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Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: 70dart360] #154933
11/23/08 04:36 PM
11/23/08 04:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
70AARcuda Offline
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las vegas
the question of the original post is???

318 small block build recommendation....

not replacing your 318 with a 360...

he is asking for suggestions on making his 318 run better...

yes 360s will out 318s ...but it is not what he is asking...

Last edited by 70AARcuda; 11/23/08 04:38 PM.

Tony

70 AARCuda Vitamin C
71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield)
71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas)
71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Neil] #154934
11/23/08 05:14 PM
11/23/08 05:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda Offline
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Quote:


I hope you talking about a modified big block. I don't think a stock B,RB, or Hemi can even run with a reasonably built 4" crank smallblock.




We need a Ricky Recardo smiley cause that's simply ridiculous, lol.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Supercuda] #154935
11/23/08 05:42 PM
11/23/08 05:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,348
Eagle, Idaho
Neil Offline
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Neil  Offline
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Eagle, Idaho
A conservative 408 or 416 smallblock will turn low twelves or high elevens at around 110 mph. I have never seen one go slower than that. On the other hand I have seen plenty of stock and even mildly built 440's that are stuck in the 14's at 95 mph. I won't even bring up the 15 second 4-speed 1970 superbird I saw.

Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Neil] #154936
11/23/08 06:17 PM
11/23/08 06:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda Offline
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we were talking about a stroked 318.

As for the 440's you saw, well who can say what hamfisted goonery hapened over the years.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Supercuda] #154937
11/23/08 08:18 PM
11/23/08 08:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,586
Tampa, FL
tpabayflyer Offline
pro stock
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Tampa, FL
Quote:

Quote:


I hope you talking about a modified big block. I don't think a stock B,RB, or Hemi can even run with a reasonably built 4" crank smallblock.




We need a Ricky Recardo smiley cause that's simply ridiculous, lol.




Lets keep this simple.. a stock 440 4bbl makes about 375 hp??? My lil ole 390 stroker makes around 450hp... this is at the crank. Stock 440 uses exhaust manifolds, stock intake etc.. I think my 83 cordoba 390 would wail on just about any stock 440 thrown my way. Granted, I have nice headers, ported heads, cam etc, but when I said it pulls like a big block that is what I am comparing it to.

Steve Dulcich made 425 HP with a stock stroke 318 using the same EQ magnum heads I used. They ported theirs to flow 270Intake at .500 lift and 219 at .500 on the exhaust side.

Here is what he had to say about bore shrouding....

""A 318's bore is too small!" Tell it to the even smaller-bore LS1 guys. "The 318 was never a high-performance engine." Maybe true, but we'll show you how to make it one!"

What is the stock bore of an LS1? 3.900?????

Check out the article at:

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0810phr_chrysler_318_engine/index.html

Is the 318 a performance engine? No... can it be built into a performance engine? Of course. Is a 340 or 360 a better foundation for a performance build? Sure it is, but if all you have is a 318 that is still a great perfomance engine waiting to be built. I have a late model magnum 5.2 in my Grand Cherokee that will be getting the full 390 treatment soon. Could I have got a used 5.9 block to build? Yes, but why spend the money for an extra 20-25 HP when I have the 5.2 block already. Not worth it to me.

Here is a peek of what a 71 Olds cutlass 455 got to see when I was at the strip and still could not make a clean pass..... 13.75 @102 without hitting 3rd gear. TBF

4834279-1983Doba134.jpg (209 downloads)

71 Challenger 528 Hemi project
09 Gr Cherokee 5.7 hemi in da house!!
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: tpabayflyer] #154938
11/23/08 08:33 PM
11/23/08 08:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
mark7171 Offline
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ILL
I think the stock performance 318 heads with 1.88/1.60 valves and 125 cc runners is what their thinking of. Add a 2.76 gear and your flying!

my 323" 4dr 4spd pulls the same as the first 4 gears of a 90's 5spd 5.0L mustang.

My 323's pistons were .060+/- down in the hole. The Aerohead performance 130cc 318 port 1.88/1.60 heads had 72 cc chambers, and could be angle milled (with an optional reset of the piston valve reliefs) , to the low 60's. You could make 8.8-9:1 compression easily with a 318 stock bottom. Most people are going to rebuild the heads anyways. I say why not?

I have a bigblock convertible 4spd cuda, and would recomend a good old mild modern 440. they can do what ever you want, and last forever inexpensively.


Last edited by mark7171; 11/23/08 08:40 PM.
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: tpabayflyer] #154939
11/24/08 07:55 AM
11/24/08 07:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
Moparmal Offline
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Melbourne.....Oz-land
Well said tpabayflyer.

My 318/349 runs a close to flat 13 in a 3600 lb car on road tyres with 3.9 gears , STOCK 360 heads, 10:1 comp and a [Email]231@.050[/Email] - .495 cam -

Thats just about identical to my buddies 360 with the same cam, and same weight car.

So with the 318 block already decked, align honed and magged - why would I start again with a 360?

It'll be a 4" arm for me next, an XS282S and heads ported to 250cfm - and Im chasing a flat 12........not bad for a "shrouded bore" boat anchor.

Bottom line - if you've got the $$ sunk into a prepped 318 - the 4" arm makes sense -

If its a 'start from scratch scenario - the cost of the 360 heads for the 390 balances out the extra cost of buyng a whole 360 long.

Last edited by Moparmal; 11/24/08 08:07 AM.

67 RO23 clone with 6.1 SRT Hemi and dual quads. Soon to have Drag Pak induction and Throttle body.
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: 70AARcuda] #154940
11/24/08 09:40 AM
11/24/08 09:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
MNobody Offline
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Michigan
Quote:



Ok all you 318 mopeds…you need to park your car and stop wasting fossil fuels and most of all bandwidth..

You should not post questions concerning rebuilding a worthless engine, even though it may be the only thing you have at the time because unlike other people, you might have a wife …kids…mortgage and sometimes like to eat…

You are not allowed to post any further questions concerning your under powered 318, you should use all your resources that you don’t have cause of items listed above and get that 340/360 engine that you dream about every moment of the day and night

Until you have a mighty arsenal of 6 340 blocks…7 360 blocks…6 set of W2 heads…2 set of W5 heads and several set of eddy heads your questions about increasing the performance of a 318 is a waste…

And I always thought hot rodding was about doing what you want to do with what ever you have to do it with….also…being a mopar person is being different….so fire up those 318 and run up the rear end of those you say you cant do it….

Ok…I am done ranting….





No doubt, my 318 is pushing close to 400 hp and run's right up to 7000 rpm everytime.

Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: MNobody] #154941
11/24/08 10:44 AM
11/24/08 10:44 AM
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Posts: 7,978
Bethel Ct
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AdamR Offline
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Bethel Ct
winter time all ready ?

The question was what can I do to hop up a 318. The car is a convertible so it probably a a nice cruiser not a street strip car. a 4" stroker crank isnt need to make a great cruiser with a little pep.

I would add a set of EQ Magnum heads with the LA intake bolts. Then you can use a stock iron TQ intake and keep that factory look. Look for a 72 340 T.Q.

For a cam I would use something like the XE256 or XE262 from Comp cams. For rockers you can either use stock pieces or small block chevy arms work too,

To use stock exhaust manifolds with the magnum heads you may need to fab up some adapters or maybe use a set of header flanges to fix the port mis match.


The other way to go is find a set of 302 casting heads and have a good valve job done and maybe a little port clean up.

add some 355 gears and go. It wont be blistering fast but it will be a big step up from the stock 2bbl 318 and all of your brackets and A/C stuff will bolt right up.

Last edited by AdamR; 11/24/08 10:46 AM.
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: tpabayflyer] #154942
03/14/09 10:38 AM
03/14/09 10:38 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 583
Raleigh, NC
R
rockerbob Offline
mopar
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Raleigh, NC
I'm a believer in the 390 stroker. I love the 360's too, but its just so neat to kick butt in a 318.

5092265-Bob.jpg (222 downloads)

2005 Dakota 4X4 3.7 2004 Rumble Bee 5.7 1978 Diplomat 318 1969 Satellite 318 "bracket racer" 1966 Barracuda (in progress ) 1964 Dodge 330 (future race project) 1962 Belvedere (HUM????)
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: rockerbob] #154943
03/14/09 12:16 PM
03/14/09 12:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,314
St. Louis, Mo
3
318 Stroker Offline
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St. Louis, Mo
I have a 318 stroker in my 73 Challenger...(Hence, my screen name). I bought the car when it was 6 mos. old, so we go back a long way... I decided to hop up the #'s matching motor (yeah, I know...big deal...a #'s 318 car, but it was a big deal to me)...

It's bored .060, 4" crank, Eddy heads, factory 340 hi-po manifolds. It's now 396 cubes, approx. 400 HP & torgue, 3.55 sure-grip. I've had a few Mopar buddys drive it, and they say it runs on a par with a stock big block.

I love my 318 "polished turd". Puts a smile on my face every time I get on it...

Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: 70AARcuda] #154944
11/21/09 10:49 PM
11/21/09 10:49 PM

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Anonymous
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dude stop talking smack on the 318. Do you know why some people build 318s because they dont want what every one else has. every one wants a 340 our 360 to build but if you build a 318 you dont have what every one else has and you stand out.

Re: 318 small block build recomendations #154945
11/21/09 11:13 PM
11/21/09 11:13 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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scratchnfotraction Offline
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Florida


try one of the 390 strokers with a nice roller cam block

"polished turd" Indeed

390 be brakin trannys


Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: scratchnfotraction] #154946
11/22/09 03:20 PM
11/22/09 03:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
I Live Here
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Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
hmm...if the engine is currently a good runner, I'd be tempted to pick up another to build, so the car isn't down as long....

personally, I'd start with an '85-up 318 or '89 up 360....why? factory roller cam. you can either use any aftermarket hydraulic roller cam with the stock lifters, or get the stock roller cam reground.

my combo, which pushes my 3900 lb 5th ave with athorita':

stock '86 long block, pistons .055 in the hole
MR. gasket .028" thick head gaskets
OEM magnum heads home ported by me.
stock magnum pushrods, rockers, lifters
stock '86 roller cam reground by www.bulletcams.com with their HR259/316 lobe both intake and exhaust
headers
eddie RPM air gap, eddie 1406 carb

don't have any times or anything, but compared to the former 360, it should be a solid mid 14 second quarter....not bad for a car that is 4100 lbs + with me in it and 3.55 rear.

if you plan on using the original short block, I'd just use enginequest 318B heads (hughes sells them for $700/pr), lunati voodoo 60400 or 60401 cam, stock magnum rockers, and an eddie RPM or LD340 intake (looks more stock than an air gap). I'd definitely run headers, they'll give you about 20hp/20 lb-ft of torque over manifolds.


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: gtx6970] #154947
11/23/09 05:16 AM
11/23/09 05:16 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 583
Raleigh, NC
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rockerbob Offline
mopar
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Raleigh, NC
A 318 is only 22 cubes less than our famous & beloved 340. 318 blocks are not as strong as 340 or 360 blocks. However they are plenty strong for a good street motor. 350 hp is easy. 400 is do-able. As for 360 heads lowering the compression ration due to their larger chamber. Well thats not a bad thing "if" you want to run the cheap 87 octang gas. Stroker motors are the cheapest way to get good HP #'s, but are not too good on gas. I have a stock 318 short block in my bracket car. Orginal pistons still in it. 360LA heads 340 cam and its was cheap to build. A friend of mine has a 2002 Z28 Camaro 350. She says is stock (not so sure as I look at the cold air box on it) and was rated at 350HP. I have no trouble beater her in a heads up race. Her car is a bit heaiver & has a highway gear so she is gaining at the top end, but my 4:10 gear is holding me back on the top yet I still get by over a car length. Trust me that 318 of his can be made to run real nice. I would put headers on it though. Just my


2005 Dakota 4X4 3.7 2004 Rumble Bee 5.7 1978 Diplomat 318 1969 Satellite 318 "bracket racer" 1966 Barracuda (in progress ) 1964 Dodge 330 (future race project) 1962 Belvedere (HUM????)
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: rockerbob] #154948
11/19/10 06:42 PM
11/19/10 06:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 189
Wisconsin,USA
Bzzzz Offline
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Wisconsin,USA
how is the 318/390 using a Magnum combo for something like an old Jeep SJ ?? the AMC 360 is getting pretty tired and its just not as efficient im hoping with the longer stroke and more power it would be a little more easier on the Wallet??


2005 Dodge 1500 Slt Hemi
2008 Chrysler PT cruiser
1984 Dodge D250
1978 Dodge D100 Adventurer
1964 Meyers Manx Dunebuggy


Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Bzzzz] #154949
11/19/10 11:30 PM
11/19/10 11:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,167
Maryland
GO_Fish Offline
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Maryland
if you have a good 318 block in hand and the budget is limited, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger on a 390 stroker. I still have the matching # 318 from my '68 B'cuda sitting in the corner waiting for a rebuild. Now matching # 'teens aren't a big concern, but I still think it would be neat to drop the original block back in the engine bay someday and kick some butt!

Last edited by GO_Fish; 11/19/10 11:32 PM.

Scott B. "I'm a self-made man... I started with nothing, and I still have most of it!" 68 360 rusty B'cuda 'vert (GO Fish)13.59@ 98.72 mph 69 340 GTS stock 14.18@ 95.60 mph 01 5.9L Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4x4 01 3.5L 300M 16.23@ 86.97 mph
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Supercuda] #154950
11/20/10 10:56 AM
11/20/10 10:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 480
Kentucky, USA
D
derekeh Offline
mopar
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Posts: 480
Kentucky, USA
Quote:

Quote:



I agree, not many people complain about the Ford 289, and definitely not the infamous 302. Mopar guys tend to trash the 318 pretty quick.




Why would that be Goody?

Tell us what engineering difference there is between the 302 and the 318 that makes the 302 a better performance engine?

Do you even know?




I would like to know the answer to this please.

Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: tpabayflyer] #154951
11/20/10 11:06 AM
11/20/10 11:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,323
NY NY
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340duster340 Offline
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NY NY
Quote:

rebuild the 318 on the cheap with a cast 4" crank... 390 cubes and mild upgrades will yield minimum 400HP easily and all the accessories,trans,etc will work..... Why everybody is so against that I can't understand... My 390 1983 Cordoba 3.73 gear is quite a bit faster than my old 'Cuda 360 with 3.91 gear.a 360 is nice but a 390 is better! TBF




cheap 4 inch crank? that is a recipe for disaster. the words cheap and crank should not be used in the same sentence.

do magnum 318 or 360, best bang for the buck there.

Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Supercuda] #154952
11/20/10 12:44 PM
11/20/10 12:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 591
Champion City
The Sphinx Offline
mopar
The Sphinx  Offline
mopar

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Posts: 591
Champion City
Quote:

Quote:



I agree, not many people complain about the Ford 289, and definitely not the infamous 302. Mopar guys tend to trash the 318 pretty quick.




Why would that be Goody?

Tell us what engineering difference there is between the 302 and the 318 that makes the 302 a better performance engine?

Do you even know?





Gee Wally, you think it's the extra .090 on the bore?
If it's all about the bore and stroke then why does a 3.5 liter from a new mopar put out more HP than a 1978 360? Maybe it's all those little thingys inside there working in perfect harmony.

Lets go back to bashing on Goody.......Goodys 318 is so slow it can only pass a 383.......and a gas station

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