How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers?
#1548064
12/15/13 11:32 PM
12/15/13 11:32 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836 Florida
mopar346
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Built the engine for my AAR this week end, pretty much a stock build except it is running a hydraulic purple shaft with the original adjustable rocker arms. In the past I have either run non-adjustables with hydraulics or a solid lift cam. When I have done brand X motors with shaft style rockers I roll the push rod between my thumb and forefinger and simply tighten them until I feel resistance. I tried that this evening it didn't feel right, no real spring pressure. I ended up backing them off until the plunger was on the clip and then tightened it little to get a some clearance between the plunger and the clip. It I correct in my thinking I will be fine as long as I am in the plunger action but not deep enough for them to bottom out. Still just not comfortable, since the break in is fire it up and run it at 2000 rpms for 20 minutes it is critical that I have them adjusted right from the get go.
So with that said how do YOU do it to be safe and of course get the best performance. I have always heard loose valves equals more power at higher RPMs.
Thanks in advance, Kevin
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Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers?
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1548066
12/15/13 11:55 PM
12/15/13 11:55 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Dayclona is on to the fact that the type and even the brand of lifter can make a big diff. Some of the newer stuff requires less preload --that being said old days 3/4 to a full turn these days most work great with 1/2 - 3/4 turn for street. The deal about less gives more power etc is often said yet seldom experienced. If you are racing a hyd cam you have a problem to start with IMO but...in a race engine you can set them to almost zero preload and get some more ( not much) RPM out of it-- on the street that would not be the smart move. Looking at your set up I would say 3/4 turn and never take valve covers off ever again The Best way is with intake off as you show--that way you can eyeball it as you do them all and get it very close. Use air to blow the oil from around the wire clip so you can really see what you are doing on each one. The ole feel it until it doesn't turn etc can be very deceptive and you learn that when you do it with intake off--some, for one reason or another do not give the right feel--you see this more with un run, un pumped lifters. 3/4 and let them rip Hyd rollers ( most by Morel) are way less-- like a 1/4 turn and can be very sensitive to change
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Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers?
[Re: mopar346]
#1548067
12/16/13 12:02 AM
12/16/13 12:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,193 Omaha Ne
TJP
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I Live Here
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This is the simplest and the most accurate method taught to me 40 years ago. it has never failed me. A remote starter switch will be very helpful for this process Hydraulic lifters can be set, hot or cold, pumped up or not using this procedure. It will also work for an initial set up on a solid lifter motor. For Hydraulics, most manufacturers want .020-.040 preload. If you have a 3-8 x 24 adjuster, 1” divided by 24 TPI = .0416” so 1/2 turn beyond zero lash, will = .020 , 3/4 turn will = .030. I like to start at the LF corner of the motor. (exhaust) Turn the engine over in the direction of rotation until the intake valve for that cylinder is almost closed. You can now adjust the exhaust valve for that cylinder. Loosen the adjusting nut until the pushrod spins freely between your finger tips. While spinning the pushrod slowly tighten the adjusting screw, when you find zero lash your will feel a definite change in resistance to spinning the pushrod. You may want to repeat this a few times to get the “feel”. Once zero lash is found, add 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn and lock the adjuster. Move to the next valve in line (intake). Rotate the motor in the direction of rotation until the exhaust valve for that cylinder just begins to open. Repeat the above adjustment procedure. Repeat the process for the remaining cylinders. Summary: Adjust the exhaust as the Intake is almost closed Adjust the intake as the exhaust just starts to open
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Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers?
[Re: ]
#1548068
12/16/13 12:14 AM
12/16/13 12:14 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836 Florida
mopar346
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Cant swear to the type but I beleive they are stock style (can with the car when I bought it, no box, short block asseook it mbled, I just took it apart to check and clean everything, been sitting awhile). They have never been run and not pumped up, I considered priming and spinning the engine to try to pump them up but I cant see that it would help me.I know what you mean about the finger roll being deceiving at times, depending on the lifter they can bleed off pretty quickly.
So if I understand you correctly, tighten them to barely contact the pnucher and tighten them 3/4 of a turn and lock them down and I will be in the set 'em and forget 'em crowd.
Thanks a lot folks, that makes me feel better.
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Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers?
[Re: mopar346]
#1548069
12/16/13 12:26 AM
12/16/13 12:26 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
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Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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I wiggle the pushrod up & down slightly till I just get to zero play then additionally tighten down the amt of preload I want & 3/4 turn sounds good
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers?
[Re: mopar346]
#1548073
12/16/13 01:18 PM
12/16/13 01:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,363 Abilene, Texas
fastmark
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master
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Abilene, Texas
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You said something just does not feel right? Well, I've built several T/A engines and several other 340 Hyd cam adjustable rockers combinations and here is something you really need to check.I have found that when you surface the heads, deck the block, do a valve job or especially a combination of these, it throws off the push rod geometry of these engines. The stock factory push rods for a T/A engines are right on the verge of being to long from the factory. You do any of these things in a normal rebuild, and you will have the cup end of the push rod interfere with the bottom of the rocker!
I had a bud who had a T/A engine built buy his local sprint car engine builder. He could not wait for me to build it. I gave this same warning before the engine was assembled and got a " I know what I'm doing response". The completed engine ran like crap and the lifters rattled all the time. My bud was even warned by the engine builder to " do not let Mark mess with it because HE had the correct pre-load on the lifters". After several months of the " I did it right" from the engine builder, my bud finally asked me to look at it. Yes, some of the push rods were hitting the rockers and still had too much pre-load. A new set of push rods and 1/2 turn of preload and it ran properly. I have found that Isky makes a push rod that is a little shorter than the stock push rods and works great. It is either 1309 or 1310, if my memory serves me correctly. One is hyd and one is for solid lifters. If your adjusters don't have a couple of threads showing below the rockers, then they may be too long.
Just a warning from an experience T/A builder.
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Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers?
[Re: fastmark]
#1548074
12/16/13 01:41 PM
12/16/13 01:41 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836 Florida
mopar346
OP
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OP
Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836
Florida
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Quote:
You said something just does not feel right? Well, I've built several T/A engines and several other 340 Hyd cam adjustable rockers combinations and here is something you really need to check.I have found that when you surface the heads, deck the block, do a valve job or especially a combination of these, it throws off the push rod geometry of these engines. The stock factory push rods for a T/A engines are right on the verge of being to long from the factory. You do any of these things in a normal rebuild, and you will have the cup end of the push rod interfere with the bottom of the rocker!
I had a bud who had a T/A engine built buy his local sprint car engine builder. He could not wait for me to build it. I gave this same warning before the engine was assembled and got a " I know what I'm doing response". The completed engine ran like crap and the lifters rattled all the time. My bud was even warned by the engine builder to " do not let Mark mess with it because HE had the correct pre-load on the lifters". After several months of the " I did it right" from the engine builder, my bud finally asked me to look at it. Yes, some of the push rods were hitting the rockers and still had too much pre-load. A new set of push rods and 1/2 turn of preload and it ran properly. I have found that Isky makes a push rod that is a little shorter than the stock push rods and works great. It is either 1309 or 1310, if my memory serves me correctly. One is hyd and one is for solid lifters. If your adjusters don't have a couple of threads showing below the rockers, then they may be too long.
Just a warning from an experience T/A builder.
Thank you, I was watching for that because I have seen it before on solid engines. The machine work was done before me but none of the receipt indicate resurfacing but that was 25 years after birth so who knows. The push rods are also new and unidentified but appear chrome moloy. The intake push rods are fine due to the angle, the exhaust ones are tighter but I think still have plenty of room. I have watched it through the motion and it seems OK. I may hook up a starter and take it through the motion faster and then pull a couple to look for contact. A great caution though so thanks again.
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Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1548075
12/16/13 01:50 PM
12/16/13 01:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,309 Prospect, PA
BSB67
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Quote:
On a all iron cold motors (heads and blocks) with hydraulic lifters and adjustable rocker arms like yours I like and use between 1/4 to 1/2 turn preload from zero I have seen recommendations from some of the cam grinders to look for .015 preload cold on a all iron motor between the lifter cup and the retaining ring on top of the lifters when adjusted cold with the intake off
I use 0.010" or less cold with iron.
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Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers?
[Re: mopar346]
#1548078
12/16/13 11:11 PM
12/16/13 11:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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If the intake is off & if the lobes on #6 cyl are "up" partway then I know I am on the "right" TDC (#1 compression). If the intake is on I move the crank a bit back & forth on either side of TDC & if the #1 cyls' rockers do not move then that also tells me that I am on the "right" TDC (#1 compression)
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: How do YOU adjust hydraulic lifters with adj rockers?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1548083
12/19/13 10:44 AM
12/19/13 10:44 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,836 Florida
mopar346
OP
Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
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OP
Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
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Sorry, I didn't check back, I adjusted them several days ago and used 3/4 of a turn after contact. To make sure I was at TDC I made sure the lifters were both at there lowest pointwith my fingers on them and then made my adjustment, turned 90* and duplicated the process. I tried to check for clearance bu the valve spring is much weaker than the lifer spring so no go, I'm gonna pump it up and check everything in a few days.
Thanks for all the input, Kevin
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