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CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics #15598
06/24/05 12:54 PM
06/24/05 12:54 PM
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Charlotte, NC
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A few things to note when looking at pictures. This is a '69 440 Barracuda. The major upper crossmember hacking wouldn't be necessary on E and later B bodies. I've heard that there are issues on early B-bodies. I didn't want to cut the transmission to fit under the stock loop so I cut the loop out and replaced it with a boxed loop--no big deal on this since it was 318,auto, 7.25 originally but might be a big deal on 340 car etc so the Keisler set is the way to go if you don't want to hack up a valuable car. Note on driver's side bottom I used upper hole since lower hole is almost off of the bellhousing. Also shifter is made by Pro 5.0 since stock left a lot to be desired. TKO-500 and 600 take a different shifter than the previous Tremecs and TKOs and the only companies that make these shifters is Steeda and Pro5.0. Trans mount is Energy suspension typical GM mount but any old part store mount could be used. Slip yoke is MW but any junkyard 31 spline ford yoke can be used i.e. C6, toploader and some AOD's. I'm using a Ram 6-paddle metallic disc but any GM 26-spline disc can be used just get the same size as you had. On the throwout bearing pics from left to right is Jeep/new dodge throwout bearing, 18-spline hemi trans bearing in the middle and 23-spline throwout bearing on right. My trans was used out of the box with the exception of cutting the front bearing retainer down from 4.850 to 4.80XX. no modification were made to the input shaft. p/n's are Napa N4093 for throwout bearing('97 4.0 Jeep Wrangler application and many later Dodge trucks), pilot bearing is Napa B65174('95 Mustang GT), Mopar 4338876(the one that fits in torque converter hub but has bronze bushing instead of bearing) Use bearing from B65174 and disgard outer housing and use housing from 4338876 and disgard bronze bushing.I spaced the bearing assy. rearward with big .125" thick washer to ensure that it had full contact with bearing surface on input shaft.Trans is P/N 5008(Ford application) Last, try not to look at the nice wiring in the car, among other things. Many attachments coming.

1801179-bot1.JPG (1047 downloads)
Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15599
06/24/05 12:57 PM
06/24/05 12:57 PM
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Charlotte, NC
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another

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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15600
06/24/05 12:58 PM
06/24/05 12:58 PM
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Posts: 26,561
Santa Rosa, NOR*CAL.
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AWESOME! Mods, Can this one be saved to the tech archives?

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: Just Cameron] #15601
06/24/05 01:02 PM
06/24/05 01:02 PM
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15602
06/24/05 01:03 PM
06/24/05 01:03 PM
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15603
06/24/05 01:04 PM
06/24/05 01:04 PM
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Charlotte, NC
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15604
06/24/05 01:05 PM
06/24/05 01:05 PM
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Charlotte, NC
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15605
06/24/05 01:06 PM
06/24/05 01:06 PM
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15606
06/24/05 01:07 PM
06/24/05 01:07 PM
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the big question...how much did it run you?

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15607
06/24/05 01:08 PM
06/24/05 01:08 PM
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Charlotte, NC
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15608
06/24/05 01:09 PM
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Charlotte, NC
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15609
06/24/05 01:10 PM
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15610
06/24/05 01:11 PM
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15611
06/24/05 01:12 PM
06/24/05 01:12 PM
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Charlotte, NC
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15612
06/24/05 01:13 PM
06/24/05 01:13 PM
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15613
06/24/05 01:14 PM
06/24/05 01:14 PM
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: Mass_Mopar] #15614
06/24/05 01:17 PM
06/24/05 01:17 PM
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about $2000, $1600 for trans. another pic attached

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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15615
06/24/05 01:18 PM
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15616
06/24/05 01:19 PM
06/24/05 01:19 PM
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15617
06/24/05 01:20 PM
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15618
06/24/05 01:21 PM
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15619
06/24/05 01:28 PM
06/24/05 01:28 PM
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throwout bearings-notice that 23 spline bearing and Jeep/new Dodge bearing have almost same face surface area so there doesn't seem to be a need for the big surface area on the 18-spline bearing. Also the Jeep bearing has the largest I.D. about .012" larger than 18-spline bearing

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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15620
06/24/05 01:30 PM
06/24/05 01:30 PM
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15621
06/24/05 01:31 PM
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15622
06/24/05 01:32 PM
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15623
06/24/05 01:33 PM
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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15624
06/24/05 01:34 PM
06/24/05 01:34 PM
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Charlotte, NC
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last one FINALLY!!!!

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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15625
06/24/05 02:06 PM
06/24/05 02:06 PM
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Santa Rosa, NOR*CAL.
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Neat-o...Thanks for the Part Numbers! Time to get a Tremec Spotter's Guide, give both the Mustangs and Supras a thorough checking and go find something at pick-n-pull on half-off weekend that'll hold up behind the Duster.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: Just Cameron] #15626
06/24/05 02:29 PM
06/24/05 02:29 PM
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Ansonia, CT
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Well you showed us yours, I'll show you mine.

Quote:

The major upper crossmember hacking wouldn't be necessary on E and later B bodies.




My E required the crossmember be pretty much removed as the shifter was positioned directly smack dab under it. You could flip the shifter around and move it forward a few inches but that doesn't really help since the "boss" still colided with the arch.

I toyed with the idea of making a permanent arch to replace the piece I cut out but it seemed easier and more straight forward to go the bolt in x-member route.

So without further adeu for the E-body guys.......

A worms eye view. Check out all that fab work using nothing but a Home Depot mig welder, sawzall and diegrinder with a cutoff wheel.


1801429-100_1450.jpg (409 downloads)

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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: CJK440] #15627
06/24/05 02:30 PM
06/24/05 02:30 PM
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Ansonia, CT
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Up top. The patch on the pass side of the hump was a bit overkill. I think that I could have got away with some more massaging with a big ole hammer.

I plan to make an shifter adapter to reposition the pistol grip closer to the stock location and with any luck I can hide it under the console.



2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15628
06/24/05 03:03 PM
06/24/05 03:03 PM
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Warren, MI
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great job guys. for this type of documentation, get the biggest pics you can.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: CJK440] #15629
06/24/05 04:48 PM
06/24/05 04:48 PM
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Charlotte, NC
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CJK440-Looks good. I shouldn't have commented on swaps into B/E bodies since I only know what I have read. I'd have to say that my weapon of choice is an air chisel with a panel cutter.. I'm too impatient to use anything else.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15630
06/24/05 10:06 PM
06/24/05 10:06 PM
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I commend both you guys for sharing the information that you learned while attempting to find a less expensive way of installing a 5-speed into your Mopar. I wish you both the best of success in your projects and look forward to your photos and comments when your projects have been completed.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 1974Cuda360] #15631
06/25/05 10:02 PM
06/25/05 10:02 PM
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Ansonia, CT
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Oh my lord!!

I made a quick adapter out of 2" x .250" to put the pistol grip back where I remembered it.

Drove the car today witht eh TKO 600 and the Dana and it ran flawlessly. Tranny is quiet and I love that 5th!! Cruising on the highway is so nice, with a 4.10 no less!!

Only gripe is since the shifter limit stops are inside the box, the lever doesn't hit as solid in each gear as it did with the ole Hurst Comp plus. No big thing though.

I'll probably try to hide the shifter adapter under a console I picked up.

I am very happy.


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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: CJK440] #15632
06/25/05 11:38 PM
06/25/05 11:38 PM
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Charlotte, NC
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I hear ya!!! I went from a 3.73 with the 4-spd to 4.56 with the 5-spd. I figured if I'm going to have that much overdrive I'm going to make it worth it. Cruise RPM dropped from 3500 or so down to less than 3000. 60' time dropped real nice and are consistent too thanks to more gear letting me run taller slicks(28' vs 26') without bogging off the line. Low 1.6 are the norm and was pulling 1.53 when the slicks were new. I wish I had as much good things to say about the top end charge.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15633
06/26/05 11:06 AM
06/26/05 11:06 AM
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With the slightly steeper first gear in the Tremec, the car feels like it has 4.44 gears in first, but in 5th I'm cruising at 70mph @ 2200 RPM.


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Post deleted by moparts [Re: CJK440] #15634
06/26/05 11:19 AM
06/26/05 11:19 AM

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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics #15635
06/26/05 11:02 PM
06/26/05 11:02 PM
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Produster-Let me know if you need some better pics or a template of the crossmember to make it easy on yourself. My camera is a $17 walmart special but does OK in good light.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15636
06/29/05 02:47 PM
06/29/05 02:47 PM

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What did you guys use for a bellhousing and shift fork??

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics #15637
06/29/05 03:14 PM
06/29/05 03:14 PM
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Ansonia, CT
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Stock Mopar shift fork and a modified (new bolt pattern drilled) lakewood scattershield.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics #15638
06/29/05 04:54 PM
06/29/05 04:54 PM
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Mine is also a Lakewood scattershield that I bought used years ago. I came out of a Big Block Arrow . Fork is a typical big block short fork. The hole in the bellhousing is still 4.80" so I could bolt an A-833 back in here by changing the disc, throwout bearing, pilot bearing and driveshaft. The only modification to the bellhousing is to redrill it and weld nuts inside for the Tremec pattern. The ONLY work that I had to farm out on my swap was to get the Tremec bearing retainer turned down from 4.850 to 4.806" or so. EVERYTHING else in over-the-counter parts store stuff.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15639
06/29/05 05:35 PM
06/29/05 05:35 PM
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Warren, MI
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did you drill the bellhousing at home? i was thinking that the bolt holes as long as they are relatively close won't really matter. they only hold the trans in place. the centering is done by the center bearing retainer that you had turned down.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: Jerry] #15640
06/29/05 07:27 PM
06/29/05 07:27 PM
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Quote:

did you drill the bellhousing at home? i was thinking that the bolt holes as long as they are relatively close won't really matter. they only hold the trans in place. the centering is done by the center bearing retainer that you had turned down.




Bingo!!! The tranny mounting bolts just hold things together, they don't align the tranny to the engine at all. As long as the bolts clear the holes your all set.

I had a drilling fixture made to drill both the bellhousing and a single hole in an un-drilled tranny mounting ear with a hand drill, no drill press required. No issues bolting up when you transfer the drill fixture from the tranny to the bell.


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Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: CJK440] #15641
06/29/05 08:30 PM
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do you still hav ethe fixture? can you take a pic of it? or are you willing to send it out to have people use it to mod their own bellhousings?

pm me and i can make a second one that can be loaned out for people who are interested in this swap

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: CJK440] #15642
06/29/05 08:41 PM
06/29/05 08:41 PM
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New Mexico
UCUDANT Offline
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Quote:







Looks like you lost a bit of rigidity when you cut the support

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: Jerry] #15643
06/30/05 12:45 AM
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Charlotte, NC
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Me too. Jerry you are totally correct on what you said about the bearing retaining doing the centering. I you draw a horizontal line across the centerline of the A-833 top bolt holes on the scattershield and set up the Tremec so that the top holes are parallel to the A-833 line then that's all you need to do to get the Tremec in the correct position. As long as you drill the holes fairly straight and accurate enough that you can get the bolts in that's about all you need-no drill press really needed.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: UCUDANT] #15644
06/30/05 12:54 AM
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Las Vegas, NV---Back Home!
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Okay, I'm trying to compile a parts list, please check me:

-Trans: TKO 600 (what cars used them, stock?)
-Throwout: Late Dodge/Jeep
-Pilot bearing: Mustang? Dodge? Jeep? It wasn't really clear to me?
-Tranny mount: Gm standard (can you provide a part # for the mount you used?)
-Slip yolk: Ford AOD, C6, others
-Crossmember: Custom, must cut out stock hoop
-Bell housing: Scatter shield (I assume that you could modify a stock one if needed?)
-Pressure plate: ???
-Clutch disc: ???
-Clutch arm: Stock Mopar
-Clutch linkage: Stock Mopar?

Your pictures were very informative, I am just unclear about a few things from your first post.

Thanks!

Nick

Also, did you have to shorten the driveshaft for the application? What U-joint # did you use to go from Ford yolk to Mopar driveline? How did you adapt the speedometer cable to this trans?

Thanks again!

Last edited by Mooosman; 06/30/05 01:01 AM.

1970 Plymouth Valiant
Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: Mooosman] #15645
06/30/05 02:45 AM
06/30/05 02:45 AM
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Charlotte, NC
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446acuda Offline OP
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Trans: no TKO-600's in stock applications. Closest thing might be a Tremec 3550? used in mustang cobras, i think. Not many used TKO-500 or 600 out there yet so new is really your only choice.Mine is Ford application #5008 w/ 0.64 overdrive ratio. A 0.8X ratio is also available just make sure you get the one for a Ford application since the GM version has a much shorter input shaft and since mopar used the longer input shaft than Ford or GM it really help having the added length of the ford shaft.
Throwout bearing:I found this bearing while installing a clutch in a '97 4.0 wrangler. it is Napa # N4093. also used in many later dodge trucks too.
Pilot bearing: 2 parts are required. One is Mopar # 4338876 and the other is Napa # B65174('95 Mustang GT application, i believe) Both parts are 2 piece. Use the bearing (inner piece from B65174 and outer piece from Mopar 4338876) press bearing from B65174 into housing from 4338876. It will be very clear once you have these in hand. used a big washer(1/8" thick) to space these forward to ensure that the bearing has maximum contact with the tremec pilot bearing surface on the input shaft.
BTW the whole pilot bearing should cost much less than $20
trans mount:I threw the box away but is was the same as Energy Suspension # 355-3-1108G (Jegs number since I have a Jeg's catalog handy) I've seen this same mount at AutoZone. I'm no GM expert but I think any parts store mount from any GM rear wheel drive car from the past 25-30 years is the same as the Energy Suspension mount if you don't want to spend $20+ for the Energy Suspension mount.
trans slip yoke: 31-spline ford found on C6, toploader, some AOD's. If converting from a 904 auto or a 4-spd A-body you will need to shorten driveshaft approximately 1 inch. It is up to you how you want to handle the driveshaft. Slip yoke most likely will use a spicer 1310 or spicer 1330 u-joint. Mopar Driveshaft will have either a Detroit 7260 or a Detroit 7290 u-joint. Do whatever you want to connect these together. There might be a conversion u-joint for your combination or if your slip yoke uses a 1330 u-joint you might want to get the weld yoke on the mopar driveshaft change to a Spicer 1330 style so that you have a strong and commonly available u-joint. If in doubt, talk to your local driveshaft shop. get conversion u-joints at you local napa or spicer driveshaft shop.
crossmember: you are correct, you need to make one. just make sure you keep the front and rear driveshaft angles within specs. Pretty easy to do on an A-body since the transmissions are within 1" of eachother in length.
Bellhousing: A stock bellhousing would require an adaptor plate which means $$$ machine work. A plus is that scattershield are relatively low cost when bought used and keep the trans as far forward as possible eliminating further problems with the pilot bearing and keeping the trans mount in position at the same time. Just by luck the trans mount is very close to the stock location in an a-body when using a scattershield and you really need to keep the trans as far forward as possible since a Ford input shaft is already shorter than a Mopar shaft.
Clutch disc: If you converting a mopar with 10.5 clutch simply get a 10.5 GM disc with 26-spline hub. 11" mopar get 11" Gm with 26 spline hub. If you have a high $$ Ram, McLeod disc talk to them... they might be able to put a 26 spline hub in it for you for much less than a new disc.
Pressure plate: whatever you are using now. The throwout bearing # that I posted ought to work with any style pressure plate i.e. diaphragm(centerforce), O.E. mopar style Borg&Beck or Long style.
Clutch arm: Stock mopar
Clutch linkage stock mopar.
I just need to put a mopar end on a Mustang speedo cable. I've been putting this off since I started driving the car with the Tremec installed over 6 months ago.
NOTE: a lot of this stuff becomes really obvious one you have parts in hand and begin the wrench turning. I will try to post some better AND LARGER pictures in the future hopefully with the car on a lift.Like I said before, the only work you need to farm out it turning the front bearing retainer down to mopar size(Jerry posted above that he will do it for $50) and getting the driveshaft shortened(forgot to include that above). also to fit a box stock tremec in an A-body you must cut out the loop above the trans mount but I really can't comment on B/E bodies.

Last edited by 446acuda; 06/30/05 02:53 AM.
Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: UCUDANT] #15646
06/30/05 07:41 AM
06/30/05 07:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
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East Windsor, CT
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Quote:

Looks like you lost a bit of rigidity when you cut the support




Yeah, really.

The Keisler kit has an offset shifter assembly so you don't have to do that.

Man, I was flipping out when I had to put a slight notch in my crossmember (wasn't even the crossmember, just the support in front of it) in my early B-body. And I'm running an AlterKtion so I'm not using torsion bars at all.

Don't think I could bring myself to cut out the whole thing.

Wonder if he has subframe connectors in his car...

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: UCUDANT] #15647
06/30/05 09:46 AM
06/30/05 09:46 AM
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Ansonia, CT
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Quote:

Looks like you lost a bit of rigidity when you cut the support




Looks can be deceiving. The size of the X-member where it runs under the hump, flattens out to about 3/4" high by the same width. Thats alot smaller than what you see there.

The T-bars anchor closer to the front frame rails where the T-bar x-member is welded firmly to. I do have weld in subframe connectors which definately help. While I would not drive the car without the bolt in section, I feel when it is bolted in it is fine. Seems to drive just dandy too.

Quote:

The Keisler kit has an offset shifter assembly so you don't have to do that




Yes we know, but as you know the kit is 50% more than what I spent. If you got the money and or are to aprehensive to do metal work underneath, by all means spring for the Keisler. This is merely a different option for guys willing to do some extra work to save some cash.


Mooos...

446 got most of it covered but I'll add a bit.

I got my TO bearing from Autozone, for the same application. Its a Timken bearing for $50.

You really need to use a scattershield. I though about an adapter plate but as it is the engine side of the clutch disk splines is lines right up with the end of the splines on the input. If you use an adapter plate, you will pull the input splines out of the clutch by that much.

Pilot bearing- I didn't use 446's idea. I seems good however I made my own that presses into the crank.

Slip yoke- It takes a C6 yoke. I bought one that uses a 1330 joint and also purchased a 1330 to 7290 conversion joint. My driveshaft guy talked me into buying a 1350 slipyoke to match the 1350 join on my dana. Let me know if you can use the 1330 yoke & conversion joint.

Chevy clutch. The guy at Ram said that chevy's and mopars use the same pressure plate bolt patterns. Based on this you can just buy a 26 spline disk (10.5 or 11") or a whole clutch. I bought the whole clutch. I bought a steel flywheel with a million patterns and forgot to verify this on the stock mopar flywheel.



2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: CJK440] #15648
06/30/05 10:16 AM
06/30/05 10:16 AM
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Warren, MI
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i've been doing some research on the trans swap as well. it looks as though in an ebody the shifter location is 5" forward with the tremec as compared to stock. not really a big deal to when doing a conversion. btw i don't think that little tiny peice of steel up in teh tunnel is adding that much to the structural rigidity of the frame at that point. most of the rigidity there comes from the floor pan having the hump.

so your telling me that i can buy a GM clutch setup and use it on my mopar flywheel? thats almost too good to be true. any particular year to use? i know you need the 26 spline disc and those are relatively easy to come by. also, i plan on using a hydraulic throwout bearing. so if i can buy a clutch kit as opposed to peicing all together that will save me some bucks.

BTW i am looking at putting in the tremec 3550 TKO to start since its cheaper and i just like being different. i don't plan on racing the car that hard but those transmissions can be had for about 600 on ebay. might be a good entry point while you save up the cash for the TKO. does any one know if they are that different? i would venture to guess that they are mostly the same except for the internals but i haven't seen them side by side.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: Jerry] #15649
06/30/05 10:25 AM
06/30/05 10:25 AM
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Ansonia, CT
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I would not cut the X-member without "bridging" the sides with a permanent weld in piece or a bolt in section. It is a structural piece because it anchors the T-bars.

As for the clutch, thats what the Ram tech support guy told me when I was shopping for a disk to fit my Centerforce DF pressure plate 11" (maybe 10.5 is different) and he talked me into one of their clutch sets. I would call the clutch company first to verify.

Some 3550's and TKO's have ford input splines & different shifters so make sure you know what your getting.


2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: CJK440] #15650
06/30/05 01:19 PM
06/30/05 01:19 PM
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Charlotte, NC
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446acuda Offline OP
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Yeah, what CJK440 said-any O.E. Ford Tremec probably has a 10-spline input. On clutches: typical GM use diaphragm pressure plate and Mopars used Borg & Beck pressure plates. Both B&B and diaphragm pressure plates are available in 10.5 and 11 and use identical bolt patterns. So if your clutch parts are in good condition you just need to put a new disc in. Same is true if you need a Ford 10-spline disc-just get the same size as the disc you are replacing.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15651
06/30/05 02:40 PM
06/30/05 02:40 PM
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Las Vegas
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These guys have a kit to relocate the shifters forward www.darkhorseperformance.com








that may eliminate the need to cut out the crossmember.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: JeffC] #15652
06/30/05 03:19 PM
06/30/05 03:19 PM

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The Keisler kits are very nice no doubt, but there are a couple of things I noticed about how they are setup. If you look at the web site, they have a required add on kit that's like $1800. I priced out what it would cost to set up my 72 Charger with a complete setup and it was about $5-$6 grand. Then the other thing, a low cost kit would be great. I'm setting up a 74 Duster to drive everyday. Eventually it'll have a stock 318 in it. I want to put a 5 speed in it also, but I don't need a 450hp kit for a stock 318 (not to mention I don't want to put a $3K+ kit in a $700 car). So what do I do? I've been thinking about adapting a T-5 out of a Fox body Mustang. Otherwise, the kits look great and I'd be proud to own one, unfortunatly I'm pretty broke.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics #15653
06/30/05 03:43 PM
06/30/05 03:43 PM
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Las Vegas, NV---Back Home!
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The relocation kit looks interesting; would you use the rear mount, mid-mount, or front mount shifter in an A-body application?

If I were buying all the clutch parts new (say, for converting an automatic car), did the GM vehicles just use a standard clutch setup. I mean, did they just distinguish by clutch disc size, or by transmission type? Does anyone know if an aftermarket clutch setup like a Centerforce, etc. will work with the stock-type flywheels?

Thanks, guys! You guys did some excellent R&D on this for everyone.

I hope the Mods put this in the Archive.

Nick,
Web surfin'


1970 Plymouth Valiant
Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: Mooosman] #15654
06/30/05 04:21 PM
06/30/05 04:21 PM
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Ansonia, CT
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Lars,

First thing is the required "install kit" is $130, what I think your talking about is the complete auto to stick conversion with pedals, links, humps etc.

It sounds like you could get by with one of the higher rated World Class 87-93 Mustang T-5's. They made many different strength T-5's, I think up to 330 Ft/lbs torque cap, do your research and get the right one. Swap would be very similar but the Ford T-5 uses a different mounting pattern than the tremec (which is the same as a Toploader). Pilot should be the same, shifter location should be similar, you'l just need a ford disk and a different slip yoke than what we were using.

Mooos, according to the pics that 446 supplied, the standard mustang shifter location is darn close to the factory A-body position except its on center not off to the driver side. Scroll through those attachments on page 1.

As for the clutch, 26 spline is a pretty standard GM clutch setup I beleive. I would call the clutch company to verify but I was told that a GM Pressure plate has the same bolt pattern as a mopar.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15655
06/30/05 04:43 PM
06/30/05 04:43 PM
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Darn you all......

Now I want one. How will I talk the wife into it?

Nice pics, great advice.

Thanks

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: CJK440] #15656
06/30/05 04:57 PM
06/30/05 04:57 PM

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CJ,

Yeah I'm familiar with the T-5, I had an 89 5.0 with a T-5 that I rebuilt to T-5Z specs. It was a pretty tough tranny. Ever since I got my Duster I have been thinking about the swap. Wasn't sure how to do the bellhousing until I saw this thread. Another guy on another forum adapted an old SROD Mustang tranny by having a input shaft machined that would press fit over the Ford's snout, it ended up mimicking the A833 shaft. Pretty cool stuff.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics #15657
07/02/05 12:29 AM
07/02/05 12:29 AM
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Charlotte, NC
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446acuda Offline OP
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Here are some typical applications for 26 and 10 spline discs.
26spline, 10.4" diameter(use as replacement for Mopar 10.5 disc: 82-3 5.0 camaro.
26 spline 11" diameter:'70-4 454 4-spd Chevelle, '78-80 Corvette.
10-spline 10.4" diameter: '70-1 350 corvette
10-spline 11" diameter:'67-9 427 corvette.
These are just a few of the many application for these disc diameter/spline combinations. These are from the Centerforce catalog. Ram clutch has a better breakdown in their catalog but I couldn't find it. I don't know how correct these applications are so you might want to be sure that if you order by application that you get what you think you are going to get.
Also for any of you considering using an O.E. bellhousing with an adaptor plate you might be able to get away with it even with the shorten than mopar input on the Tremec but getting Liberty gear in michigan or possibly Jamie Passon to put a long Chrysler pilot end on the Tremec. You probably need to check how much the input splines move out of the disc(with adaptor plate in place) before going this route though.

Last edited by 446acuda; 07/02/05 12:35 AM.
Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: CJK440] #15658
07/02/05 08:49 AM
07/02/05 08:49 AM

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I also got a quote from Keisler and with a hydraulic clutch set up it came to approx 4k.I'm really digging this because we have a t-5 sitting around (I work for FURD As a tech).The juices are now rightously (sp) flowing on how to get something really cool for low bucks.Keisler also digs the E bodies because according to them there are no body modifications or neccesary hack jobs to get it in.The only thing I'm kinda worried about is we are putting together a Hemi that's well over 600 Hp for the steert and I want to make sure it holds up.

You guys did a great job on the info!!!!

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15659
07/02/05 09:57 AM
07/02/05 09:57 AM
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Ansonia, CT
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Quote:

Also for any of you considering using an O.E. bellhousing with an adaptor plate you might be able to get away with it even with the shorten than mopar input on the Tremec but getting Liberty gear in michigan or possibly Jamie Passon to put a long Chrysler pilot end on the Tremec. You probably need to check how much the input splines move out of the disc(with adaptor plate in place) before going this route though.




I looked into this. What I found is that the distance from the front of the Tremec tranny case to the end of the splines on the Tremec are almost exactly the same dimension as the mounting face of the bellhousing to the inside of the disk splines. This means that if you pull the tranny out X amount, you will be losing the same amount of spline engagement.

You would need a longer shaft with longer splines.

Cudaman1- I wouldn't even think of using any factory T-5 behind a bigblock let alone a built hemi. TKO 600 for sure.


Quote:

Darn you all......

Now I want one. How will I talk the wife into it?





You can always use the "with gas prices so high, it will pay for itself!!" line.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: CJK440] #15660
07/04/05 08:35 PM
07/04/05 08:35 PM
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Wichita,KS
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Hey CJK440,
Do you think the exact swap you did would work for a 70 B-body?
Sounds very interesting and affordable!

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: Blakcharger440] #15661
07/04/05 09:00 PM
07/04/05 09:00 PM
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Warren, MI
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can someone please put this in thech archives.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: CJK440] #15662
07/07/05 09:17 AM
07/07/05 09:17 AM
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Ansonia, CT
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Update-

Found an easy way to adapt the speedometer.

Go to the parts place and buy a speedo cable from an 86 Mustang GT without Cruise. $17 from advance auto.

Search for the correct speedo gear that you need (Tremecs have a 7 tooth drive gear) here...

http://www.mindspring.com/~steveflyer/speedo_gear_select.htm


Disconnect your cable from the back of the cluster and pull out the flex cable almost all the way out from the sheath.

Locate a fairly straight section of the cable sheath under your car (usually along the frame rail) and cut the sheath removing the part that attaches to the tranny. Remove the flex cable out of the Ford sheath, match up the trimmed end of the Mopar cable and cut it close to the same spot.

Then feed the flex cable back into the mopar sheath and reinstall the cable to the speedo. Install the trimmed section of ford cable & gear into tranny. Don't forget the lock clip and O-ring.

Then snake the cable into the ford cable and try to butt the ends of the mopar and ford sheath together. Ideally you want the flex cable inside to butt inside the speedo gear and cluster before the sheaths touch. If they do, pull the cable out of the ford section and trim more testing again. Once you get about an inch gap. Take a piece of 5/16 fuel line and hose clamps to splice the sheaths together (making sure you sheaths are as close together inside the fuel line before clamping down).

Cheap, simple and very effective.


2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: CJK440] #15663
07/20/05 06:30 PM
07/20/05 06:30 PM
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Charlotte, NC
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I'm sitting at the table eating a turkey sub and looking at the tremec installation tips that came with my TKO-600 trans. Turns out there are front and mid mount shifters available directly from Tremec. Front mount shifter is #TCKT1960, midmount shifter(good for e-bodies?)is #2671127 and offset? shifter is # 30-17-3X. These should be available from anybody that sells Tremec transmissions.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15664
07/20/05 08:57 PM
07/20/05 08:57 PM
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Seattle WA
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Quote:

Trans: no TKO-600's in stock applications. Closest thing might be a Tremec 3550? used in mustang cobras, i think. Not many used TKO-500 or 600 out there yet so new is really your only choice.Mine is Ford application #5008 w/ 0.64 overdrive ratio. A 0.8X ratio is also available just make sure you get the one for a Ford application since the GM version has a much shorter input shaft and since mopar used the longer input shaft than Ford or GM it really help having the added length of the ford shaft.




If you use the Hayes Chrysler bellhousing with the GM trans pattern you could might move the whole trans forward and make it easier to install. I don't know how much shorter it is than a Chrysler bellhousing and I assume you would need the GM spec trans. I think this bellhousing is designed to enable "GM" super T10s to be used with Chrysler small blocks.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: RichV] #15665
07/21/05 12:10 AM
07/21/05 12:10 AM
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Charlotte, NC
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What size is the front bearing retainer hole in the Hayes housing?

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: CJK440] #15666
07/21/05 03:49 AM
07/21/05 03:49 AM

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Hey CJ, do you think if you had used the center shift mount you wouldn't have had to cut the X member? I'm not really scared to do it, but the less metal I'd have to cut the better.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics #15667
07/21/05 10:49 AM
07/21/05 10:49 AM
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Ansonia, CT
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Quote:

Hey CJ, do you think if you had used the center shift mount you wouldn't have had to cut the X member? I'm not really scared to do it, but the less metal I'd have to cut the better.




No.

The problem is the aluminum housing the shifter bolts to is still to large so even if you removed the rear shifter and threw a piece of sheet metal over it it would still collide, you would have to machine down the "box" that the shifter bolts to and cover it. However, if you did all that and used the forward conversion kit, the shifter would be way too close to the dash, the rearmost shifter position it is still not as far back as the stock location. Also, the shifter conversion kit isn't cheap.

Quote:

What size is the front bearing retainer hole in the Hayes housing?




Lakewood makes that bell.


engine to transmission adapter
These engine to transmission adapters are an excellent choice for street rods, street machines or oval track applications where the use of an SFI approved bellhousing is not required. Made from .250" thick hydro- formed steel, these adapters are much stronger than factory aluminum bellhousings and allow for easier welding of brackets etc. that are usually required when doing engine swaps. NOTE: These engine to transmission adapters are NOT safety bellhousings. They do not include nor accept a block plate and do NOT meet SFI specifications. Fits Chrysler 1964-83 with 273-318-340-360 V-8. Notes: Fits 130-tooth flywheel. Transmission: GM Muncie/Saginaw, Richmond/BW & T-10, and Jerico. Bore Diameter 4.684. Depth 6.312. Fork Opening 2.50 x 3.75.
Part Number: 77-325


The mopar bells are 7.38 deep so it appears by using the conversion bell, you pull the tranny forward about 1". Not sure if thats enough to clear the crossmember in an E body.



2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15668
07/25/05 01:02 AM
07/25/05 01:02 AM
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Santa Rosa, NOR*CAL.
Just Cameron Offline
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So neither of you guys are using a Hyd. bearing?

Seems like the easy way to go when swapping from an Auto? How hard is it to adapt the cyl. to the Mopar clutch pedal?

Would I order the one for a Mopar or a Ford?

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: Just Cameron] #15669
07/25/05 01:57 AM
07/25/05 01:57 AM
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Charlotte, NC
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Posts: 2,734
Charlotte, NC
Even when using the hydraulic tob kit you still have to mount the clutch pedal, which is more than half the work anyway. All that is left after that is mounting the bellcrank. IMO these hydraulic throwout bearings open up a whole new source of possible problems, leaks, etc where the mechanical linkage is dead reliable and won't leave you stranded on the side of the road which is something to consider if you are really going to drive your car. I also don't like brake fluid that close to my clutch disc. I would use the hyd set up only in a car where there is no room for linkage but I haven't found that so far even with big block A-bodies with 2" TTI/chrysler power headers, ProParts/McCandless/Hensley? 2" headers, 2" tubular automotive or hookers. Might be a good setup for a 440, 4-spd colt?

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: 446acuda] #15670
07/25/05 02:32 AM
07/25/05 02:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,561
Santa Rosa, NOR*CAL.
Just Cameron Offline
Too Many Posts
Just Cameron  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,561
Santa Rosa, NOR*CAL.
My interior is pretty much stripped right now anyway, so all I have to do is pull the wiring, and I learned a cool dash removal tip from Jim Lusk. Dremel the threaded clips on the seam off and install new ones later with the screws facing UP this time.

Should give me easy access to mount stock A Body pedals.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: Just Cameron] #15671
07/25/05 07:48 AM
07/25/05 07:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
C
CJK440 Offline
master
CJK440  Offline
master
C

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
Quote:

So neither of you guys are using a Hyd. bearing?





Me neither. Didn't see the need. I was able to use 100% of my existing clutch linkage with the exception of the TO bearing.

Re: CHEAP Tremec 600 installation pics [Re: CJK440] #15672
08/01/05 07:31 PM
08/01/05 07:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
BBR Offline
master
BBR  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
Out of the box thinking for cable clutch operation, if a guy was so inclined to go that route.

http://www.ronmorrisperformance.com/03clutch/index.html


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