they responed quickly and were very helpful I've already wrote a base tune that should work well. Took me a few days to figure it out but I love the tunablilty.

Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: SLOW67] #1565986
01/20/14 11:33 AM
01/20/14 11:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,005
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
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Bad340fish  Offline
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Tulsa OK
I am glad to hear all the megasquirt stuff. That is the road I am going down as well. Havn't ordered the ECU yet but I built my stim boards this last weekend.


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
87 "Chrysler" Conquest
Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: Bad340fish] #1565987
01/20/14 12:12 PM
01/20/14 12:12 PM
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Posts: 3,629
Oakland, MI
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dizuster Offline
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Oakland, MI
I'm all for using mega squirt, I think it's a great system and plan on using it myself when I do my turbo hemi deal.

That being said... what features is the edebrock EFI system lacking that's causing your issue?

It sounds like you just need to take the car to a good tuner and let them work on it.

No one (Megasquirt or otherwise) will be able to provide you with a good tune right off the bat no matter how much information you provide. Each cam/intake/compression/CID combo will be different. Someone needs to run the car, watch it live, and adjust the parameters accordingly to get it dialed in.

Don't give up on it just because one tuner couldn't make it work. Where do you live? Maybe you can find someone in your area that can get the job done right?

As for the distributor... if you really think it's an issue you can use one of these instead. (Same issue though, it's only for an RB so would need to be cut down.)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/acc-77801/overview/make/dodge

Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: BradD] #1565988
01/20/14 12:51 PM
01/20/14 12:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 833
MN
hemidup Offline
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MN
64 yr old with a Procharged street machine that just wants to have fun and drive it across country if needed, correct? Been there, done that. If you don't want to get married to the car with tuning issue's and problems in the future look into the FAST XFI 2.0.


Jerry Williams.
Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: hemidup] #1565989
01/20/14 01:18 PM
01/20/14 01:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
Duner Offline
top fuel
Duner  Offline
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Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
What kind of tuning issues would MegaSquirt 3X have vs FAST XFI 2.0?

Not wanting to be argumentative at all - I've never seen or used the FAST stuff, but I also haven't had to tweak on my MS tunes other than deciding to implement more features that I didn't realize I'd want from the beginning. Do other people have to keep tweaking their tunes if they are simply driving them?

Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: hemidup] #1565990
01/20/14 01:18 PM
01/20/14 01:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 964
Odessa, Fl
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blowndart Offline
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Odessa, Fl
Quote:

64 yr old with a Procharged street machine that just wants to have fun and drive it across country if needed, correct? Been there, done that. If you don't want to get married to the car with tuning issue's and problems in the future look into the FAST XFI 2.0.



another vote for FAST. That's what I run and I've run it on a turbo build and I found it easy to tune because of the built in wideband O2. I've use and Megasquirt 2 also and that was a good unit too, but I liked the FAST system better.

Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: dizuster] #1565991
01/20/14 01:30 PM
01/20/14 01:30 PM
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Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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TRENDZ Offline
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Milwaukee WI
Quote:

I'm all for using mega squirt, I think it's a great system and plan on using it myself when I do my turbo hemi deal.

That being said... what features is the edebrock EFI system lacking that's causing your issue?

It sounds like you just need to take the car to a good tuner and let them work on it.

No one (Megasquirt or otherwise) will be able to provide you with a good tune right off the bat no matter how much information you provide. Each cam/intake/compression/CID combo will be different. Someone needs to run the car, watch it live, and adjust the parameters accordingly to get it dialed in.

Don't give up on it just because one tuner couldn't make it work. Where do you live? Maybe you can find someone in your area that can get the job done right?

As for the distributor... if you really think it's an issue you can use one of these instead. (Same issue though, it's only for an RB so would need to be cut down.)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/acc-77801/overview/make/dodge



Totally agree with this. I've dealt with alot of different systems. They all have a different way of doing things. Tuner guys have preferences. If you have a resource tuner, get the system he prefers.
No system will be tuned trouble free in 2hrs. Locally, the shops around me with "dyno tuning" generally only get the car to idle, then get max power numbers. Alot of these cars end up migrating to me for driveability issues. The edelbrock system you have is a real nice unit when "unlocked" I've only worked with one of these. It's actually an EFI technologies system that's been re-named. It has every capability to do what you want it to do, and much more- as long as it's unlocked. I will admit, it has a very complicated methodology, but once you're over that, it is a very capable high end system.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: blowndart] #1565992
01/20/14 03:38 PM
01/20/14 03:38 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
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ntstlgl1970 Offline
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ntstlgl1970  Offline
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Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
Quote:

Quote:

64 yr old with a Procharged street machine that just wants to have fun and drive it across country if needed, correct? Been there, done that. If you don't want to get married to the car with tuning issue's and problems in the future look into the FAST XFI 2.0.



another vote for FAST. That's what I run and I've run it on a turbo build and I found it easy to tune because of the built in wideband O2. I've use and Megasquirt 2 also and that was a good unit too, but I liked the FAST system better.




I agree with this - I think of all the systems out there, FAST probably has the best support network as far as tuners are concerned. I just like doing my own stuff.

Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: ntstlgl1970] #1565993
01/20/14 07:55 PM
01/20/14 07:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305
5th and plum
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redmist Offline
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redmist  Offline
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5th and plum
My vote is MS3X

Build it yourself, and learn all the ins and outs of EFI.

Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: ntstlgl1970] #1565994
01/20/14 08:26 PM
01/20/14 08:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 543
Indiana, Just Off I-70
BradD Offline OP
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BradD  Offline OP
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Indiana, Just Off I-70
The tuner I am using does a lot of GM late models. He travels from Indianapolis to Florida to tune a lot of quick street cars and track cars. He said he prefers FAST, GM, and the newer Holley system. He tuned on the Charger for much more than 2 hours over a 4 day period and couldn't get it to idle well enough to continue tuning. He called Edelbrock 2 or 3 times and got frustrated with them and the system. I don't remember the terminology about the idle, but Edelbrock said it didn't have it in this ECU because they thought that it was a race car.
We are 40 miles east of Indy. I don't want to take the car to some blowhard that thinks he is a good tuner and get raped for a couple grand and then after it doesn't perform well have to find someone else and do it all over again. I've seen and heard about plenty of BSers in the Auto related fields in my 50 years!
The Distributor seems to have a problem sending reliable signals to the ECU. We've already soldered a new pickup onto the board and now it seems to be acting up again. The noid light is showing irratic injector firing(or no injector firing for many revolutions). I believe this distributor may not be able to take much heat. With the blower mounting plate and the A/C compressor mounting plate and the location of the distributor in a "valley" between these plates and the cylinder head, it may be to hot for this distributor and its circuit board to live for long. With this being the only distributor to use with the edelbrock program, we worry about needing a replacement at 9PM on a sunday 500 miles from home. I think a Lean burn distributor from a 400 using one pickup may be the way to go. Especially since I have many new old stock pickups in hand already. The controller will control the advance. I'm hoping that I won't need to add a crank or cam sensor(less clutter and less work).
At the moment I'm leaning toward the Megasquirt 3-Pro, FAST XFI Sportsman, or the FAST XF2.0! I've seen some others on some tuners forums that are not advertised much in the musclecar arenas such as Haltech, AEM, Electromotive, SDS and others.

Brad


Check out the Dorn's 69 Barracuda "Switchblade" in the Nov.2010 MCG
Check out the Dorn's refurbished 36 Ford in the Feb.2011 Street Rodder
Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: hemidup] #1565995
01/20/14 08:40 PM
01/20/14 08:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 543
Indiana, Just Off I-70
BradD Offline OP
mopar
BradD  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 543
Indiana, Just Off I-70
Quote:

64 yr old with a Procharged street machine that just wants to have fun and drive it across country if needed, correct? Been there, done that. If you don't want to get married to the car with tuning issue's and problems in the future look into the FAST XFI 2.0.



So you are saying you have used the Megasquirt in this situation as well as the FAST and prefer the FAST? Same car, changed systems? Or two different boost builds?

Brad


Check out the Dorn's 69 Barracuda "Switchblade" in the Nov.2010 MCG
Check out the Dorn's refurbished 36 Ford in the Feb.2011 Street Rodder
Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: dizuster] #1565996
01/20/14 08:55 PM
01/20/14 08:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 543
Indiana, Just Off I-70
BradD Offline OP
mopar
BradD  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 543
Indiana, Just Off I-70
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/acc-77801/overview/make/dodge

I believe Accel and Mallory are from the same factory!? The Mallory we have looks exactly like the Accel in the ad. After going to Accel's site, It appears to be the same distributor as the Mallory. After going to the Mallory site it is a fact that Mallory is an Accel company.

Brad


Check out the Dorn's 69 Barracuda "Switchblade" in the Nov.2010 MCG
Check out the Dorn's refurbished 36 Ford in the Feb.2011 Street Rodder
Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: BradD] #1565997
01/20/14 09:06 PM
01/20/14 09:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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TRENDZ Offline
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Milwaukee WI
The car I dealt with also had idle issues. There were multiple issues that needed to be solved. At times the iac motor would work, and at other times it would not. This was a complete edelbrock system(intake,inj,dist,harness,ecu...)The first issue I solved was in the bulkhead connector. 1 pin was not locked in, and it would intermittently lose continuity. edelbrock sent me a few replacement pins free of charge. Next issue was the closed throttle tps value. The value the ecu was seeing was to high (ECU thinks the throttle is open) so the iac doesn't come on line. The customer tried closing the throttle plate to overcome this, but it didn't have enough range to get to the pre determined(locked by edelbrock)tps value. Bottom line, we needed to unlock the limits of the ecu to get the system in range to work with its other components. After unlocking the ecu, we got the car to run flawlessly.
Once the ecu is unlocked, you can use ANY style trigger you want to run this system. You can select from drop down menus what style trigger you might have. You are not stuck with the edelbrock dist.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: TRENDZ] #1565998
01/20/14 09:26 PM
01/20/14 09:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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TRENDZ Offline
master
TRENDZ  Offline
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Milwaukee WI
You brought up some other ecus. I, personally am most comfortable with electromotive. They had issues when they were beta testing the original tec3 ecu( I was one of the frustrated guinnie pigs) but they fixed the issues and the system has been reliable. With electromotive you get a superior ignition system, and (to me)a simple software interface. Some users on here would be me, feets, hemi fred.
No questions on this system that I couldn't help with.
If you are looking to dump the edelbrock ecu, pm me.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: TRENDZ] #1565999
01/20/14 11:56 PM
01/20/14 11:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 485
Raleigh, NC
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j.mcconnell Offline
mopar
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Raleigh, NC
I just picked up a microsquirt ecu over the weekend for cheap. Its a little more basic and I will be using it as batch-fuel wasted spark with ls1 coils.

Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: j.mcconnell] #1566000
01/21/14 12:20 PM
01/21/14 12:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 543
Indiana, Just Off I-70
BradD Offline OP
mopar
BradD  Offline OP
mopar

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Indiana, Just Off I-70
After looking over the Electromotive site, I think the TEC3R should be highly considered.

The Beditor has been unlocked with the control.zip file as per Edelbrocks suggestion.

One of the biggest PITA's of the Edelbrock system is the data screen keeps locking up on the laptop. When it does you can't close it with the X in the upper right hand corner, you have to right click from the task bar then close and then reopen and it does it all over again within seconds. It is a common problem with their software and they are aware of it.

Last edited by BradD; 01/21/14 01:44 PM.

Check out the Dorn's 69 Barracuda "Switchblade" in the Nov.2010 MCG
Check out the Dorn's refurbished 36 Ford in the Feb.2011 Street Rodder
Re: EFI ECU for Boosted Street Car??? [Re: Duner] #1566001
01/21/14 12:24 PM
01/21/14 12:24 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Dragula  Offline
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Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Another vote for FAST XFI 2.0


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
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