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Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: dustergirl340] #1529055
11/08/13 10:07 AM
11/08/13 10:07 AM
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Turku, Finland
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Quote:

Great post GetAwayDriver...you REALLY need to write that book.




Oh yes! The truth must come out! I promise to buy at least 10 copies!

Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: feets] #1529056
11/08/13 10:17 AM
11/08/13 10:17 AM
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Brantford Ontario
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In Canada the Top 3 in terms of sales is Ford, GM and Chrysler. They're all fairly close. What are the Top 3 in the States?

Dave

Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: 69_SIX_PACK] #1529057
11/08/13 02:43 PM
11/08/13 02:43 PM
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St. John's Newfoundland
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Quote:

In Canada the Top 3 in terms of sales is Ford, GM and Chrysler. They're all fairly close. What are the Top 3 in the States?

Dave




I've read before that American cars sell better in Canada per capita than they do in the US itself for whatever reasons. Chrysler has a few cars that are #1 in their class here I believe.

Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: GetAwayDriver] #1529058
11/13/13 01:13 PM
11/13/13 01:13 PM
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CT
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It would be nice if we didn't crap up this thread with the typical Moparts back & forth "My $70,000 luxury car is better/faster/more stylish than your $70,000 luxury car" and just answered the guy's question.

If you really want to attempt something interesting, consider a take that includes the change in American society occurring at the same time a new generation of Americans suddenly found not only foreign cars, but pretty much any consumer product from another nation to be superior.

It's no coincidence that the culture wars of the later 60s cast large American companies in the role of "the man", "the establishment", and therefore worthy of scorn and rebellion. In 1945, American companies spoke with pride about the number of tanks, planes, bombs, etc. produced in their factories to beat back Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and Imperial Japan. By the later 60s, "war machines" were the last thing you wanted associated with your company.

But it wouldn't really matter. Your uncle drove a Chrysler (or an Oldsmobile) watched a big wooden Zenith TV, and probably dropped out of school during the depression. He was a little rough around the edges, told some racist jokes, and wore a short hair cut. Your college professor drove a Volkswagen (or a Toyota) watched a small plastic Panasonic TV, was highly educated, refined and (at least publicly) claimed to believe in equality.

The truth is, the first imported-to-US consumer products were junk. My '70 Dart-driving mother often said if she had a dime for each time she had to rescue her VW-driving friend, she could have paid for the car. I had an oddball-uncle who bought a '78 Honda and after a couple Michigan winters, it had rusted so badly the doors wouldn't open. Honda's with the early CVCC engine would smoke after a few thousand miles. Mazda's rotary engines were such a disaster only a 15% investment from Ford saved the company. Chrysler nearly purchased Mitsubishi when the parent company was almost ready to give up manufacturing cars. Toyota actually withdrew from the US market for 8-years. BMW was nearly bought out by Mercedes. Fiat gave up on the US. So did the French. British makes simply went out of business.

Yet a few found a market, and that market was based more on perceptions about the BUYERS of product than the actual product itself. I just watched an episode of the mid-70s American TV show "Maude", an outspoken, middle-aged, politically liberal woman living in suburban Tuckahoe, Westchester County, New York The show was created by Norman Lear, a well-known politically liberal man. In this episode, the writers made an obvious effort to describe the well-educated, handsome character as the driver of a Toyota. This struck me as odd, since TV shows (especially in that era) would never mention a specific brand of car... To the point of being ridiculous and having a mechanic describe a getaway car to the police as a "white sedan". In another Norman Lear show, (All in the Family) the Gloria character (always smarter than her father) is mentioned several times as driving a Toyota. I don't believe these were coincidences, and these were HUGELY popular shows.

The automotive press of the day was much the same. Read a review of American luxury cars from the early 70s and you'll find more references to "bourgeoisie" and "establishment" than a communist rally. Consumers Union is the policy and action division of Consumer Reports.

From Wikipedia:


Quote:

Consumers Union's predecessor, Consumers' Research, was founded in 1926.[3] In 1936, Consumers Union was founded[4] by Arthur Kallet, Colston Warne, and others who felt that the established Consumers' Research organization was not aggressive enough. Kallet, an engineer and director of Consumers' Research, had a falling out with F.J. Schlink and started his own organization with Amherst College economics professor Colston Warne. In part due to actions of Consumers' Research, the House Un-American Activities Committee placed Consumers Union on a list of subversive organizations, only to remove it in 1954.

Prominent consumer advocate Ralph Nader was on the board of directors, but left in 1975 due to a "division of philosophy" with new Executive Director Rhoda Karpatkin.[5] Nader wanted Consumers Union to focus on policy and product advocacy, while Karpatkin focused on product testing




Mother Jones magazine (hardly a magazine for squares) broke the story on "exploding Pintos" and those evil Detroit executives who would rather burn innocent Pinto owners than spend an extra $3 per car. Too bad the Rutger's Law Review showed Pintos to be statistically AVERAGE for fires after a rear-end collision, and the only time a dollar amount was put on a human life was in a study done by the US government to establish damages... Not beforehand by Ford execs who sent their own kids off to college in Pintos.

Believe it or not, there WERE people in the 1960s and 70s who wanted to see these huge symbols of American capitalism FAIL, and create opportunity in the middle of the economic chaos.

Against this backdrop of social change, came a wave of early 70s government regulation that ensured many Americans would have a negative experience, as opposed to a "love affair" with their automobile. Let's not forget the OPEC oil embargo of 1973 imposed by Arab nations as punishment for US support of Israel.

American companies never made much of an effort to penetrate foreign markets (therefore broadening their product line up, and making them better prepared for a run-up of gas prices) because they were met with protectionist measures... Sometimes these measures to halt imports were ironic legacies of the Marshall plan to rebuild European and Japanese industry!

In summary... Were there crappy American cars built in the 70s/80s? Undeniably. But for every Vega there was a Mazda with worn rotor seals burning oil. For every Toyota with 200,000 miles on the 22r, there is a Buick with 200k on the 3800 V6.

Chrysler's manufacturing in particular was barely functional by the late 70s, and luckily they didn't have the money to re-design their chassis/engine/transmission designs from the 60s. What engineering dollars were available (at all the American producers) went into designing anti-pollution equipment which didn't become mandatory in Europe until the early 90s (Euro I, 1993).

Any paper should include these points, or it risks becoming just another rehash of mainstream media pablum. I recommend this webpage in particular:

http://www.fairimage.org/historyofinnovation.htm




Very good post


Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: GTX MATT] #1529059
11/13/13 01:29 PM
11/13/13 01:29 PM
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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What really bugs me is that Foreign cars have the perception of greater quality and reliability even today when most of the Foreign brands are now built in the United States by the same workers who build American brands! The coolaid drinkers are definitely winning...


The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.

JB Rhinehart, Realist

A-Body's RULE!
Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: GTX MATT] #1529060
11/13/13 02:35 PM
11/13/13 02:35 PM
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Posts: 21,473
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12 Online content
Too Many Posts
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N.E. OHIO, USA
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

BTW nice looking car (IMO)







Ick.




I will agree with feets on this one




Something that was pointed out to me by a Euro designer when someone made a comment about the flat paint finish on part of a vehicle. The North American buyer is different than the Euro buy, you're more likely to see chrome door handles and chrome or highly polished wheels on a North American vehicle than a Euro designed vehicle than the standard body color door handles and silver painted wheels....that's why the Caddy has the polished wheels and chrome door handles and may look Icky to some that like or see a lot of high end Euro vehicles.

Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: A12] #1529061
11/13/13 08:30 PM
11/13/13 08:30 PM
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Posts: 1,878
Detroit, MI
GetAwayDriver Offline
top fuel
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Quote:



Something that was pointed out to me by a Euro designer when someone made a comment about the flat paint finish on part of a vehicle. The North American buyer is different than the Euro buy, you're more likely to see chrome door handles and chrome or highly polished wheels on a North American vehicle than a Euro designed vehicle than the standard body color door handles and silver painted wheels....that's why the Caddy has the polished wheels and chrome door handles and may look Icky to some that like or see a lot of high end Euro vehicles.




Keeping it bland is a way to avoid scorn (or worse) in parts of the world that have abandoned "ambition"

Quote:

In Germany, Mercedes offers a "badge delete" option that strips the model designation off the trunk lid. It's a nod to European socialism, so factory workers won't key the CEO's 12-cylinder S65 AMG, thinking it could be a base S350 with the turbodiesel six. The S350 owner, sans badge, can also pretend he's in a model costing $20,000 more, merely by upgrading his rims.

But in America we like to show off our labels. You don't work 80 hours a week on Wall Street to be equal with the next luxury sedan.

http://www.boston.com/cars/newsandreviews/overdrive/2010/05/2010_mercedes-benz_s550_no_nee.html


TO an American, the sight draws a blank. All over Europe one sees cars, mostly from high-end companies, that wear no nameplates or model designations. Where we would expect to find a nametag of gleaming letters and numbers on the tail, there’s only an expanse of paint.

These nameless cars aren’t rare in Europe, either. If not in the majority, they are a sizeable minority.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/11/automobiles/11BADGES.html





...and thanks for all the nice comments.

Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: 69_SIX_PACK] #1529062
11/13/13 08:47 PM
11/13/13 08:47 PM
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Plymouth, MI
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Quote:

In Canada the Top 3 in terms of sales is Ford, GM and Chrysler. They're all fairly close. What are the Top 3 in the States?





GM, Toyota and Ford. Chrysler is usually 4th.


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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